Author Topic: Experimental Gestalt!  (Read 4548 times)

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TheEndIsNear

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Experimental Gestalt!
« on: January 30, 2010, 10:57:26 AM »
Hey guys I've been wondering about a gestalt build that does two things:

War Weaver + Legacy champion for weaving 9th level spells.
Druid + many Animals/animal companions.

Due to my house rules this wont be the same as what is possible for you guys but I'm wondering what you could do. Idealy persisting the "Bite of the XXX" spells would be good same with the 9th level buff spell.

If possible I'd like all the animals to have the same stats but I understand if there is more than one AC it probably won't be possible.

You guys know how to do that?

Kuroimaken

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2010, 11:03:10 AM »
Hmmm. The problem with a build like that is that gestalt doesn't allow for PrCing on both sides. If you could get something that advances both spellcasting AND gives you more animal companion HD to play with, it should be doable - but that means giving up on the War Weaver side. Druids aren't my specialty though, so I wouldn't know the best way to go about their ACs.
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2010, 11:10:01 AM »
Well PRCing on both sides is allowed for me (houserules) but having something that advances the same thing on both side will only allow you to count up to your ECL. For example a Sorcerer5/incantrix 10/fighter 5//Binder5/Anima Mage10/Rogue5 will cast as a level 20 sorcerer, not 25 or 15. If he takes another level of fighter//rogue he'll cast as a level 21 sorcerer.

So XXX 5/War Weaver 5/Legacy Champion 6/XXX 4//Druid 5/Beast master 10/Druid 5 would work. (made up build not sre about prerequisits/classes or anyhting....

Kuroimaken

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2010, 11:30:39 AM »
In any gestalt build where your DM is crazy enough to allow PrCing on both sides, remember that most PrCs' benefits are often more useful earlier rather than later. Therefore, you should avoid PrCs with Feat-intensive prerequisites.

Though I'm guessing you have most of your work cut out for you, since that restriction would have been the biggest challenge.
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2010, 11:38:31 AM »
So would that be the build? what would be the thing to lead me into War weaver?

Kuroimaken

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2010, 11:43:56 AM »
So would that be the build? what would be the thing to lead me into War weaver?

Anything of your choice, really. Wizard tends to be the most common choice since the majority of the really great buffs are transmutation and are made readily available to Wizards. I can't remember whether War Weaver allows you to progress any spellcasting class or arcane only though, so Cleric would be a good alternative (decreases MAD, can apply DMM to the druid spells as well since they're also divine, similarly good buff access including domains).

Again, the thing you need to watch out for the most is a feat-intensive build.
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2010, 11:58:18 AM »
I don't really worry about feats as we have a fighter like feat progression instead of a normal one. But I can't relly on having/using any magic items.

First of all: War weaver is arcane oly and I like sorcerer more than wizard... Maybe I could try to use the generic caster classes and only use buff spells (I think that'd work). Too bad I can't use spells that have a range of personal in there (Is the a way to get by this? can occular spell or reach spell do it?)

Kuroimaken

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2010, 01:03:56 PM »
I don't really worry about feats as we have a fighter like feat progression instead of a normal one. But I can't relly on having/using any magic items.

First of all: War weaver is arcane oly and I like sorcerer more than wizard... Maybe I could try to use the generic caster classes and only use buff spells (I think that'd work). Too bad I can't use spells that have a range of personal in there (Is the a way to get by this? can occular spell or reach spell do it?)

Hmmm. Personally I'd go with Wizard due to the wider spell selection (as well as the specialist ACFs - Abrupt Jaunt is just too yummy to pass up) but this is your character. Fighter-like feat progression means your DM just gave himself a headache.  :D

The problem with using sorcerer is that it delays War Weaver entry (unless you have some trick like Eldritch Corruption or Versatile Spellcaster + Heighten spell). Given that you have more feats than an usual character has available though, that shouldn't be a problem. Using Sorcerer means you'll have to be pretty careful with your spell selection, unless you plan on picking up a PrC or something along the way to expand it. Consider that, by using an early entry trick such as Eldritch Corruption, you free up to two levels you could use for something else (since the minimum level of entry for WW that way is 3). I'll check up on animal lord and see if there's something that can be done to speed up entry too.

EDIT: Hmmm. Nothing much can be done in that regard, unless you forgo a level on either side and pick up a level of Fighter to get "full" BAB progression.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 01:05:57 PM by Kuroimaken »
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2010, 01:19:29 PM »
Ok but for the "animals" What would be a good choice? Get extra animal companions from a prestige class? What about controling undead animals? They'd all be equal?

Actaully, Screw anomals and druid. Can't I just use animal squeletons and buff them? They'd all be equal? Would it work, basicly an army for 4-5 guys?

EDIT: CAn you be undead and animal? Is one a subtype?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 01:24:10 PM by TheEndIsNear »

Kuroimaken

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2010, 01:32:00 PM »
You can't be both. However, if you wanted undead minions, you should look into Cleric builds. Fairly sure there's plenty of them going around. Heck, in a gestalt game, Yathrinshee might actually work for you.
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2010, 01:36:16 PM »
Yathrinshee? Whats that?

I liked animals because they had the best buffs but undead because they are easier to replace/keep on the same level. (My bear skeleton "died"? *takes human, kills him, takes his skeleton "polymorph any object" here, new bear skeleton*. I like the idea of the war weaver and the minions that is all I don't really care what they are... I don't want a horde, maybe 6 maximum, 4 would be best.

Kuroimaken

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2010, 02:44:55 PM »
Yathrinshee? Whats that?

I liked animals because they had the best buffs but undead because they are easier to replace/keep on the same level. (My bear skeleton "died"? *takes human, kills him, takes his skeleton "polymorph any object" here, new bear skeleton*. I like the idea of the war weaver and the minions that is all I don't really care what they are... I don't want a horde, maybe 6 maximum, 4 would be best.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
My Unitarian Jihad Name is: Brother Katana of Enlightenment.
Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2010, 03:10:55 PM »
I don't really see anything that I can gain from that class. I don't want a horde and that is the only good thing about the class...

War Weaver 5/ legacy champion 5 seem a definite. Maybe generic arcanecaster 10 for a few buffs and on the other side some undead creating/buffing classes maybe with harm and tomb tainted soul for everyone healing...

EDIT: I'd like spelldancer 1 for persist maybe... Weaving and dancing, letting the monsters do their things.

With the expanded feats I probably won't need gestalt just generic arcanecaster 9/spelldancer 1/warweaver 5/ legacy champion 5 with only buffs and undaed creating spells XD.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2010, 03:40:41 PM by TheEndIsNear »

Kuroimaken

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2010, 05:49:16 PM »
You can always pad the other side of the gestalt with something like, say, Paladin, to boost your saves/HD/BAB etc.. It's not necessarily optimal, but it's a way to go.

Spelldancer is good, but be careful of fatigue and whatnot.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2010, 06:33:21 PM »
If you are persisting spells and you do it in the morning, it doesnt really matter. I realised something. Undead don't get all the bonuses to con scores animals could get from buffs. Won't that mean they'll lose alot? Does that make animals better? Can't I train animals? But that takes a long time... What do you suggest?

Kuroimaken

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2010, 07:36:01 PM »
If you are persisting spells and you do it in the morning, it doesnt really matter. I realised something. Undead don't get all the bonuses to con scores animals could get from buffs. Won't that mean they'll lose alot? Does that make animals better? Can't I train animals? But that takes a long time... What do you suggest?


Undead all have D12 HD, so that shouldn't be a problem, actually. There's a feat, I think the name is Corpsecrafter, which gives any undead you create a bonus to Str and to their HP... not much, but it goes a long way. The Dread Necromancer also gains a similar ability, but he's not on par with the Cleric as far as undead control is concerned.
Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

For proof, look here:

http://www.layoutjelly.com/image_27/gendo_ikari/

[SPOILER]
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
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Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2010, 07:56:22 PM »
If you are persisting spells and you do it in the morning, it doesnt really matter. I realised something. Undead don't get all the bonuses to con scores animals could get from buffs. Won't that mean they'll lose alot? Does that make animals better? Can't I train animals? But that takes a long time... What do you suggest?


Fell energy spell is the feat you want.  All undead effected by your spells add 2 to any "bonus" they get.
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TheEndIsNear

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2010, 08:04:45 PM »
The corpse crafter feats I find all sub par unless you are doing an army of mooks and fighting an army of mooks, I have a special part in my heart for destructive retribution, it seems so cool! Plus usefull with mooks.

How would Destructive retribution interact with a swarm? Count HD of the swarm or of all the creatures inside? XD

Fell energy might help if i do alot of smell buffs. Maybe...

TheEndIsNear

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2010, 05:23:57 PM »
bump

Endarire

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Re: Experimental Gestalt!
« Reply #19 on: February 01, 2010, 05:27:24 PM »
What about using Handle Animal to get a buncha animal pets?
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