Author Topic: Marrulurk- Gaining as many attacks with as much bonus damage as possible [3.5]  (Read 17686 times)

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VennDygrem

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I'm now trying to focus on building up a Marrulurk as a viable combatant for this situation, and require the ability to gain more attacks with more bonus damage (adding to the Marrulurk's innate sneak attack damage, boosting strength bonus to thrown weapons, or whatever I can get). Being invisible or hidden as much as possible will also help.

So, BowenSilverclaw is going to be running an Eberron-adapted 'Red Hand of Doom' campaign on the PbP boards soon. The most I know about this is that I'll be up against a ton of Hobgoblins, some giants, and dragon(s), and that there is at least one massive army encounter.

Character creation rules are as follows:
Quote
Basic rules:
-I would prefer a non-evil party, makes things a lot easier for me and fits the campaign better IMHO
-5-man party maximum (haven't decided on how I decide who's in yet, will get back to that later if there's enough interest)
-Starting ECL 5 (campaign will most likely end around level 11 or 12)
-36 PB
-Standard WBL
-2 Flaws allowed
-2 Traits allowed
-Pretty much all 3.5 and unupdated 3.0 material allowed (if I don't have it, I would appreciate it if you could post/PM/e-mail the relevant text)
-Gentleman's agreement: if you use it, the enemy can use it as well.
-There won't be much downtime available for stuff like crafting and whatnot, so if you want to play an Artificer or something, make sure you've got a Dedicated Wright and a portable laboratory or something
-The party will start out somewhere in (Eastern) Breland, probably away from any major cities.


Some basics about the NPCs/changes:
-Basic non-monstrous opponents will be mostly goblinoids.
-NPCs will be rebuilt from the ground up (classes, feats, skills, equipment etc.), because frankly, WotC's standard NPCs suck.
Furthermore, so far it seems like Dragon material is allowed, and that homebrew content is banned. Bloodlines are allowed, but the bloodline levels must still be accounted for as normal. Class adaptations however are fair game.
LA-buyoff is also allowed.

So, my first thought was to start with a base of Binder (I figured being a Binder with at least access to 3rd level vestiges could mean Lesser Mechanatrix bound to Focalor for unlimited out-of-combat self-healing. ;)), since most of their abilities can go all day, and they can switch each day if need-be. I then figured maybe Anima Mage could be good, giving a caster some much-needed staying power since long days and little rest is expected, and having those binder powers on top of spellcasting would do that well. I went with Beguiler as a base for the skills/hp/flavor, as well as for sheer number of spells/day. Wizard will probably be best now.
[spoiler]
However, now I'm not so sure. The beguiler has a few good self-buffs and a couple of party-buffs, and a bunch of enemy debuffs, but most of their spells affect single targets. I know I'm going to be going up against large quantities of enemies, so that's not optimal. I also tried figuring out how to pull off an Ardent/Binder/Psionic Anima Mage, but couldn't quite seem to get it going.

So I'm in the dark as to how best to proceed. Whatever I go with needs to have staying power, and be fun to play. I think I still want to go with Binder as a base (I might even be open to just going full Binder/KoSS), but I'm not locked into it. Mostly I'd like to try something I haven't played before, though that's an entirely too-broad spectrum.
[/spoiler]

So far, the rest of the party consists of a Crusader, a Dragonfire Adept (BFC via entangling and slow breath), a Conjurer going for Malconvoker, and a Warblade.

Any suggestions on what would make me viable, and capable of withstanding several encounters per day without rest, and also fill any needed party roles? The consensus seems to be that we need high damage output, though I think multi-target damage is important as well.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 02:20:31 AM by VennDygrem »

NiteCyper

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Re: Staying power [3.5]
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2010, 03:13:32 PM »
Powerful class adaptations to consider: arcane Swordsage and the non-racial "Shadowcraft Mage" prestige class.

addendum: 31-01-2010, -8 GMT, 10:14, I hear the Swiftblade PrC ((CM) WE) is a neat choice for an arcane Swordsage.

addendum 2: 31-01-2010, -8 GMT, 10:16, how's death? Are you afraid to try something new also because of an unforgiving DM?

addendum 3: 31-01-2010, -8 GMT, 10:17, FYI, what you're asking for is too general. You haven't told us what you would like to play, and although I'm inexperienced, without you, it doesn't look like the team would be missing much except for a skill-monkey. Skill-monkeys seem to be tools though, not characters.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 03:18:54 PM by NiteCyper »
Caveat: I edit my posts, ever and anon after.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Staying power [3.5]
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 03:19:45 PM »
Maybe go with that Anima Mage, but with Wizard instead of Beguiler?

More toolbox- and multi-target-goodies, and being Int-based means you still get a decent amount of skill points.
Pick up a Reserve Feat for some minor mook-blasting after you've laid down your one or two combat-ending GOD-spells?
You can also go Focused Specialist for more spell slots per day, and coordinate with Nanshork for who picks what spells so it won't cost the party anything in terms of versatility.

If you go this route, maybe a 3-level dip in Incantatrix to keep your most important/potent defenses up all day, hence costing less spell slots and thus increasing your staying power?


EDIT: Basic stub would look something like Wizard 2/Binder 1/Anima Mage 3/Incantatrix 3/Anima Mage +3 (Anima Mage 6 total).
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 03:23:01 PM by BowenSilverclaw »
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VennDygrem

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Re: Staying power [3.5]
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2010, 04:41:07 PM »
Thanks for the help so far. As for not saying what I want, I laid out that I want something that has the potential to survive several large encounters per day without running out of juice. A straight-up wizard can accomplish this, but generally runs low on spells at the end of the day without some way to keep going, like the reserve feats, particularly at low levels. Combat types (melee or ranged) generally don't rely on that as much, nor do classes like warlock, DfA, etc, since their abilities are at-will; however, the latter classes are generally low on power and are best left to the fifth-man role, unless properly optimized. I also mentioned that using Binder as a base of power was desired. Regardless, I don't believe it was too general, just to get some suggestions for ideas. I wasn't looking for a full build to be made for me. I should have specified that.

@Bowen: I'll probably go with that idea. I was leaning away from a caster mainly because I've played so many of them in my real-world games lately, but it seems the group could use one anyway, since Nanshork's focused on summoning it seems. This thread was mainly to see if I could get some extra suggestions on possible avenues from a wider audience, and to not clutter the interest thread with this stuff.

The only problem with adding in Incantatrix is I'll be limited to Level 4 vestiges then, unless there's some other way to boost my EBL. Doubt it, but I'll still have at least a little versatility up my sleeve.
------
hmm, another reason I went with Beguiler is they can cast in light armor, which saved me from having to spend a spell slot on mage armor. :/
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 05:13:54 PM by VennDygrem »

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Staying power [3.5]
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2010, 05:25:46 PM »
Thanks for the help so far. As for not saying what I want, I laid out that I want something that has the potential to survive several large encounters per day without running out of juice. A straight-up wizard can accomplish this, but generally runs low on spells at the end of the day without some way to keep going, like the reserve feats, particularly at low levels. Combat types (melee or ranged) generally don't rely on that as much, nor do classes like warlock, DfA, etc, since their abilities are at-will; however, the latter classes are generally low on power and are best left to the fifth-man role, unless properly optimized. I also mentioned that using Binder as a base of power was desired. Regardless, I don't believe it was too general, just to get some suggestions for ideas. I wasn't looking for a full build to be made for me. I should have specified that.

@Bowen: I'll probably go with that idea. I was leaning away from a caster mainly because I've played so many of them in my real-world games lately, but it seems the group could use one anyway, since Nanshork's focused on summoning it seems. This thread was mainly to see if I could get some extra suggestions on possible avenues from a wider audience, and to not clutter the interest thread with this stuff.

The only problem with adding in Incantatrix is I'll be limited to Level 4 vestiges then, unless there's some other way to boost my EBL. Doubt it, but I'll still have at least a little versatility up my sleeve.
------
hmm, another reason I went with Beguiler is they can cast in light armor, which saved me from having to spend a spell slot on mage armor. :/
Githcraft Mithral Chain Shirt, Mithral Chahar-Aina, Mithral Dastana and a Thistledown Suit.

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Just costs you some gold :)
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VennDygrem

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Re: Staying power [3.5]
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2010, 05:27:48 PM »
Yeah, I just remembered about that stuff. It'll just be pricey, and honestly I don't know what the access to treasure or bought items will be in this campaign.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Staying power [3.5]
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2010, 05:29:30 PM »
Yeah, I just remembered about that stuff. It'll just be pricey, and honestly I don't know what the access to treasure or bought items will be in this campaign.
Not much Magic Shops (tm), but I'll adjust the treasure to fit the characters some more :)

And later one there will be some shopping opportunities as well.


So no need to worry about gear availability too much.
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

Quote from: J0lt
You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

Surreal

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Re: Staying power [3.5]
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2010, 05:35:35 PM »
Master of Shrouds - might as well turn that goblin army into your own army of shadows
Dragonfire Adept - what's better than one burninator? TWO burninators :D
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2010, 05:37:58 PM »
EDIT : Only if you don't go Anima Mage :

[spoiler]If BoEF is allowed, you can cheese into Metaphysical Spellshaper at 3rd level (even easier at 4th, when you have 2nd level spells to raise from being Wiz 3).  Wiz 2 or 3/MP SS 3/Incantatrix 3 for a start, gets an absolute fuckton of metamagic abuse, a metric fuckton of mitigation, and is full caster all the way through.[/spoiler]

Changed the title mid-reply on me :P
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VennDygrem

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Re: Staying power [3.5]
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2010, 05:39:14 PM »
Dvati Dragonfire Adept - what's better than one burninator? THREE burninators :D
Fixed that.  :lmao

EDIT : Only if you don't go Anima Mage :

[spoiler]If BoEF is allowed, you can cheese into Metaphysical Spellshaper at 3rd level (even easier at 4th, when you have 2nd level spells to raise from being Wiz 3).  Wiz 2 or 3/MP SS 3/Incantatrix 3 for a start, gets an absolute fuckton of metamagic abuse, a metric fuckton of mitigation, and is full caster all the way through.[/spoiler]

Changed the title mid-reply on me :P
Sorry.
And that book... BoEF, that's not what I think it is, is it?  :P
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 05:41:19 PM by VennDygrem »

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2010, 05:40:34 PM »
No BoEF.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Staying power [3.5]
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2010, 05:44:11 PM »
Dvati Dragonfire Adept - what's better than one burninator? THREE burninators :D
Fixed that.  :lmao

EDIT : Only if you don't go Anima Mage :

[spoiler]If BoEF is allowed, you can cheese into Metaphysical Spellshaper at 3rd level (even easier at 4th, when you have 2nd level spells to raise from being Wiz 3).  Wiz 2 or 3/MP SS 3/Incantatrix 3 for a start, gets an absolute fuckton of metamagic abuse, a metric fuckton of mitigation, and is full caster all the way through.[/spoiler]

Changed the title mid-reply on me :P
Sorry.
And that book... BoEF, that's not what I think it is, is it?  :P


Yep, but the class in question has nothing to do with the "EF" part.  Now barring that, retrain at level 6 to Wizard 3/Incantatrix 3, and progress Incantatrix til maxed.  Can't get much better than that, and if you expect rocket tag, keep it at Wiz 3 for the Elven sub level and a hummingbird.  If you're not or they're not allowed, down to Wiz 1/Incanta Rest.
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2010, 05:47:42 PM »
Dvati Dragonfire Adept - what's better than one burninator? THREE burninators :D
Fixed that.  :lmao

EDIT : Only if you don't go Anima Mage :

[spoiler]If BoEF is allowed, you can cheese into Metaphysical Spellshaper at 3rd level (even easier at 4th, when you have 2nd level spells to raise from being Wiz 3).  Wiz 2 or 3/MP SS 3/Incantatrix 3 for a start, gets an absolute fuckton of metamagic abuse, a metric fuckton of mitigation, and is full caster all the way through.[/spoiler]

Changed the title mid-reply on me :P
Sorry.
And that book... BoEF, that's not what I think it is, is it?  :P


Yep, but the class in question has nothing to do with the "EF" part.  Now barring that, retrain at level 6 to Wizard 3/Incantatrix 3, and progress Incantatrix til maxed.  Can't get much better than that, and if you expect rocket tag, keep it at Wiz 3 for the Elven sub level and a hummingbird.  If you're not or they're not allowed, down to Wiz 1/Incanta Rest.
That's rebuilding, not retraining (and no, that's not allowed :P)

Also, Elven sub levels don't work that way ;)
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2010, 05:51:54 PM »
[spoiler]That's me! I'm the DFA![/spoiler]

You could go into that one BoED class that lets you be a bear. But I'm just saying that because I like it, not because it's good.

That's all I got.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2010, 05:59:41 PM »
Dvati Dragonfire Adept - what's better than one burninator? THREE burninators :D
Fixed that.  :lmao

EDIT : Only if you don't go Anima Mage :

[spoiler]If BoEF is allowed, you can cheese into Metaphysical Spellshaper at 3rd level (even easier at 4th, when you have 2nd level spells to raise from being Wiz 3).  Wiz 2 or 3/MP SS 3/Incantatrix 3 for a start, gets an absolute fuckton of metamagic abuse, a metric fuckton of mitigation, and is full caster all the way through.[/spoiler]

Changed the title mid-reply on me :P
Sorry.
And that book... BoEF, that's not what I think it is, is it?  :P


Yep, but the class in question has nothing to do with the "EF" part.  Now barring that, retrain at level 6 to Wizard 3/Incantatrix 3, and progress Incantatrix til maxed.  Can't get much better than that, and if you expect rocket tag, keep it at Wiz 3 for the Elven sub level and a hummingbird.  If you're not or they're not allowed, down to Wiz 1/Incanta Rest.
That's rebuilding, not retraining (and no, that's not allowed :P)

Also, Elven sub levels don't work that way ;)

We've had this little discussion before ;)  They only don't spell out "all benefits the familiar grants the familiar's owner" because the ones they list are all they grant outside of Dragon Mag familiars.

EDIT : And where is it mentioned Rebuilding isn't allowed?
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 06:02:46 PM by KellKheraptis »
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VennDygrem

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2010, 06:05:06 PM »
EDIT : And where is it mentioned Rebuilding isn't allowed?

He's the DM. He gets to add new stipulations, even if it's here instead of the game thread. :P
----
Hmm, I wonder if I could gain Wings of Flurry on my spell list by taking the Extra Spell feat. that would help clear out some mooks. ;)
Still, there are other ways that I'm sure are just as good...
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 06:07:38 PM by VennDygrem »

KellKheraptis

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2010, 06:07:55 PM »
EDIT : And where is it mentioned Rebuilding isn't allowed?

He's the DM. He gets to add new stipulations, even if it's here instead of the game thread. :P

Oh...my bad :P  Probably best to ignore anything I post then...I don't want him e-punching you (or me for that matter) in the face lmao
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2010, 06:32:06 PM »
Did you look at the handbook yet? I have a build on the last page you might check out: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866226/Anima_Mage_Handbook?pg=7
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

VennDygrem

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2010, 06:36:32 PM »
Did you look at the handbook yet? I have a build on the last page you might check out: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866226/Anima_Mage_Handbook?pg=7

Bowen seems to be against letting me into PrC's at level 3, so I'd probably have to make some alterations to such a build. :D
Plus, it's much better if you assume one is going to 20th level, otherwise I don't think standard ScM trickery will be of much use.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 06:39:02 PM by VennDygrem »

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Suggestions for an Anima Mage [3.5]
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2010, 06:45:25 PM »
Did you look at the handbook yet? I have a build on the last page you might check out: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866226/Anima_Mage_Handbook?pg=7

Bowen seems to be against letting me into PrC's at level 3, so I'd probably have to make some alterations to such a build. :D
Plus, it's much better if you assume one is going to 20th level, otherwise I don't think standard ScM trickery will be of much use.
Well... that build is mostly "mature" at 10th level, but yeah... you're probably better off just going with a simpler build and taking a reserve feat...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]