Dual 9ths worth Wildshape?

[BeholderSlayer]

I'm putting together a Wizard/Druid/Arcane Heirophant/Mystic Theurge. In the opinion of this forum is it worth giving up 9th level wizard spells for wildshape as a druid/arcane heirophant? Since Arcane Heirophant progresses wildshape as druid, this opens up a lot of versatility and power. I can still obtain 9th level druid and 8th level wizard spells if I progress druid to 5 for wildshape.

[bearsarebrown]

You are the master of your destiny. You do not make compromises.

In Magic of Faerun there is a 'Practiced Wildshaper' amulet. Have both.

[Agita]

Be a Divine Minion.

[BeholderSlayer]

You are the master of your destiny. You do not make compromises.

In Magic of Faerun there is a 'Practiced Wildshaper' amulet. Have both.

Hehe ok, thanks for that. Let us assume I can't use the amulet. What then?

[BeholderSlayer]

Be a Divine Minion.

Again, thanks for the advice. It's something to look into, but I don't think the LA will go over well.

What other options do I have?

[Agita]

Well, it really depends on what you'd prefer. Do you want to make your BSF cry? Then go with Wild Shape. If you want to take a more passive caster role and let your Familiar Companion make the BSF cry, then go with 9th level Wizard spells.
Really, you've got full casting in one tier 1 class and nearly full casting in another. At this point, you're already awesome. What kind of awesome you want to be is up to you.

Note: 9th level Wizard spells means Shapechange. Make of that what you will.
EDIT: So does ninth level Druid spells, though. So... yeah.

[bearsarebrown]

Then pick whichever you prefer. I know that sounds like an asshole answer but arguing which optimized tier 1 class is better doesn't matter. What type of game are you playing in? What's the rest of the party?

this level of optimization very quickly enters the area where you don't want to be that powerful, because the rest of the players will cry. Now, if they're all playing SCM, Cheaters, Twice Betrayers and Planar Shepards? Go Wildshape and Animal companion(I'm assuming if you go one route you'll go both). A strong animal companion can get straight ridiculous when you Share Spells with him. 9th level wizard spells are going to be slightly redundant with your druid casting, and if there are other wizards it's going to be really redundant.

[cru]

Well, Arcane Hierophant progresses wild shape even if you don't make it to druid 5. Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10 has 13 effective wildshape levels, i.e. tiny to large forms, animals and plants, 13 HD. Not bad. Plenty of good forms. Two more levels would net you huge forms. Huge forms are improvement, but you probably could live without them. As an arcane hierophant, you probably have lots of spells to cast and not much time to rip asses personally. Plus on highest level, there is shapechange. Imho 13 HD should be enough. You could take dragon wildshape and pick some versatile, mobile and durable dragon form; small & medium dragons don't have too many HD anyways.

[BeholderSlayer]

No, you don't sound like an asshole at all. I greatly appreciate the advice, even if it's just "whatever you want will work."

It looks like Wildshape it is then, because it fits the character's personality/background/vision best. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making a poor choice.  I knew Druids got Shapechange, so I figured it might be a toss-up. I am glad to know it is. Thanks for the tips guys, I appreciate it very much.

[BeholderSlayer]

Well, Arcane Hierophant progresses wild shape even if you don't make it to druid 5. Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10 has 13 effective wildshape levels, i.e. tiny to large forms, animals and plants, 13 HD. Not bad. Plenty of good forms. Two more levels would net you huge forms. Huge forms are improvement, but you probably could live without them. As an arcane hierophant, you probably have lots of spells to cast and not much time to rip asses personally. Plus on highest level, there is shapechange. Imho 13 HD should be enough. You could take dragon wildshape and pick some versatile, mobile and durable dragon form; small & medium dragons don't have too many HD anyways.

The Arcane Heirophant wildshape entry specifically states that if you do not possess the ability to Wildshape already, that you do not gain it. If you can wildshape already, then the AH levels stack with druid levels for purposes of determining wildshape abilities. Am I reading this incorrectly?

[wotmaniac]

Well, Arcane Hierophant progresses wild shape even if you don't make it to druid 5. Druid 3/Arcane Hierophant 10 has 13 effective wildshape levels, i.e. tiny to large forms, animals and plants, 13 HD. Not bad. Plenty of good forms. Two more levels would net you huge forms. Huge forms are improvement, but you probably could live without them. As an arcane hierophant, you probably have lots of spells to cast and not much time to rip asses personally. Plus on highest level, there is shapechange. Imho 13 HD should be enough. You could take dragon wildshape and pick some versatile, mobile and durable dragon form; small & medium dragons don't have too many HD anyways.

The Arcane Heirophant wildshape entry specifically states that if you do not possess the ability to Wildshape already, that you do not gain it. If you can wildshape already, then the AH levels stack with druid levels for purposes of determining wildshape abilities. Am I reading this incorrectly?

no, you are not reading it correctly -- more specifically, you're missing half of the paragraph.
it's basically explaining that you get no new ability; i.e., a non-druid AH wouldn't get it.  Later in that same paragraph, it gives a specific example:

^{from RotW:}
[...] a character who is a 3rd-level wizard/3rd-level druid/4th-level arcane hierophant has the wild shape ability of a 7th-level druid

[BeholderSlayer]

[...] a character who is a 3rd-level wizard/3rd-level druid/4th-level arcane hierophant has the wild shape ability of a 7th-level druid

.....I had a feeling there was something I was missing. I noticed this example before I started working on the build, and after I started working on it only read the beginning and thought I had made an error in my previous interpretation. Thanks for reminding me to READ THE WHOLE DAMN ENTRY. 

[altpersona]

i vote spells, but its gonna be hard to screw it up any way you go...

[wotmaniac]

[...] a character who is a 3rd-level wizard/3rd-level druid/4th-level arcane hierophant has the wild shape ability of a 7th-level druid

.....I had a feeling there was something I was missing. I noticed this example before I started working on the build, and after I started working on it only read the beginning and thought I had made an error in my previous interpretation. Thanks for reminding me to READ THE WHOLE DAMN ENTRY. 

you're welcome 

i vote spells, but its gonna be hard to screw it up any way you go...

meh -- it's become a moot point anyway.

[raith0]

i am working on the same build in a low wealth game myself.  i was planning on going for the shapechange druid inplace of the wildshape druid just so i dont have to worry as much about amulet of natural attacks or casting maginc fang when i want/need to wade into melee.  but i am as of yet undecided.  as to witch i am going to do.


ron

[woodenbandman]

A: Irrelevant because Polymorph and Shapechange is more powerful and you have BOTH!