Most Overrated PrCs

[bearsarebrown]

stuff

I completely agree.

Sublime Chord is so difficult to work into a build because you get into so late.
MotAO, having to leave the slots open is blaaah. Just take Uncanny Forethought.
Rainbow Servant, I see the same thing. Except you can get entry by level 11. But still, if the game starts below 10, just be a Wizard.
Bear Warrior is only worthwhile if you to Fist of the Forest and the DM lets you use Wilding Clasps.

[Dragonamedrake]

My top picks:

Sublime Chord: I think it's overrated, since you don't qualify until 10th and it takes 48 skill ranks to get into the damned class, including 6R in profession (astrologer)...  It's not bad, but I don't see it as being anywhere near as flexible or strong as ur-priest, considering that you don't hit 9th level spells until 19th.

Mage of the Arcane Order: it's fine, and it adds a little flexibility to your wizard, but it takes 7 levels to get the full spellpool, and even then you need to leave slots unfilled and it takes a full-round action to call a spell.  Just little things that annoy me.  Especially when I could be taking so many other PrCs that fits my character's theme much better...

Rainbow Servant: the capstone kicks ass, but unless you're positive that you'll make it to at least 15th level in a campaign, it's a really mediocre PrC.  I see this mentioned a lot when people say they're starting a low level warmage, and it kind of irks me, because the complete awesome at the end doesn't justify playing through 14 levels of warmage first.

Bear Warrior: I see this mentioned a lot for barbarians, but without a lot of planning, the ability boosts from bear form often don't match up to having access to your magical equipment and magic weapons.  It's not terrible, but it shouldn't be part of many builds IMO.  Though I do like warshaper 4 along with this...

Sublime Chord.. Not very familiar but Ur-Priest are non good and cant worship a living God... alot of builds/DMs/Players cant use or dont like this. I dont believe this class has those restrictions or stigma among most DMs.

Mage of the Arcane Order... Agreed.

Rainbow Servant... wow .... completely disagree. If you dont like Warmage thats fine but look at what a Sorc can do with it. And it doesnt take lvl 15... you can and should hit the capstone of RS at lvl 11... and most games last through that lvl. If not then a whole mess of prestige classes loose thier appeal. Stating that short games dont benifit from a class shouldnt be an arguement against a class designed with 20 or more lvls in mind.

Bear Warrior... I agree, but then I dont really see this class raved about unless they are using it to get Warshaper. But I do agree this is a crappy prestige class 90 percent of the time.

Classes I find to be over rated...

Dragonfire Adept
Warlock

Unless they are in WLD I wouldnt give em a second look. Limited Utility for mediocre dmg you can use all day long... woopdie friggin do. Play a Wizard and learn to use scrolls, wands, and rods. Or better yet manage your spell use throughout the day and take a reserve feat if you cant.

[JaronK]

Mage of the Arcane Order: it's fine, and it adds a little flexibility to your wizard, but it takes 7 levels to get the full spellpool, and even then you need to leave slots unfilled and it takes a full-round action to call a spell.  Just little things that annoy me.  Especially when I could be taking so many other PrCs that fits my character's theme much better...

That class is usually called out as awesome for the Sorcerer, and it rightfully deserves the acclaim.  It gives Sorcs the utility spells of a Wizard.  On a Wizard it's meh, but I haven't seen many people saying it's awesome for Wizards, so I don't think it's overrated.

Rainbow Servant: the capstone kicks ass, but unless you're positive that you'll make it to at least 15th level in a campaign, it's a really mediocre PrC.  I see this mentioned a lot when people say they're starting a low level warmage, and it kind of irks me, because the complete awesome at the end doesn't justify playing through 14 levels of warmage first.

I have to agree here, especially considering the some translations list it as a 6/10 class, and my understanding is that what the class really is (10/10 or 6/10) was never properly clarified.  Sure by RAW it's 10/10 in the English version, but many DMs will balk... and I agree entirely that any class that isn't very good at all until its 10th level can't be that amazing.

As for Iron Heart Surge, it says you have to try to kill your party members.  Stopping and taking a standard action to drop Frenzy hardly counts.  Many DMs will balk at trying to do that.

JaronK

[Akalsaris]

I don't see rainbow servant being entered at 2nd level in most games, given that getting 3rd level spells for that requires at least 2 early entry tricks of your choice (sanctum spell and versatile spellcaster and heighten spell, for example), which is not the norm in most games and shouldn't really be the rubric to judge the PrC by, just as Dark Chaos feat-shuffling away racial bonus feats shouldn't be automatically assumed as a solution to feat requirements for crud like Master Protector. 

If you do use cheesy entrances then I agree, a lot of games go 11th-15th and that makes Rainbow Servant more appealing.  Though you still have to work finding the hidden jungle temples of the coatls at 1st level into your backstory!

I agree that locks/DFA's tend to be a little overhyped on other boards, but I like the classes personally.  Very simple to play and decent flavor.

[Dragonamedrake]

As for Iron Heart Surge, it says you have to try to kill your party members.  Stopping and taking a standard action to drop Frenzy hardly counts.  Many DMs will balk at trying to do that.

JaronK

You have to attack someone each round... it doesnt say you have to take a full attack. A belt of Battle and you can attack and still take a standard to drop Frenzy. If a DM doesnt allow that then use Iron Heart Focus instead and roll that Will save twice. Our wizard always had a Force Cage preped for me just in case. If I cant attack anyone then i can certainly use a standard action.

Sure there are some small risk involved with a FB, but with the proper prep its not really going to be an issue unless your extreamly unlucky. Also Summoned Creatures told to attack the Frenzied Berserker works pretty well also. Its a percieved Threat above that of a party member imo... it is after all attacking you. There are a ton of ways around it.

I played a FB from 1st to about 26th lvl in a game... and I only killed on party member the entire game. I and the other Fighter type both charged an enemy wizard one fight .... he cast Force Cage and then teleports.... Well not only is the enemy gone but my budy just happened to be unlucky enough to be caught in a Force Cage with me. Now normally that wouldnt have been a problem as at the time I would have had to roll a one to fail my will save, but at the time I was at around -400 HP. It was either I save and die, or attack him and hope the cleric reached us. I chose the later and it worked out for me but not so much for my budy... he was a small red stain by the time the cleric got there.

All in all the party loved me. In epic the cleric created a perm group shield other spell that soaked 100 percent of the dmg. It was cast on the entire party. I soaked 100 percent of the dmg for the entire party... come to think about it after that was cast I never had to attack another party member. If I had I could of just soaked up whatever I had caused.... hehe.

[JaronK]

I played a FB from 1st to about 26th lvl in a game... and I only killed on party member the entire game.

Says it all, really.  You could have had basically as much damage, and probably more utility, and never killed your party mate had you not gone FB.

JaronK

[Anklebite]

is it wrong to feel this happy that people remember your early warsnake trick?  


I have to disagree with the arguments against Iot7V though.  the veils block amf as an immediate action, and you can use the 10ft radius bubble on yourself to stop beatsticks from hitting you.  may have to use a different shape to deal with reach weapons, but really; when is it melee attacks that casters have problems with? amf and dispel blocking are more powerful, in my opinion.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

I don't see rainbow servant being entered at 2nd level in most games, given that getting 3rd level spells for that requires at least 2 early entry tricks of your choice (sanctum spell and versatile spellcaster and heighten spell, for example), which is not the norm in most games and shouldn't really be the rubric to judge the PrC by, just as Dark Chaos feat-shuffling away racial bonus feats shouldn't be automatically assumed as a solution to feat requirements for crud like Master Protector.  

If you do use cheesy entrances then I agree, a lot of games go 11th-15th and that makes Rainbow Servant more appealing.  Though you still have to work finding the hidden jungle temples of the coatls at 1st level into your backstory!

I agree that locks/DFA's tend to be a little overhyped on other boards, but I like the classes personally.  Very simple to play and decent flavor.

Well, if you become a necropolitan (as any dread necromancer entry will), you only need a single early entry trick.

That said, I find that getting access to the good domain is really underrated for dread necromancers.  Magic circle is one of the major lacks in their spellcasting.

[RobbyPants]

I guess it depends on what you mean by overrated.  I could see throwing Frenzied Berserker on the list for CO builds, but if you're looking at non-CO players, there are other PrCs that they jump all over without realizing how terrible they are.  A lot of them are Core:

Assassin - people seem to think that you need to wait until you're sixth level and write "assassin" on your character sheet to be able to kill people in a sneaky manner or something.  Adding insult to injury, the signature ability of the class pretty much sucks.  Play a rogue.  Or a caster.

Dwarven Defender - it seems that a lot of dwarf fighter-type builds I see end up with this PrC.  It's like they see "dwarf" written on their character sheet, and that there exists a class in the DMG called "dwarven defender" and they think these two things go together like Kahlua and cream.  Pfff.  More like skittles and beer!  Oddly enough, I don't see too many elf = arcane archer builds.  Maybe it's because it's not called "Elven Archer".  I don't know.

Blackguard - okay, this concept is cool, but the PrC sucks.  Just write "evil" on your character sheet and play a real class.

Duelist - actually, I don't see too many of these builds posted, but in a core-only game, some people get the idea that this is what you have to do if you want to be a swashbuckler.  Cross off "fighter" and "duelist" off your character sheet and just keep "rogue" and call it a day.  You have all the same flavor, and you only suck half as much.

[snakeman830]

Classes I find to be over rated...

Dragonfire Adept
Warlock

Unless they are in WLD I wouldnt give em a second look. Limited Utility for mediocre dmg you can use all day long... woopdie friggin do. Play a Wizard and learn to use scrolls, wands, and rods. Or better yet manage your spell use throughout the day and take a reserve feat if you cant.

This I do not agree with.  For one, I've never seen these classes rated highly, so overrating them would be tough.

Two, their invocations may not be as strong as spells, but there are a couple of incredibly useful ones.  They're pretty good as dip classes (Warlock especially for Detect Magic at-will and a number of 24-hour buffs).  Warlock's best class feature comes at level 4, but loses interest as levels increase.  Even Warlock 12 can be worthwhile (after that, you get no new class features, so find a full casting PrC).

[Anklebite]

any class that can take out multiple iron golems at level1 gets my vote. so really, DFA is not overrated.  they are, in fact, quite acurately rated.

[Dragonamedrake]

I played a FB from 1st to about 26th lvl in a game... and I only killed on party member the entire game.

Says it all, really.  You could have had basically as much damage, and probably more utility, and never killed your party mate had you not gone FB.

JaronK

lol maybe we play different types of games... the wizard in our group had a much larger body count by 26. And if thats all you took from my response... not considering the length of the game, the crazy situtation that caused me to have to kill a party member, or the fact that I could go several hundred HP in the negative, sometimes in the thousands... soaking every single point of dmg for the whole party and still survive... and from all that you take " well see I was right you killed a party member!". Well then Im just beating my head against a wall. You think they are overated and I disagree lol.

DFA are good at what they do, but in practice I think they arent as great as everyone thinks. I dont think I would ever take a Lock or DFA over a Caster in the group... unless again I was in some type of WLD type of game where we didnt really get down time or Craft time.

[Sinfire Titan]

any class that can take out multiple iron golems at level1 gets my vote. so really, DFA is not overrated.  they are, in fact, quite acurately rated.

But I can do that with a 3rd level Wizard. you know, the class that Golems were designed to specifically defeat (and failed miserably at)?

Sublime Chord.. Not very familiar but Ur-Priest are non good and cant worship a living God... alot of builds/DMs/Players cant use or dont like this. I dont believe this class has those restrictions or stigma among most DMs.

Nothing about Ur-Priest says they cannot worship a Deity (alive or not). It's a bit of fluff text that says they steal their spells from deities and that other Divine Casters loathe them for doing so, but nothing prevents them from worshiping a deity like Hextor or Wee-Jas.

Bear Warrior... I agree, but then I dont really see this class raved about unless they are using it to get Warshaper. But I do agree this is a crappy prestige class 90 percent of the time.

You've clearly never played a Totem Rager then. Bear Warrior 3 is the next logical step in that build.

[SorO_Lost]

Nothing about Ur-Priest says they cannot worship a Deity (alive or not). It's a bit of fluff text that says they steal their spells from deities and that other Divine Casters loathe them for doing so, but nothing prevents them from worshiping a deity like Hextor or Wee-Jas.

Or Orcus. Which pretty much sums up how things go in the abyss. Take it if you think you can.

[ninjarabbit]

Bear warrior + psi-warrior/warmind + expansion = really big bear

[Akalsaris]

Sure, but with the right equipment/race (like...a reach weapon...) half the time you'd probably be better off just being a huge psywarr anyhow. 

Sinfire, I've never played an incarnum character, but I'm sure a totemist/barbarian/totem rager/bear warrior/warshaper kicks ass.  But it's mostly the other 4 parts of the build pulling the real weight in there, especially with incarnum stuff being slightly less item-dependent than most classes. 

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

The other option is Radiant Servant of Pelor.  Yeah, you don't lose anything but a few hitpoints, and that's fine, and it's a solid choice... but what you gain is the ability to use in combat cures a little better.  Since when have in combat cures been something worth cheering about?  By the time your ability to cast really awesome cures comes around, you've already got Heal.

ZOMG YOU ARE SO RIGHT

I have been saying this for quite a while now. Everytime its a "I need ultimate healor build" thread and someone mentions that stupid class. IT DOESN'T WORK LIKE EVERYONE THINKS IT DOES [/rant]

undead will simply cease to exist in your presence (and that's without using any turn attempts)

Turns are cheap.

BBEGs should be turn-immune. And you still have to freaking make the check. Your better off rebuking and I have the build to prove it 

[The_Mad_Linguist]

RSoP isn't the best, but it is pretty much cleric+.  I've only seen it recommended for people who don't want to change their playstyle.

[Wings of Peace]

Dervish.  I'm sure there's alot of cool stuff you can do with it but there's there's other cool things I can do that don't have a /day limit with those levels.

[KellKheraptis]

Dervish.  I'm sure there's alot of cool stuff you can do with it but there's there's other cool things I can do that don't have a /day limit with those levels.

If all they're fixated on is the Thousand Cuts, then yeah, considering you can do that once or more per round with the right build in ToB.  Dervish Dance is where it's at for damage, though.