Author Topic: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions  (Read 7078 times)

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webdemon83

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New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« on: February 23, 2010, 11:02:03 PM »
Hello all,

I have a build in mind but im somewhat new to dnd and really need some suggestions. There is a very good chance this pc will last up to epics and I want to be viable all the way.

Changeling
Rogue 2 / Fighter 4 / Warlock 3 / Thief Acrobat 5 / Master Thrower 5 / Assassin 1

This is in no way an optimized build as I don't really know what im doing yet lol im still trying to work it all out, hence why im posting here. Please post with suggestions on the above build and/or suggestions on what can be done instead.  The PC is currently rogue 1 / fighter 3. The concept was to be an infiltrator via changeling and social skills.. get close, kill the target and assume the identity if needed. If things went bad, thief acrobat and spiderwalk invocation would let the pc stay away from melee while throwing daggers at any threats.  Assassin 1 is mostly for the basics of poison and death attack.. Help? 

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2010, 11:04:13 PM »
Three less levels in Warlock.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 11:15:15 PM by Solo »

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NiteCyper

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2010, 11:12:37 PM »
1. So, you're not stuck with Changeling or an Assassin-character?

2. "be an infiltrator via changeling and social skills.. get close, kill the target and assume the identity if needed."
You're playing Mercenaries?
re: identity-stealing: Spymaster? Assume Quirk, Hat of Disguise,

3. "If things went bad, thief acrobat and spiderwalk invocation would let the pc stay away from melee while throwing daggers at any threats."
Are you planning on always fighting where there are high walls around? And how many daggers are we talking here?

4. "Three less levels in Warlock"
Yeah, what's up with the levels in Warlock?

5. As a Changeling, there are two options I know that should definitely be considered: the "Able Learner" and "Racial Emulation" feats. You don't need "Racial Emulation" to nab "Able Learner" either as adaptation texts straight-up allow the Changeling access to that feat.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 11:15:31 PM by NiteCyper »
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bearsarebrown

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2010, 11:14:38 PM »
Death Attack sucks. Many things are immune, and those that aren't have good Fort saves.
Fighter past 2 sucks.
Changeling Rogue sub levels are amazing. Please tell me you took those.
Why Warlock 3? You can't use your hands while Spider Climbing anyways.
You can get poison usage in a feat. And is generally a poor choice at mid-high+ levels. Check out the Poison Handbook if you want to know more.
Thief Acrobat doesn't give much worthwhile.

"Get close and kill, if that fails then retreat to melee"
3.5e is a game of specialization. It's rare to have a character who is good at both ranged and melee. In almost every case it's worth more to commit to a single fighting style.

NiteCyper

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2010, 11:20:13 PM »
Options from the classes in your stub: Face, sneaky Warlock blasting-specialist, non blasting-specialized sneaky Warlock, full Rogue, Hit-and-Run Tactics Fighter variant, Survivalist DrM Specialist Fighter, dagger-thrower + Targetteer DrM Specialist Fighter, Assassin, some feat that stacks Rogue and Fighter levels Rogue-Fighter,

Can Changelings take different racial sub-levels with "Racial Emulation"? If so and good, Halfling Rogue racial sub levels?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2010, 11:22:50 PM by NiteCyper »
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webdemon83

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2010, 11:23:18 PM »
hmm, i see. the warlock levels were just to get spiderclimb for 24hrs. Taking it to lvl 3 was needed if figther was taken to 4 to avoid the xp penality. Fighter was taken to 4 for the extra 3 feats and to qualify for weapon specialization.  Where can I find these sub levels? The changeling race im using is from MM3.

Solo

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2010, 11:24:18 PM »
If you buy Boots of Spider Climbing, you won't need the invocation.

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webdemon83

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2010, 11:31:02 PM »
I was going to take master thrower and invisible blade in the beginning. Thats mostly why I went fighter so that I could get the extra feats in reasonable time. Figther 4 gives me 3 extra feats. Like I said, im new to building builds lol.

Solo

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2010, 11:35:46 PM »
Take more levels in Assassin, less in Thief Acrobat.

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DavidWL

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2010, 12:16:08 AM »
rogue 1/fighter 4/chameleon 10/anything you want 5
Probably much better, and helps salvage the fact that it starts as rogue 1/fighter 3/.

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Solo

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 12:39:56 AM »
He can't get the feat for Chameleon, though.

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Garryl

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2010, 12:42:14 AM »
He can't get the feat for Chameleon, though.

Yes he can. The sidebar (on the Able Learner page) indicates that Able Learner and the Chameleon PrC should be available to Changelings as well.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2010, 12:42:55 AM »
He can't get the feat for Chameleon, though.

As a changeling?  I beg to differ.  Able Learner is explicitly open to changelings and any other human subrace.

Now, somewhere on 339 (and here too IIRC) is a build that had the title "The Ultimate Assassin."  It was a wizard gish that hit 16 BAB/17 CL with mass SA potential and awesome skills (1 level of Factotum).  If I find the link, I'll edit it in here.
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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2010, 12:44:19 AM »
But he's already 4th level, and the feat can only be taken at first level.

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KellKheraptis

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2010, 12:55:49 AM »
But he's already 4th level, and the feat can only be taken at first level.

Hmm...retraining, PsyRef, or if it's not a fully formed character yet, just erase it and write it down at 1st?  So long as the game hasn't commenced, no reason it can't be retrofitted.

EDIT : Found it in my own post on 339, originally by zorgling.

Factotum 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 4/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 6

I'd go with the Changeling sub level on Wizard, and go Focused Specialist with it, then grab a Tome of Ancient Lore to make up the difference.  FS on dual spec will give you even more spell slots, and over time, anything lost (4 schools total) will be made up for by the ToAL having every spell, ever.  Roll in mirror move off of the wizards site for Dragoonery, Valkyrie form for maneuvers if ToB is your thing, or Planetar form if you like Cleric buffs, and above all else, play on your versatility.  You can literally become anything at will.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 01:24:07 AM by KellKheraptis »
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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2010, 03:13:04 AM »
1. re: Spider Climb: Up the Walls feat, White Cloak of the Spider, Slippers of Spider Climb, Chameleon template gives climb-speed,
2. @KellKheraptis: "FS" and "dual spec": the former means "Focused Specialist" and the latter means "dual specialization"? I don't know the latter.
3. Changeling-exclusive PrC: Recaster.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2010, 03:17:27 AM »
2. @KellKheraptis: "FS" and "dual spec": the former means "Focused Specialist" and the latter means "dual specialization"? I don't know the latter.

It's the changeling wizard sub level for 1st level.  Specialize in two schools instead of the usual one, give up another school.  Give up a fourth to become a focused specialist, and laugh maniacally as it's benefits are bestowed twice.  Once all your spells are transmutations, that means you've lost nothing and gained a net 3 spell slots per level (more than a sorc at 7/level ending).  Spiffy IMHO.  The same trick is used by Sor0 I believe in his Batman Changeling.
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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2010, 02:29:52 PM »
Technically, Dual Specialization can't be taken with Focused Specialist, because the first replaces the class feature the second augments. If your DM lets you, though, it should be fun. Assuming you like losing 4 Spell Schools, of course...

Unless you regain the spells by expanding your spell-list or are some sort of Shadowcraft Mage, this probably isn't a good idea.
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Re: New to min/max, Changeling Assassin? Need Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2010, 08:28:55 PM »
If your DM feels Changeling qualifies like Alter Self or Polymorph then ...

Psion 1 with Practiced Manifester feat and Metamorphic Transfer feat later, get 3/day (su) abilities. Lots of versatility.
Or be a 1/2 ML per HD race, or take a [host] feat and wait around to do the above.
Possibly retrain a lower feat at 12th level into the [host] feat, and take MT feat at 12th.