De-Buffer

[JanusJones]

[Surreal]

Could we get the sources on some of those abilities? I don't recognize stench of the dead or insane defiance or filthy outburst. And is the Unseelie from one of those online articles?

[AfterCrescent]

I don't know about the other ones, but Unseelie Fey is from Dragon Compendium

[JanusJones]

Stench of the Dead is a spelltouched feat from UA.

Insane Defiance and Filthy Outburst are from Elder Evils, which somehow lots of folks have overlooked.  A source of PHENOMENAL goodies.  I did a little review on it here . . . <EDIT: Argh, Gleemax sucks . . .>

Unseelie Fey is, indeed, from Dragon Compendium.

I know so much nowadays that I sometimes forget to cite sources on stuff.  Sorry!   

[BowenSilverclaw]

Very nice, JJ 

~Bowen

[altpersona]

i only count 15 levels,

so you have room for marshal? to motivate those numbers?

[Sunic_Flames]

And Dreadful Wrath is Player's Guide to Faerun. Frightful Presence? Seriously? What the hell were they thinking?

Edited because I answered my own question.

[JanusJones]

Yeah - I didn't follow the entire build through.  Any thoughts on my last 5 levels?  I should stat it out level by level to check the penalties as they progress - should be good fun all around.

Let's see . . . Motivate Charisma wouldn't actually help, since no Cha checks are involved - just Cha-based DCs.  On the other hand, a Veil of Allure from Sandstorm would do the trick nicely . . .

Tell me any other things you come up with - let's polish this lil' diamond up!

[Akalsaris]

Well, here's what I see:

1. You want your opponents to be unable to escape your area of effect.  So Thicket of Blades, tripping, etc. would be good. 
2. You still have your swift actions left.  There's got to be something you can do with those, right?  MIC almost always has something worthwhile if your class levels fill up. 
3. You're a hexblade, so you can also Hex them 1/day for another -2 to saves.  Even at high levels, with your Cha you might succeed.  Taking another 3 levels of Hexblade would make it -4 and give you 2/day.  Hexbands from the MIC would add +1 to the Hex DC and give you Cha to damage against those foes 5/day, which might be worth it.  Maybe.
4. You'll need a high initiative to pull this off reliably, and preferably a way to grant your ally a high initiative as well.  If you can get a few eternal wands of Nerveskitter, an eager weapon, etc, it will probably help a lot.
5. Negative levels, Dex/Con/Wis penalties, etc, might be a solid way to lower those saves even more.
6. Since you're going to be going the vile route, swear your soul to an Elder Evil for bonus vile feats!   Can't go wrong with more feats, right?  Until Cthulhu calls you up anyhow.

[altpersona]

necropolitan and soul eater?

[JanusJones]

Well, here's what I see:

1. You want your opponents to be unable to escape your area of effect.  So Thicket of Blades, tripping, etc. would be good. 
2. You still have your swift actions left.  There's got to be something you can do with those, right?  MIC almost always has something worthwhile if your class levels fill up. 
3. You're a hexblade, so you can also Hex them 1/day for another -2 to saves.  Even at high levels, with your Cha you might succeed.  Taking another 3 levels of Hexblade would make it -4 and give you 2/day.  Hexbands from the MIC would add +1 to the Hex DC and give you Cha to damage against those foes 5/day, which might be worth it.  Maybe.
4. You'll need a high initiative to pull this off reliably, and preferably a way to grant your ally a high initiative as well.  If you can get a few eternal wands of Nerveskitter, an eager weapon, etc, it will probably help a lot.
5. Negative levels, Dex/Con/Wis penalties, etc, might be a solid way to lower those saves even more.
6. Since you're going to be going the vile route, swear your soul to an Elder Evil for bonus vile feats!   Can't go wrong with more feats, right?  Until Cthulhu calls you up anyhow.

Hadn't thought about Hexblade curses.  The DC isn't going to be a problem - by the time I'm next to them, it's been boosted by around +20 or more by the penalties. 

Of COURSE I'm swearing my soul to an Elder Evil!  I hardly thought it worth mentioning - I mean, doesn't EVERYBODY?  Bonus feats from a sweet list, and all you have to do is LOVE on some crazy critter who doesn't actually ask you to DO anything?

I'm THERE.

[EjoThims]

Of COURSE I'm swearing my soul to an Elder Evil!  I hardly thought it worth mentioning - I mean, doesn't EVERYBODY?  Bonus feats from a sweet list, and all you have to do is LOVE on some crazy critter who doesn't actually ask you to DO anything?

I'm THERE.

The list of feats for swearing to an elder evil never really impressed me much, since the only options are the Vile Feats in that book.

Though it provides some nice shuffle fodder without having to give up magic items.

[Sunic_Flames]

Nice shuffle fodder of course refers to that shun the dark chaos trick?

[EjoThims]

Nice shuffle fodder of course refers to that shun the dark chaos trick?

But of course. And it's even easier to justify when devoted to an Elder Evil.

[JanusJones]

Of COURSE I'm swearing my soul to an Elder Evil!  I hardly thought it worth mentioning - I mean, doesn't EVERYBODY?  Bonus feats from a sweet list, and all you have to do is LOVE on some crazy critter who doesn't actually ask you to DO anything?

I'm THERE.

The list of feats for swearing to an elder evil never really impressed me much, since the only options are the Vile Feats in that book.

Though it provides some nice shuffle fodder without having to give up magic items.

d00d.

Check it again.  Abyss-bound soul is in that book as a bonus feat, and they don't have any particular abyss-bound soul options for elder evils.

In other words, break out the Fiendish Codex and GO TO TOOOOWN!

And the feats in that book?!  Immunity to mind-affecting effects?  Cha mod to saves with a standard action every 5 rounds?  +8 to a roll of your choice, 50% chance of working?!

Surriously.  That book is made of WIN and AWESOME.

[Kuroimaken]

Shun the dark chaos? What is this you speak of?

Man, I hate being left out of the loop. We should put up a list of dastardly combos and tricks on this board. I recall there being two "world record" threads back on Gleemax, but I think they vanished...

[dman11235]

From Fiendish Codex I, two spells Embrace and Shun the Dark Chaos let you trade feats permanently for abyssal heritor feats and for any feat, respectively.  So they aren't vile feats, they're any feat.

[EjoThims]

d00d.

Check it again.  Abyss-bound soul is in that book as a bonus feat, and they don't have any particular abyss-bound soul options for elder evils.

In other words, break out the Fiendish Codex and GO TO TOOOOWN!

And the feats in that book?!  Immunity to mind-affecting effects?  Cha mod to saves with a standard action every 5 rounds?  +8 to a roll of your choice, 50% chance of working?!

Surriously.  That book is made of WIN and AWESOME.

Those are the only three I would ever take unless I had feats to burn, and only situationally anyway (like on a Cha heavy build that can afford to lose a standard action every 5 rounds or a FB that I don't want to have to pump the will save on).

None of them strike me as anything to make sure I get. They're all just things that'd be nice to have, but not worth going out of my way for. 

Even Abyss Bound Soul (if you use the Fiendish Codex version instead of the EE version that they forget the table on), uses up 3 of your 5 bonus feats, though with an UnberCharger the double damage charge is amazing, I'll grant you.

[Akalsaris]

Well, you're hardly going out of your way for them in this case, right?  And I agree the feats aren't always worth it, but they're pretty solid choices.  Though I usually assumed that since Elder God options aren't given, the Abyss-bound soul's benefits depends on your GM.  Although I guess some demon lords are pretty close to elder evils, like Dagon.

Also, for this debuffer the Elder Evil feats include several deformity feats that boost your Intimidate, and one that gives you a mini-frightful presence for lower level foes.  So that's 3 intimidate checks against lower-level foes who are vulnerable to fear. 

[JanusJones]

d00d.

Check it again.  Abyss-bound soul is in that book as a bonus feat, and they don't have any particular abyss-bound soul options for elder evils.

In other words, break out the Fiendish Codex and GO TO TOOOOWN!

And the feats in that book?!  Immunity to mind-affecting effects?  Cha mod to saves with a standard action every 5 rounds?  +8 to a roll of your choice, 50% chance of working?!

Surriously.  That book is made of WIN and AWESOME.

Those are the only three I would ever take unless I had feats to burn, and only situationally anyway (like on a Cha heavy build that can afford to lose a standard action every 5 rounds or a FB that I don't want to have to pump the will save on).

None of them strike me as anything to make sure I get. They're all just things that'd be nice to have, but not worth going out of my way for. 

Even Abyss Bound Soul (if you use the Fiendish Codex version instead of the EE version that they forget the table on), uses up 3 of your 5 bonus feats, though with an UnberCharger the double damage charge is amazing, I'll grant you.

You iz SO WRONG.  I'ma make a character JUST to prove it, too.