Author Topic: Shadows Abound  (Read 2972 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Ed-Zero

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
Shadows Abound
« on: January 28, 2010, 05:19:00 AM »
Lately I've been thinking about this character concept a bit. It's a pretty simple one: Get as many shadows as I can or things that look & function almost like shadows. I would actually prefer to not have them have the ability to spawn when they kill but I guess that's up to the DM as I really don't want to break the game or keep track of the 500 things i'll have floating around, which really wouldn't be that hard of a sell. I really like the imagery of shadows coming up through the floor attacking relentlessly.

Daelkyr Half-Blood Master of Shadow

prc's that have to do with shadows:
master of shrouds - Libris Mortis
Shadowdancer - Pathfinder version
Master of Shadow 10 (Tome of Magic)

Symbiote: Shadow Servant

Feats for Shadow Familiar from Master of Shadow:
Quicken Manifest (LM) - allows you to manifest as a free action
Ghostly Grasp (LM) - allows the incorporeal undead to hold weapons
Lifesense (LM) - allows character to sense the living through walls in 60 area

I'm having a hard time deciding how to build a guy to have the most out of those 3 classes (unless there's more I missed somewhere).

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2010, 11:06:38 AM »
You could go with a psion specialising in astral constructs...

If you were using Tome I'd suggest using Thrallherd to pick up some believers and giving them the vampire template, with a level of vampire paragon as their first level. (reflavour gaseous form to transforming into shadows).
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 11:14:26 AM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Ed-Zero

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2010, 02:23:30 PM »
You could go with a psion specialising in astral constructs...

If you were using Tome I'd suggest using Thrallherd to pick up some believers and giving them the vampire template, with a level of vampire paragon as their first level. (reflavour gaseous form to transforming into shadows).
The reason I chose Shadows and not constructs is because of their natural Incorporeality.. No Thrallherd or Leadership.

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2010, 02:34:08 PM »
I don't remember Lifesense working through walls. It just makes living creatures glow like light sources, making it basically impossible for them to hide from you.

I'm not familiar with the Master of Shadow PrC, but I have built several characters using the Master of Shrouds PrC. There is a handbook on that in the handbooks section of this board.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

altpersona

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2939
  • BG forum Emperor Ad Litem
    • Altpersona.net
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2010, 02:44:56 PM »
i dont see why an incorporeal creatures life sense, would not work through walls. wtf does a shadow care about a wall?
The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga sux.


PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2010, 02:55:45 PM »
i dont see why an incorporeal creatures life sense, would not work through walls. wtf does a shadow care about a wall?
Just because they can walk through them doesn't mean they can see through them. In fact, they explicitly can't. In the rules somewhere, it says that an incorporeal creature can attack while inside of a wall, but their target has concealment relative to them.

Edit: Rules quote:
Quote
It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object.

Lifesense does not lift this restriction.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

altpersona

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 2939
  • BG forum Emperor Ad Litem
    • Altpersona.net
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2010, 03:10:44 PM »
fair nuff
The goal of power is power. - idk
We are not descended from fearful men. - Murrow

The Final Countdown is now stuck in your head.

Anim-manga sux.


Ed-Zero

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2010, 04:01:29 PM »
i dont see why an incorporeal creatures life sense, would not work through walls. wtf does a shadow care about a wall?
Just because they can walk through them doesn't mean they can see through them. In fact, they explicitly can't. In the rules somewhere, it says that an incorporeal creature can attack while inside of a wall, but their target has concealment relative to them.

Edit: Rules quote:
Quote
It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object.

Lifesense does not lift this restriction.
Ahh, my mistake.. Still, it's a pretty good feat for the shadow to take. Yeah, i've seen the Master of Shrouds handbook and thats why i'm debating on what would be best.. The Master of Shadow makes your familiar into a incorporeal shadow construct that gains abilities like a familiar.

With a Daelkyr-Half Blood Wizard 5/Master of Shadow 10/Shadowdancer (Patherfinder version) 3 that would give 3 permanent shadows but theres probably a better way to do it. (although the shadow sibling doesn't have incorporeal sadly)

Brainpiercing

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1475
  • Thread Killer
    • Email
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2010, 07:41:02 PM »
The Master of Shadow makes your familiar into a incorporeal shadow construct that gains abilities like a familiar.

Uh... no, it's an elemental and gains abilities like an animal companion (bonus HD and stuff). But whatever, that's not the real issue with Master of Shadow: It requires a feat to enter (Shadow Familiar, which isn't that great by itself), which requires three levels of Shadowcaster. Sure Master of Shadow advances spellcasting, too, but there just isn't a sensible way to enter.

Now a sensible DM might allow you to enter with a normal familiar that wears a Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis, because Shadow Familiar only gives a Dark templated Familiar. Which... is just expensive, but not nearly as bad.

For real shadows, take Master of Shrouds and any early entry trick you can get by your DM, and follow the handbook.

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2010, 11:02:14 PM »
The reason I chose Shadows and not constructs is because of their natural Incorporeality.. No Thrallherd or Leadership.
I can see a "shadow" (assuming you don't mean the D&D creature in particular, since you said you don't want spawn) slipping under doors but not entering a sealed room. Gaseous form fits while incorporeality doesn't, and these creatures will also be harmed by light.

What's wrong with thrallherd? If you're using Tome material anyway you could take the Path of Blood feat (or Whispers of the Otherwold, which gives you actual shadows).
« Last Edit: January 28, 2010, 11:04:28 PM by Prime32 »
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2010, 12:12:09 AM »
What's wrong with thrallherd? If you're using Tome material anyway you could take the Path of Blood feat (or Whispers of the Otherwold, which gives you actual shadows).
The Tome of Magic is a WotC book, not a Frank and K homebrew.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Prime32

  • Administrator
  • Organ Grinder
  • *
  • Posts: 7534
  • Modding since 03/12/10
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2010, 12:29:17 AM »
What's wrong with thrallherd? If you're using Tome material anyway you could take the Path of Blood feat (or Whispers of the Otherwold, which gives you actual shadows).
The Tome of Magic is a WotC book, not a Frank and K homebrew.
I know that - I mentioned reflavouring Tome vampires in my last post.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

PhaedrusXY

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8022
  • Advanced Spambot
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2010, 12:34:15 AM »
What's wrong with thrallherd? If you're using Tome material anyway you could take the Path of Blood feat (or Whispers of the Otherwold, which gives you actual shadows).
The Tome of Magic is a WotC book, not a Frank and K homebrew.
I know that - I mentioned reflavouring Tome vampires in my last post.
My point is that they aren't using Tome material, that I see. The only Tome I saw mentioned was the Tome of Magic.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Ed-Zero

  • Barbary Macaque at the Rock of Gibraltar
  • ***
  • Posts: 183
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2010, 10:44:11 PM »
Quote from: Brainpiercing
Uh... no, it's an elemental and gains abilities like an animal companion (bonus HD and stuff). But whatever, that's not the real issue with Master of Shadow: It requires a feat to enter (Shadow Familiar, which isn't that great by itself), which requires three levels of Shadowcaster.
Wow, I totally missed that. They should have made it accessible to anyone at 3rd level with a familiar. That's pretty horrible then. If you can get that fixed with your GM then you shouldn't have a problem.

The worst part about it, that you already brought up is that you lose the familiar traits. I'm guessing there's no way to keep those traits while becoming a shadow elemental. Then it would totally be worth it.

Quote from: Prime32
What's wrong with thrallherd?
There's nothing wrong with Thrallherd or Leadership, its just that 99% of the games I play in, they're strictly not allowed.

Akalsaris

  • Hong Kong
  • ****
  • Posts: 1143
    • Email
Re: Shadows Abound
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2010, 02:10:40 AM »
What's wrong with thrallherd? If you're using Tome material anyway you could take the Path of Blood feat (or Whispers of the Otherwold, which gives you actual shadows).
The Tome of Magic is a WotC book, not a Frank and K homebrew.
I know that - I mentioned reflavouring Tome vampires in my last post.
My point is that they aren't using Tome material, that I see. The only Tome I saw mentioned was the Tome of Magic.

If only Frank and K had named their series the Libram series, so much less confusion would have occurred!

Good luck with the shadow character, I wish I had something to add.  Maybe Binder for Tenebrous vestige?