Author Topic: Help with Rogue build pls  (Read 4946 times)

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Tanis

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Help with Rogue build pls
« on: February 24, 2010, 06:23:49 AM »
Hey all, just needing any advice on a rogue melee build I'm making for 3.5/Pathfinder. So far I'm a githzerai barbarian 1/ rogue 1, intending to buyout my LA (which is +1 for pathfinder) next lvl. I took barb 1 for the lion totem alt. class feature from CChamp. which gives the pounce ability. The theme is charge with TWF.

books allowed are: Core, Completes, XPH, MM 1-5, DMG, BoVD, BoED, Planar Handbook, ToB

FEATS:
TWF tree
Weapon Finesse
Shadowblade (ToB)
Neraph Charge (Planar HB)
Staggering Strike (CScoundrel)
??? Not sure what else would be good, any advice?

BUILD
Barb 1/Rogue 3/Swordsage 1/Rogue 4/Bloodclaw Master 2/Swordsage 2/Uncanny Trickster 3/???

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 06:34:32 AM by Tanis »

NiteCyper

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2010, 01:11:12 PM »
1. You started off with Barbarian? You want to start off with Rogue for the skill-points.
2. You have Barbarian in your "Rogue build"?
3. Githzerai is a "Rogue build"-race?

There's a difference between being a Rogue with combat capability and being a beat-stick with sneaking capability.

You didn't mention your stats.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 01:13:20 PM by NiteCyper »
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Tanis

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2010, 02:44:41 AM »
1. Pathfinder doesn't give *4 skill pts for 1st. lvl, so it doesn't matter when i take it, it was a role-playing fluff thing anyway, prob. wasn't the best as i don't have a full attack to take advantage of my pounce, but i thought the extra 4 hp would be handy, and the whirling frenzy rage alternate class feature i took (UA) gives a bonus to AC.

2. Yeh, IMHO it's the most efficient way to get pounce with the least effect on the playability at every level.  I thought about taking 4 lvls of Psychic Warrior (Psionic Lion's Charge), but that's 4 lvls with no SA.  The other alternative was 9th lvl initiator, too long to wait.

3. +6 Dex, +2 Wis, SR, Inertial Armour and Catfall, all good stuff.  Only +1 LA in Pathfinder and I'm buying it back at 4th lvl (UA). 
Dex is good for AC, Attack, Damage, Reflex.  Wis is good for AC (Swordsage), and Will.

Predominantly i'm going for a warrior that's good at sneaking, not so much the stereotypical pickpocket skill monkey (it's been done)

Modified stats are:
Str: 10
Dex: 24
Con: 16
Int: 10
Wis: 16
Cha: 7

Any help to make him as orsm as possible would be very cool  :)

NiteCyper

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2010, 05:37:20 PM »
1. I don't how to play Pafhtinder [sic], so it's good you fill me on on such things.

2. I know, but Rogues don't necessarily need it.

Weapon Finesse can be attained with a one-level dip in Swashbuckler, in which case check out the Arcane Stunt ACF from Complete Mage, but this may put a strain as a multi-class XP penalty.

The Hit-and-Run-Tactics Fighter ACF from DotU applies DEX to damage against opponents who are denied their DEX bonus to AC. The Survivalist Specialist Fighter from Dragon Magazine adds Hide and Move Silently to the Fighter's skill-list. The "Thug" Fighter ACF (UA) replaces Fighter bonus feats with SA.

Check out that floating thread called "Ego Whip sucks". Replace 2 SA dice for 1 point of CHA damage.
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Anklebite

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2010, 06:17:23 PM »
also, the daring outlaw (I think that's it) feat stacks up your swashbuckler and rogue stuff. enjoy being a full BAB sneak attacker. there is also one for fighter, I believe.


on a tangent, I enjoy making scout builds with both swift ambusher and swift tracker. shit gets funny. (and of course the barb pounce dip)
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Tanis

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2010, 01:42:49 AM »
1. I don't how to play Pafhtinder [sic], so it's good you fill me on on such things.

2. I know, but Rogues don't necessarily need it.

Weapon Finesse can be attained with a one-level dip in Swashbuckler, in which case check out the Arcane Stunt ACF from Complete Mage, but this may put a strain as a multi-class XP penalty.

The Hit-and-Run-Tactics Fighter ACF from DotU applies DEX to damage against opponents who are denied their DEX bonus to AC. The Survivalist Specialist Fighter from Dragon Magazine adds Hide and Move Silently to the Fighter's skill-list. The "Thug" Fighter ACF (UA) replaces Fighter bonus feats with SA.

Check out that floating thread called "Ego Whip sucks". Replace 2 SA dice for 1 point of CHA damage.

Cheers NC, that will prob. be my back up character if this guy fails a will save or something ;)

Swashbuckler 1/ Rogue 3/ Swashbuckler 2/ Swordsage 1/ Bloodclaw Master 2/ Swordsage 1/ Invisible Blade 5/ Uncanny Trickster 3/ ??? prob. Rogue 2

back on track, don't need Hit-and-Run-Tactics, cuz i have Shadowblade (dex dmg to every hit).  anything else i should know?

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2010, 01:44:03 AM »
back on track, don't need Hit-and-Run-Tactics, cuz i have Shadowblade (dex dmg to every hit).  anything else i should know?
No reason those shouldn't stack.
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Tanis

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2010, 03:45:22 AM »
From the FAQ p.9:

Does the Armor Class bonus ability from the monk,
swordsage, and ninja stack?
No, each of these abilities provides the same bonus. You
are not able to benefit from multiple sources that have the same
name more then once.

to quote Metallica: Sad but true.

NiteCyper

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2010, 04:09:06 AM »
They don't quote Moon-warded/Mystic Ranger, nor does Shadow blade have the same name as "Hit-and-Run Tactics".

The problem with the Monk, Swordsage, and Ninja "Armor Class bonus" abilities is that they are all called "AC Bonus". Are you picking up what I'm laying down?
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Tanis

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2010, 05:04:05 AM »
ok, what's Moon-warded/ Mystic Ranger? never heard of it.

the point i was making about the FAQ was that you are not able to benefit from multiple sources (monk, ninja, s/sage) that have the same name (wis) more than once.

so if you have more than one source (Shadowblade & H-A-R-T ACF) that apply the same damage (dex) i don't see how they can stack.
if i'm wrong please explain how, cuz otherwise i'll take it.

gorfnad

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2010, 05:31:07 AM »
ok, what's Moon-warded/ Mystic Ranger? never heard of it.
Mystic Ranger is from Dragon Magazine 336
Moon-Warded Ranger is from Dragon Magazine 340

the point i was making about the FAQ was that you are not able to benefit from multiple sources (monk, ninja, s/sage) that have the same name (wis) more than once.

so if you have more than one source (Shadowblade & H-A-R-T ACF) that apply the same damage (dex) i don't see how they can stack.
if i'm wrong please explain how, cuz otherwise i'll take it.
Hit and Run Tactics Fighter is an Alternate Class Feature that only applies the Dex mod to damage if the target is flat-footed and as a Competence bonus.
Shadowblade is a Feat  that only applies the Dex mod to damage on melee attacks.
These are two separate abilities from two different sources (one is a feat the other is a class feature).

The ninja/monk/swordsage/moon-warded ranger all get their AC bonus from a class ability that do not stack per the FAQ since it is all from a class feature.

Tanis

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2010, 05:45:00 AM »
Thanks for clarifying gorfnad.  i don't think my DM will allow Dragon Mag. stuff tho. 

Brainpiercing

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2010, 07:38:41 AM »
You can get another half of your dex damage with two feats: Wf(Crossbow), and Crossbow Sniper (PBHII, I think). You then apply both to your weapons with the Aptitude enhancement. It's sort of expensive, and only worthwhile if you really want to max your dex to damage.

A staple for TWF pouncers would be Keen Kukris and Blood in the Water, obviously.

Havok4

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2010, 06:03:14 PM »
You can get another half of your dex damage with two feats: Wf(Crossbow), and Crossbow Sniper (PBHII, I think). You then apply both to your weapons with the Aptitude enhancement. It's sort of expensive, and only worthwhile if you really want to max your dex to damage.


It also works well with hand crossbows due to the hand crossbow focus (DotU) which works as both weapon focus as rapid reload.

Tanis

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Re: Help with Rogue build pls
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 03:46:49 AM »
That's orsm.  Thanks for everyone's help, much appreciated.  :D