Author Topic: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough  (Read 14815 times)

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NiteCyper

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Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« on: January 17, 2010, 03:05:22 AM »
"Impromptu Metamagic
Level: 1st
Replaces: If you select this class feature you do not gain a familiar
Benefit: Each day, you may choose a metamagic feat you have. You can cast spells affected by that feat without increasing the spell level or casting time of the spells. You may not use any other metamagic feats that day. You may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 5 minus the level adjustment of the metamagic feat. (Thus, you may use Quicken Spell in this way once per day, while you could use Silent Spell four times per day.)
You may apply the metamagic feat spontaneously, as you cast the spell. If you prepare spells, you do not need to prepare the spells with the metamagic feat already applied.
Even though this ability does not increase the spell's level, you must be able to cast spells of the level the spell would be if you applied the metamagic feat normally. For example, a quickened magic missile would normally require a 5th-level spell slot. With this ability you may cast a quickened magic missile as a 1st-level spell, but you must still be able to cast 5th-level spells."

"Wall of Gloom" (level 2, Spell Compendium, Illusion [Shadow, Mind-affection, and Pattern/Fear something], page 233, Sor/Wiz-only) .

Dragon's Tear, optional spell component (CM), 200 GP: "When used in any fire or mind-affecting spell, a dragon's tear increases the spell's level by one, as if affected by the Heighten Spell feat."

Precocious Apprentice.

Shadowcraft Mage prereqs: Gnome, Bluff & Hide 4 ranks, Spell Focus (SF) (Illusion), able to cast at least three illusion spells, including at least one shadow spell of 4th level or higher.

Was there a ruling that disallowed the use of Precocious Apprentice for entry into PrCs?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 03:07:17 AM by NiteCyper »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2010, 04:03:25 AM »
It's easier just to use eldritch corruption for a x2 hreighten, to be honest
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 04:13:03 AM by The_Mad_Linguist »
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NiteCyper

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2010, 04:25:59 AM »
1. That requires three feats (SF (Il.), Eldritch Corruption, and a metamagic feat (Heighten)), but mine requires two and doesn't start as a Human or Strongheart Halfling, nor did I plan to start as something like a Wu-Jen? (that gets a feat that helps early-qualification).

2. Attaining taint is as easy as touching whatever a Tainted creature is, repeatedly?

3. Nice...
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2010, 04:31:54 AM »
Becoming tainted gets you a bonus feat, so the eldritch corruption is feat-neutral.
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NiteCyper

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2010, 05:07:47 AM »
Mind telling me an easy way to immediately counteract the consequences of moderate corruption? Being Evil is one, but that seems to negate the free-pass to a... I mean, as a cost, what doth this trick require? Considering Ritual of Alignment or Helm (item) or spell.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 05:13:46 AM by NiteCyper »
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Agita

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2010, 08:52:25 AM »
Mind telling me an easy way to immediately counteract the consequences of moderate corruption? Being Evil is one, but that seems to negate the free-pass to a... I mean, as a cost, what doth this trick require? Considering Ritual of Alignment or Helm (item) or spell.
Be a Necropolitan. Being Undead makes you immune to adverse effects of taint and automatically gets you free taint.
It's all about vision and making reality conform to your vision. By dropping a fucking house on it.

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NiteCyper

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2010, 10:09:20 AM »
Mind telling me an easy way to immediately counteract the consequences of moderate corruption? Being Evil is one, but that seems to negate the free-pass to a... I mean, as a cost, what doth this trick require? Considering Ritual of Alignment or Helm (item) or spell.
Be a Necropolitan. Being Undead makes you immune to adverse effects of taint and automatically gets you free taint.

And the cost of the Ritual of Crucimigration is better than say, a Heal/Greater Restoration + Heal/(Greater) Restoration? "Looses 1 Level & 1,000 XP due to the Ritual of Crucimigration".
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Agita

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2010, 10:12:02 AM »
Mind telling me an easy way to immediately counteract the consequences of moderate corruption? Being Evil is one, but that seems to negate the free-pass to a... I mean, as a cost, what doth this trick require? Considering Ritual of Alignment or Helm (item) or spell.
Be a Necropolitan. Being Undead makes you immune to adverse effects of taint and automatically gets you free taint.

And the cost of the Ritual of Crucimigration is better than say, a Heal/Greater Restoration + Heal/(Greater) Restoration? "Looses 1 Level & 1,000 XP due to the Ritual of Crucimigration".
Yes, because you're also immune to all adverse effects of any further taint you accumulate, and the cost is a joke. If you do the ritual right at level three (take a loan or something to get the 3k gp), it's effectively 2,000 XP. That's less than the cost of buying off a +1 LA.
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NiteCyper

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2010, 11:05:46 AM »
1. re: immunity: I was just gonna stop at moderate to obtain Eldritch Corruption. Any tricks requiring further taint that'd be of interest (to my low-level-optimized ScM) that you'd care to mention? I recall some nigh-infinite loop using the Tainted Scholar PrC as a spellcaster which I may frown upon were I not to recall the CO Diary of a Bonded Summoner who kept their power under control for the sake of fun (to which I now connect to another universe in which I played that I could control god-like, but came to recognize the practise of fun as induced by self-induced risk). I digress.

2.  I am not an expert on the XP-to-GP exchange-rate, so I didn't know it was a joke. And, I forgot about the XP Gravy-train.

3. But, my plan is to acquire the Shadowcraft Mage's Shadow Illusion class feature as early as possible. I don't like builds that start late. That's the point of using Eldritch Corruption in the first place. However, one requires 2 flaws or (Wu Jen) Human adaptation of the prereqs to qualify off-the-bat.

Link: WBL http://www.msen.com/~muffin/ADD/Chars/wealthbylevel.html
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 11:28:15 AM by NiteCyper »
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Agita

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2010, 11:13:40 AM »
1. re: immunity: I was just gonna stop at moderate to obtain Eldritch Corruption. Any tricks requiring further taint that you'd care to mention?
Not really, but since getting too much taint will make you an NPC, I figure it's always nice to have a way to keep that from happening. Necropolitan is an easy way, but anything that stops you from accumulating more taint works.

2.  I am not an expert on the XP-to-GP exchange-rate, so I didn't know it was a joke. And, I forgot about the XP Gravy-train.
It doesn't have anything to do with any exchange rate. The 3k gp is an extra cost of the ritual (beyond the level and XP).

3. But, my plan is to attain it as early as possible. I don't like builds that start late. That's the point of using Eldritch Corruption in the first place.
Well, pulling the ritual at lvl 3 resets you back to level 2. So you could say you have the template from level two. Is that early enough for you?

If you're willing to fork over more money, you could play an outsider race (like a Neraph), tough the effects of moderate corruption out until you have enough money, and then do a Ritual of Alignment to give yourself the Evil subtype. Note that this doesn't technically require you to be evil.
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NiteCyper

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2010, 11:37:03 AM »
What build of a Shadowcraft Mage would you play? State level of ascension. Would your build change if you started from level 1, or is that your default?

I think I'll humble myself to Dark Whisper Gnome Illusionist 5 (Shadow Shaper-ACF (UA)) + Dragon's Tear into ScM just so I don't have to tough out moderate taint (or more of this theory, at least for now because I'm sleepy).

Small question: should I post a link to this thread in the Shadowcraft Mage Handbook (NineInchNall) (on the official forums)? I've searched and there's no mention of usage of Eldritch Corruption.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 11:43:32 AM by NiteCyper »
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2010, 01:44:24 PM »
Was there a ruling that disallowed the use of Precocious Apprentice for entry into PrCs?
Sort of. PA doesn't work for requirements like "ability to cast 2nd level spells" as you never gain the ability to cast 2nd level spells. The feat it's self contains to clauses that speak of when you do gain the ability to cast 2nd level spells. Also on a smaller technicality you have to know a spell in order to cast it and PA doesn't add the spell to your list of spells known. Currently my sig has what I could fit within the text restraints so glance in there for the idea.

Battlesmith uses "able to cast 1st level spells" rather than "the ability to cast 1st level of spells" which suggests a word revision from older PrCs but the intent of requiring the ability seems to be the same so I'd go with no as my answer.

I'm sure a double empowered spell could be used for something though...
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2010, 02:52:43 PM »
My counter argument is, if you aren't casting a second level spell what are you doing when you use the feat?  Playing tiddlywinks?
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Agita

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2010, 02:53:39 PM »
My counter argument is, if you aren't casting a second level spell what are you doing when you use the feat?  Playing tiddlywinks?
No, you're obviously doing the "I'm a Little Teapot" dance. :D
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2010, 04:33:16 PM »
You are casting a 2nd level spell though, it just doesn't meet the requirements desired by PrCs/Feats.

If it helps, think of it like a Rouge UMDing a scroll of Haste. For all practical purposes the rogue just cast Haste, the Rogue gains all benefits with with Haste, extra attacks, improved sped, dodge bonuses, and the Rogue may even have to make a concentration check to cast. However the Rogue neither has the ability to preform actual spellcasting required to enter PrCs nor does the Rogue actually know any 3rd level spells so at the next level up the Rogue cannot dip into Incantatrix for some really awesome abilities.

You're packing a 1/day 2nd level spell such Grave Mist or Seeking Ray with PA at the first level. After that, retrain it out. It's not the most worthless feat in the world.
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

NiteCyper

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2010, 08:30:37 PM »
re: example: Rogue UMDing a Scroll of Hate: I don't think any of us would agree UMD is synonymous with cast, however close.

re: "Necromantic Cyst": It's called "Mother Cyst".

re: "Until your level is high enough to allow you to cast 2nd-level spells...": One of the most powerful parts of the rules mechanics of this feat, and it's still vague. I'd say, you could get worse wording, so I'll take the cheesy side :/

"The feat outright points out you do not have the ability to cast 2nd level spells though this feat."

There is a difference between "outright" and "implies". Taps my nose. To each their own, eh?
If it's useless later on without rebuilding, why don't we let it be what it could be?

re: "Bard or sorcerer..."; the last implication: I am reading the web-excerpt which doesn't state that part.

re: "Choose one 2nd-level spell from a school that is not barred to you. You can cast that spell once per day.": RAI. It seems you've become able to spontaneously cast (a) spell(s)...evil grin

Addendum: I'd like to use Versatile Spellcaster over Precocious Apprentice, but I need two things:

1. A way to know a 2nd level spell at level 1. I think I should copy from another Wizard's spellbook, although the spellcraft check is of concern.

2. Cast spontaneously.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2010, 09:51:12 PM by NiteCyper »
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2010, 09:58:09 PM »
You could just as easily read "level is high enough to cast second level spells" as "you can cast second level spells using only your levels in a class (not with feats, items, et cetera"
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NiteCyper

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2010, 12:36:02 AM »
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19864470/On_the_verge_of_a_Shadowcraft_Mage_early_qualification_breakthrough!

Without Eldritch Corruption (Taint hurts), nor down-time money-making investment(s),
with Flaws,

Gnome Illusionist with a level 1 Shadow spell (Dead End or Net of Shadows), Metamagic School Focus (Illusion, duh, CM), Heighten Spell, Shadow Shaper-ACF (UA, Hide as class skill) Apprentice (Criminal, DMG2, Bluff as class skill), retrains Apprentice to Spell Focus (Illusion). PHBII says you can retrain before attaining the benefits of the next level.
MMSF + Heighten to shove it to level 4.

Is the MMSF + Heighten combo possible?
Is it worth toughing out the Taint?
Is the down-time investment really viable?
Is there a way to get those 4 Bluff skill ranks?
Is there a way to get into ScM at level 2 with the Illusionist?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 12:46:05 AM by NiteCyper »
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NiteCyper

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2010, 08:14:29 AM »
Another breakthrough: It would seem one can put the Apprentice (Criminal) feat to use at level one via the Psychic Reformation power (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm).

How much does it cost and and how do I figure out how much it costs?
Must I now optimize a Psion/wilder to get the casting down to the lowest level possible for cost purposes?
Does this trick work; does this let you use skill points with Bluff as a class skill at level 1 (as a Wizard)?
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NiteCyper

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Re: Early Qualification into Shadowcraft Mage Breakthrough
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2010, 09:10:55 PM »
Another breakthrough: ""The Divine Minion Template online (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a&pf=true) for a few deities grants the Outsider [Evil] type/subtype."
Conclusion: HellOOOOO Eldritch Corruption! BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA"

 No, no, I must type an evil-laugh again: BWAAAAAAAAHAHAHAAAAAASDUJHSKGBZJNBFVLOKZNFBVOXIDKRNBSOINZORIGHZSOKVNZLSKG

Addendum: Follow-up: Gnome Illusionist 1 takes Spell Focus (Illusion) and Precocious Apprentice (Wall of Gloom). Become a Mulhorandi Divine Minion of a deity that grants you the Evil subtype, attain moderate taint, attain Eldritch Corruption, and voila: you qualify for ScM. Heck, you could probably abuse Tainted Scholar or whatever now that you're immune to the bad effects of Taint. Abuse the Divine Minion template too; Wildshape as a free action? 1. Transform from your wild-shape form back to Human as a free action, 2. Cast spell, 3. Wild-shape as free action, 4. ???, 5. PROFIT!

Addendum 2: Bad news: Nephthys is Chaotic Good.
Addendum 3: Thoth is Neutral (to be worked with?), and Sebek is Neutral Evil. That's it for LA +1 deities. Sebek is a crocodile.

Addendum 4: Then again, maybe I am disillusioning myself here: with LA +1, one could enter ScM by level 2 anyways. Only worthy with LA buyoff, and even then, the buyoff is late (later than we ever want it anyway).
« Last Edit: January 20, 2010, 09:27:51 PM by NiteCyper »
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