Cay You Retrain BONUS FEATS?

[sir_argenon]

for instance, the first level wizard bonus feat is scribe scroll, and ONLY scribe scroll.. could i retrain that later to say for instance... toughness?  for another example 2nd lvl thaumaturgist.. could i retrain augment summoning to.... improved initiative?

[skydragonknight]

Retraining rules are in the PHB2. AFAIK, the results of your retraining must be legal. So you can retrain Scribe Scroll for say an Alternative Class Feature - Martial Wizard from Unearthed Arcana comes to mind - but the resulting character has to be one that could have developed legally from the ground up.

Outside of retraining, there is the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle which can trade any feat for any other you currently qualify for, if you don't mind paying some XP.

[Agita]

Arguably, Psychic Reformation may work as well. Both it and DCFS are pretty cheesy, though. Why would you want Toughness instead of Scribe Scroll, anyway?

For getting Improved Initiative, there is an ACF in UA that lets you take Fighter bonus feats instead of Wizard bonus feats. Augment Summoning is pretty neat if summoning is what you're into (which it probably is if you have levels in Thaumaturge).

[snakeman830]

Arguably, Psychic Reformation may work as well. Both it and DCFS are pretty cheesy, though. Why would you want Toughness instead of Scribe Scroll, anyway?

He's also got levels in Archivist?  Yeah, 3 hp is crap, but it's better than absolutely no benefit.

[sir_argenon]

thanks for the replies.. so you can retrain something that was an option from the onset.. but not something entirely new.. got it.  and i wasnt neccesarily said that i would take toughness.. i was just using it for an example thanks again...

[NiteCyper]

I'll just leave this here...

Argh! DCFS was already mentioned...

How about some sort of absurd rebuilding to Sublime Chord base and retraining your feats to what you'd be able to get with Sublime Chord as your base class?
Do PrCs still give (X+INT)*4 if it's rebuilt to your base class? o.o

Reference(s):
The True Dilettante - http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866566/The_True_Dilettante__New_Feat_Record__504_feats&post_num=28
 Player's Handbook II - Character retraining/rebuilding - http://yfrog.com/hqphbii191ch8px

[KellKheraptis]

I'll just leave this here...

Argh! DCFS was already mentioned...

How about some sort of absurd rebuilding to Sublime Chord base and retraining your feats to what you'd be able to get with Sublime Chord as your base class?
Do PrCs still give (X+INT)*4 if it's rebuilt to your base class? o.o

Reference(s):
The True Dilettante - http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866566/The_True_Dilettante__New_Feat_Record__504_feats&post_num=28
 Player's Handbook II - Character retraining/rebuilding - http://yfrog.com/hqphbii191ch8px

Nitecypher, remind me to PM you when I do my rebuilt Chameleon base

[Azrael]

In that case then the soulknife has a use afterall.

If the only purpose for using the class is feat gain through retraining (such as a fusion/psychic reformation char...like my sig), then a human soulknife essentially gets 4 feats at first level...hello 100 1st level soulknife believers...give to me your 400 feats.

edit: A human cleric that gains two feats from their domains would be just as effective. What are some good stackable feats that I could use with this?

[awaken DM golem]

I like skydragonknight's answer.
PsyRef allows the re-picking of a feat / feat-slot , but you can't put anything there, that you couldn't have done in the first place.
Dark Chaos (both) use different language.
iirc - any feat can be re-done into whatever, with it.

1st level Soulknife doesn't have a lot of options, just multiple Hidden Talents via the Mind's Eye update, for retraining or PsyRef;
whatever Azrael is angling toward, could be done with DCFS.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

In that case then the soulknife has a use afterall.

If the only purpose for using the class is feat gain through retraining (such as a fusion/psychic reformation char...like my sig), then a human soulknife essentially gets 4 feats at first level...hello 100 1st level soulknife believers...give to me your 400 feats.

edit: A human cleric that gains two feats from their domains would be just as effective. What are some good stackable feats that I could use with this?

In that case, elves are even better.

[Azrael]

In that case, elves are even better.

lol, 7 feats :3

Well, I would say that you cant retrain it if you don't currently qualify for it (obviously). If you do, I cant see why not.

[PhaedrusXY]

In that case then the soulknife has a use afterall.

If the only purpose for using the class is feat gain through retraining (such as a fusion/psychic reformation char...like my sig), then a human soulknife essentially gets 4 feats at first level...hello 100 1st level soulknife believers...give to me your 400 feats.

edit: A human cleric that gains two feats from their domains would be just as effective. What are some good stackable feats that I could use with this?

In that case, elves are even better.

What about elven soulknives? (with uranium katanas)

[The_Mad_Linguist]

In that case then the soulknife has a use afterall.

If the only purpose for using the class is feat gain through retraining (such as a fusion/psychic reformation char...like my sig), then a human soulknife essentially gets 4 feats at first level...hello 100 1st level soulknife believers...give to me your 400 feats.

edit: A human cleric that gains two feats from their domains would be just as effective. What are some good stackable feats that I could use with this?

In that case, elves are even better.

What about elven soulknives? (with uranium katanas)

They're totally 0verpowered what with their concealed weapon.

[Azrael]

lol

[McPoyo]

Plus, they can shape their soulknife into a greatsword, which totally bypasses the fact that they cannot physically wield a greatsword!