Author Topic: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant  (Read 3991 times)

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BeholderSlayer

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Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« on: January 22, 2010, 06:46:56 PM »
All comments appreciated. I technically have two write ups for this character, one with Vow of Poverty and one without. My research regarding costly spell components and Vow of Poverty has come up with a lot of conflicting information. A lot of people say he can't have them, some people say it's okay. With the worst case scenario in mind, I decided against going with the Vows. For the sake of "simplicity," let us assume I can use the PHB, DMG, MM, PHB2, Complete series, BoED, and Races series. If you wish to make a suggestion not from these sources, please cite which book it comes from. I also have an MIC, but don't expect to be able to use it most of the time.

The idea is to be a powerful spell caster with the ability to melee via wildshape, polymorph and shapechange. The expensive focus for shapechange was really what made me drop VOP. Otherwise, I was taking VOP for the sake of flavor.

Thanks to all in advance.

Samuel Forestfriend
Neutral Good Human
32 Points
Deity: Ehlonna
3 Transmuter/3 Druid/10 Arcane Heirophant/4 Mystic Theurge

Ability Scores
STR - 8
DEX - 8
CON - 14
INT - 18
WIS - 16
CHA - 8

Important Skills
Concentration, Spellcraft, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Nature), Survival, Handle Animal, Knowledge (Religion)

Leveling Breakdown
1 - Druid - Improved Toughness;  Natural Bond
2- Wizard - Combat Wizard Variant: Improved Initiative; Banned Schools: Enchantment and Necromancy
3 - Druid - Companion Spellbond
4 - Wizard - +1 INT
5 - Druid -
6 - Wizard - Practiced Spellcaster (Wizard)
7 - Mystic Theurge -
8 - Mystic Theurge - +1 WIS
9 - Arcane Heirophant - Practiced Spellcaster (Druid)
10 - Arcane Heirophant -
11 - Arcane Heirophant -
12 - Arcane Heirophant - Natural Spell
13 - Arcane Heirophant -
14 - Arcane Heirophant -
15 - Arcane Heirophant - Minor Shapeshift
16 - Arcane Heirophant - +1 WIS
17 - Arcane Heirophant -
18 - Arcane Heirophant - Quicken Spell
19 - Mystic Theurge -
20 - Mystic Theurge - +1 INT
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 02:58:53 PM by BeholderSlayer »
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2010, 07:04:14 PM »
Would early entry with Precoscious Apprentice (IIRC it's in Complete Arcane, not sure...) be an option?
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2010, 07:10:18 PM »
Would early entry with Precoscious Apprentice (IIRC it's in Complete Arcane, not sure...) be an option?
Thanks for the suggestion, but I've looked at this early entry tactic and don't believe it would be allowed.
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Nunkuruji

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2010, 07:17:38 PM »
If Dragon is allowed Take a look at the Totem Variant Druid, as well as Alternative Source Spell feat.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2010, 07:36:34 PM »
What is your animal companion going to be? Arcane Heirophants can DECK OUT animal companions.

I suggest something without Bite or Claw attacks. Why? Bite of the Werebear will grant them.

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2010, 08:38:17 PM »
What is your animal companion going to be? Arcane Heirophants can DECK OUT animal companions.

I suggest something without Bite or Claw attacks. Why? Bite of the Werebear will grant them.

Just finished putting this together today, and haven't worked out the nitty gritty. I know the AH can deck out his companion, but I'm not sure what I should pick yet. Any suggestions?
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2010, 08:44:03 PM »
Just finished putting this together today, and haven't worked out the nitty gritty. I know the AH can deck out his companion, but I'm not sure what I should pick yet. Any suggestions?

I used Dire Elk. Hooves and Slams are nice.
Flashraker is a classic, but there are so many spells that will grant claws and bites it a bit redundant.

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2010, 08:49:10 PM »
Just finished putting this together today, and haven't worked out the nitty gritty. I know the AH can deck out his companion, but I'm not sure what I should pick yet. Any suggestions?

I used Dire Elk. Hooves and Slams are nice.
Flashraker is a classic, but there are so many spells that will grant claws and bites it a bit redundant.

Well, Bite of the Werebear will still at least upgrade the attacks, so it's not entirely redundant. IIRC, Werebear gives a 2d6 bite and 1d8 claws, which I'm pretty sure is higher than the Fleshraker's dice.
A dire elk with claws and bear-like teeth sounds terrifying, though.
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ninjarabbit

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2010, 09:33:20 PM »
I'd take a level of druid at level 1 for more hps and skill points,

I'd swap minor shapeshift for natural bond. Your swift actions should be taken up with spells like nervesketter and greater mirror image.

Speaking of swift spells I'd drop spell penetration for quicken spell for swift buffs.

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2010, 06:26:23 PM »
If Dragon is allowed Take a look at the Totem Variant Druid, as well as Alternative Source Spell feat.

If it's not, you can still use Southern Magician. In any case, never lose 3 levels of Spellcasting on BOTH sides.
Natural Bond is a good suggestion, and assuming you take your first level as a Druid (which you should), your Fighter Bonus Feat from Wizard 1 could be Improved Toughness, which helps you more in my opinion.
Spell Focus is rather useless, as you'll rarely use save based spells, and even then, it's not worth the feat.
There's a feat in Dragonlance Campaign setting that would make your Druid casting based on INT, so take that if you can.
Elder Giant Magic / Reserves of Strength each give +3 CL, and as such are worth a feat, and you should take one if not both (it's limited to out-of-combat use except in certain cases, but for long-duration buffs it's very good).
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Unbeliever

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2010, 07:11:22 PM »
If Dragon is allowed Take a look at the Totem Variant Druid, as well as Alternative Source Spell feat.

Where is this from?  Sounds interesting. 

Agita

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2010, 07:14:21 PM »
If Dragon is allowed Take a look at the Totem Variant Druid, as well as Alternative Source Spell feat.

Where is this from?  Sounds interesting. 
ASS is from Dragon 325. It basically allows you to make your arcane spells count as divine and vice versa in exchange for accepting a penalty to your CL.
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Alastar

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2010, 07:18:44 PM »
Your Build Doesn't work

Arcane Hierophant requires 4 BaB.

Your entry format gives you 3 only, you need another level of wizard or druid.

Agita

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2010, 07:24:24 PM »
Your Build Doesn't work

Arcane Hierophant requires 4 BaB.

Your entry format gives you 3 only, you need another level of wizard or druid.
Incorrect. He's taking two levels of Mystic Theurge before entering AC, which give him the extra +1 BAB he needs. The build stub at the top isn't in order.

EDIT: However, your stats look like you're two points over your pb budget.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2010, 07:29:33 PM by Agita »
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2010, 12:00:05 PM »

EDIT: However, your stats look like you're two points over your pb budget.
You are right, I must have left that 10 dex over from when I had the race tagged as Grey Elf. Fixed.
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BeholderSlayer

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2010, 12:06:10 PM »
I'd take a level of druid at level 1 for more hps and skill points,

I'd swap minor shapeshift for natural bond. Your swift actions should be taken up with spells like nervesketter and greater mirror image.

Speaking of swift spells I'd drop spell penetration for quicken spell for swift buffs.
This is a good idea, I think I'd rather swap it for spell focus. This way if I'm not casting buffs in the swift action from spells, I can buff my damage or (more likely) use the temporary hit points.

Could I not also switch a spell focus instead of Improved Init for Improved Toughness? I think I like that option better.

Dragon, Forgotten Realms, and Dragonlance I doubt would be allowed by my DM. Thanks for those suggestions, though. Keep 'em coming if you would, I appreciate the help.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 12:21:59 PM by BeholderSlayer »
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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2010, 12:41:00 PM »
After playing with a dire Tortoise in a lv12 campaign I can say its absolutely devastating!

Seeing what a animal growthed bite of the werebeared tortoise does to CR appropriate encounters is just awesome! Flight etc is naturally not a problem as you're sitting invisible on her back, enjoying the view, and starting appropriate spells when needed...

+ the added benefit of wild shaping into an octopus tree, tied down to your turtle lashing out with your vines while yelling VENASAUR!!!!!!

Probably not as good on lv20 but very classy none the less  :love

templer10

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2010, 01:08:58 PM »
there's plenty of good suggestions on what to get for the main char, but for an AH - it's just as importent to properly build the animal companion/famliar.

besides the obvios choices already listed here - if your DM is a bit liberal and allow you to to have Ape's be tool (i.e weapon) users - go with the ape/dire ape - and make it an AOO machince and/or with the mage slayer line and go to town. Thier pure damage potentialy is theoreticly lower then a fleshraker or something like that - but you can get it back by overcoming evemies defences and/or aoa created attacks.  

« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 01:42:19 PM by templer10 »

BeholderSlayer

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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2010, 03:01:25 PM »
there's plenty of good suggestions on what to get for the main char, but for an AH - it's just as importent to properly build the animal companion/famliar.

besides the obvios choices already listed here - if your DM is a bit liberal and allow you to to have Ape's be tool (i.e weapon) users - go with the ape/dire ape - and make it an AOO machince and/or with the mage slayer line and go to town. Thier pure damage potentialy is theoreticly lower then a fleshraker or something like that - but you can get it back by overcoming evemies defences and/or aoa created attacks.  


The ape has been thoroughly used by a friend of mine lately by his pure druid, so I think I'd rather steer toward something else. I was thinking at the lowest levels I'd take the wolf, then move to black bear and later brown bear. I know it's not the most optimized choices, most likely, but I think I should be able to still make it pretty powerful. What do you guys think?
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Re: Comment on my Arcane Heirophant
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2010, 03:06:56 PM »
there's plenty of good suggestions on what to get for the main char, but for an AH - it's just as importent to properly build the animal companion/famliar.

besides the obvios choices already listed here - if your DM is a bit liberal and allow you to to have Ape's be tool (i.e weapon) users - go with the ape/dire ape - and make it an AOO machince and/or with the mage slayer line and go to town. Thier pure damage potentialy is theoreticly lower then a fleshraker or something like that - but you can get it back by overcoming evemies defences and/or aoa created attacks. 


The ape has been thoroughly used by a friend of mine lately by his pure druid, so I think I'd rather steer toward something else. I was thinking at the lowest levels I'd take the wolf, then move to black bear and later brown bear. I know it's not the most optimized choices, most likely, but I think I should be able to still make it pretty powerful. What do you guys think?
Depends on how cheesy you want to get ;)

Brown Bear is decent, but for pure damage potential there isn't much that beats a Fleshraker paired with Venomfire :D
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