d2 Crusader vs Deathless Frenzy. Discuss.

[Mixster]

Yeah, the guy with Deathless Frenzy takes infinite damage, shrugs, decapitates the Crusader and then (barring outside interference) explodes a bit later.

Does getting a bucket stuck on his head count as "outside interference?"

Yes, because he's too busy murderin' to remember he needs to drown himself in order to live. So somebody else'll have to do it.

Well, he could just keep on murdering untill he drowns in a pool of blood, his own or someone elses it doesn't matter, he would go back to 0 HP.

Although, claiming to drown when you are dead is kindda hard.

[Zemyla]

Use crisis of breath instead.  The psion manifests it on the frenzied berserker.  The berserker deliberately fails his Will save, acts, delibrately fails his Fort save, and goes to 0.  It doesn't say "drops to 0", it says "If a subject fails a Fortitude save, it is disabled (0 hp)."  Then the psion dispels the crisis of breath on his next round, and the frenzied berserker is fine.  This gets around the whole "You can't stop from dying" clause that normal drowning suffers from.

[Epimetheus]

Masochism Potion on the Deathless Frenzy. Next round, once the Crusader's weapons break from overuse... Deathless Frenzy wins.

Actually, I'm not clear about something. How does the d2 Crusader avoid rolling natural 1's? That alone would end the infinite cycle, and lead to a crushing retaliation from a Full Power Attacking (at 3x str mod?) Deathless Frenzy.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Your rolls of 1s count as 2s.  Thus, no natural 1s.

[Bozwevial]

Your rolls of 1s count as 2s.  Thus, no natural 1s.

Imbued Healing feat with Luck.

[Epimetheus]

Oh! So that's how. Nice.

[skydragonknight]

Aptitude Shurikens and Boomerang Daze?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Aptitude Shurikens and Boomerang Daze?

Can't melee with shuriken.

[skydragonknight]

True. I do remember it being a small gauntlet in the original thread I started at Gleemax. Rereading Aura of Chaos I see the clause for 'melee attack'...and stabbing people with shurikens only really works in Naruto.

Luckily boomerang daze doesn't specify melee/ranged so an aptitude gauntlet would work just as well for a halfling crusader.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

It's worse than that.  Shurikens explicitly forbid you from melee attacking with them.

That's right.  They actually bothered to say that.

[Agita]

It's worse than that.  Shurikens explicitly forbid you from melee attacking with them.

That's right.  They actually bothered to say that.

Even WotC hates Narutards. A few years in advance, too. I'm impressed by that uncommon show of foresight. Or maybe it was just a fluke.

[BackHandOfFate]

d2 Crusader wins.  It's pretty easy to hit someone once and teleport or get away somehow before they can react.

What level would these characters be?  Aura of Chaos was a 6th level stance if I'm not mistaken, and the earliest it can be obtained is lv12 via Martial Stance feat.  So are we assuming both characters are level 12?  Or is this a lv20 thing?

[Endarire]

Done correctly, a Crusader/Swordsage/Master of Nine can get Aura of Chaos at L11.

[McPoyo]

Or even earlier if you use bloodlines shenanigans.

[Midnight_v]

d2 Crusader wins.  It's pretty easy to hit someone once and teleport or get away somehow before they can react.

What level would these characters be?  Aura of Chaos was a 6th level stance if I'm not mistaken, and the earliest it can be obtained is lv12 via Martial Stance feat.  So are we assuming both characters are level 12?  Or is this a lv20 thing?

... whatever...
Too many variables exist to honestly decide.

[BackHandOfFate]

d2 Crusader wins.  It's pretty easy to hit someone once and teleport or get away somehow before they can react.

What level would these characters be?  Aura of Chaos was a 6th level stance if I'm not mistaken, and the earliest it can be obtained is lv12 via Martial Stance feat.  So are we assuming both characters are level 12?  Or is this a lv20 thing?

... whatever...
Too many variables exist to honestly decide.

True, many variables do exist.  What are the conditions that these two cross paths?  What level of preparedness do they have?  What means of surviving the encounter do they have at their disposal?  It seems like it comes down to which condition for victory is easiest to achieve.
(More on this later)

[bkdubs123]

I posit that the universe screeches to a halt at the Crusader's will.

Why?

Well, what actions can anything in the universe take while the Crusader continues to roll its infinite damage? Why, immediate ones of course, but then things only get one of those, and we're talking about a few billion immediate actions against infinite dice rolls. Once the everything in the universe that is even capable of taking an immediate action has taken its action, the Crusader will still be rolling damage.

Why?

Well, if he stops, the Frenzied Berserker's still alive, right? The moment the Crusader stops rolling damage he's arrived at a finite number, and he's completed his action. And if he ever does that he's screwed, because the Berserker's gonna tear him in half six ways to Sunday. So the Crusader better damn well not stop rolling his damage. And if he doesn't stop... nothing else ever happens. The Universe freezes in time as long as the Crusader wills it.

[Tshern]

One could just kill the Berserker with the immediate action and thus stop the damage. Like with a Celerity combo of somekind.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I posit that the universe screeches to a halt at the Crusader's will.

Why?

Well, what actions can anything in the universe take while the Crusader continues to roll its infinite damage? Why, immediate ones of course, but then things only get one of those, and we're talking about a few billion immediate actions against infinite dice rolls. Once the everything in the universe that is even capable of taking an immediate action has taken its action, the Crusader will still be rolling damage.

Why?

Well, if he stops, the Frenzied Berserker's still alive, right? The moment the Crusader stops rolling damage he's arrived at a finite number, and he's completed his action. And if he ever does that he's screwed, because the Berserker's gonna tear him in half six ways to Sunday. So the Crusader better damn well not stop rolling his damage. And if he doesn't stop... nothing else ever happens. The Universe freezes in time as long as the Crusader wills it.

I time hop to the next round.  What rolling?

[Epimetheus]

If we include items, there are lots of counters, right?

The Shadow Cloak (DotU) helps the Frenzied Berserker interrupt the infinite strikes.
The d2 crusader can also use an immediate action to do the same thing and then get away.