Help With a Sorcerer Shadowcraft Mage

[S_Jerusalem]

Okay, so I am being allowed to play a kobold SCM. I am starting at 9th or 10th. Mostly, I need help with choosing a spell list. I have plenty of experience with wizards, but relatively little with sorcerers and I know this is very important. I will be the group's only arcane caster. We have 2 good BSF/Damage-Tanks, solid rogue, 1 cleric and 1 part-time cleric.

Str: 7, Dex: 17, Con: 16, Int: 15, Wis: 11, Cha 18. This is after applying desert kobold and +2 Cha level bumps. Will have a bloodline-type feat that adds one spell know per spell level, listed first on my spells. I can't use flaws or early entry but ACF and such are fine. I think my feat list is set at : Bloodline (trading familiar for it I believe), Heighten Spell, Draconic Resevoir, SF: Illusion, and Rapid Metamagic. I'm pretty certain this is correct for the character, as it will likely run through L20.

We are playing through the Age of Worms arc, so I don't want too many spells that are useless against undead, though I have been assured there will be plenty of non-undead throughout. This is a reason I am not seriously considering Enervation. (Like, my favoritest spell)

I'm pretty certain I have to take Sorc7, SCM2. I will have the kobold ritual for +1Sorc Casting @6, but there aren't any good PrCs for me to take for 1-2Lvls as mos of the good ones dump a CL, which I would rather wait til I am finished out of SCM for that.

I am debating the Dragonblood Sorcerer 7th level substitution of an SLA. Does anyone have experience/opinion about this? It seems fine, maybe a bit of a wash by itself. But, could maybe be really powerful with Quicken SLA?

What I really need help with, as said is the spell list:

1st: Obscuring Mist, Silent Image, +4 more.
1st Candidates so far: M.Missile, Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement

2nd: Darkness, Mirror Image, +3 more.
2nd Candidates: Cloud of Knives, Ray of Stupidity, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Ray of Ice

3rd: Shadow Binding, +3 more.
#rd Candidates: Unluck, Unicorn Arrow, Great Thunderclap, Dispel, Haste, Phantom Steed

4th: Evard's Black Tentacles, +2 more.
Candidates: Greater Invisibility, Defenestrating Sphere, Ruin Delver's Fortune, Wings of Flurry

5th: Shadow Evocation, +1
I really have no idea about 5th level. I am stumped on this one.

Any suggestions would be great. I want this guy to be a swiss army knife, which will obviously be helped out next level when I can Shadow out any 4th or lower Evoc/Conj. I tend toward being a controller if that helps at all. Thanks, folks!

[HCL]

Take Magic Jar as a 5h level (I believe) if it is allowed. Easily the most powerful necromancy. Enervation is a nice one too.

Charm person is definitely a keeper.

Not sure what darkness is doing for you, grab Pyrotechnics or web. If you can't get a wand of ropetrick you might want to learn it.

Phantom steed is a must have at third level, as is haste. Great thunderclap is decent, dispel is OK if you don't have a cleric (you normally don't want to be suckered in to casting cleric spells)

[S_Jerusalem]

The Darkness is one of the spells added by my Bloodline feat. I am on the fence about Web, since the Shadow Binding sell is very similar, except with a save instead of need for anchoring. Thanks, I totally forgot Magic Jar. That spell is broke. I should probably run that by my DM first, though.

Charm may very well end up in, especially since I am low on thoughts for L1s.

I really should have just put haste in the chosen slot, I KNOW I will wind up with it.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

So I assume early entries into ACFs aren't allowed?  

Any particular reason you're not being a venerable dragonwrought kobold?

Teleport and polymorph are very useful.

[S_Jerusalem]

So I assume early entries into ACFs aren't allowed?  

Any particular reason you're not being a venerable dragonwrought kobold?

Teleport and polymorph are very useful.

Correct.

Because my DM would shit a brick if I did it. Basically, he can be a little finicky when it comes to violating the "spirit of the game." Whatever that nebulous concept may mean, I'm almost certain it includes being a VDK for the sexy mental stat bumps.

I am thinking about Teleport. I have been playing a metamorphosis-focused psion in the game and am burning people out a little with all of the changing shape awesomeness. This kobold is my second-stringer. We are all keeping a backup that we are leveling with our current characters due to the professed mortality rate of AoW.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

True 'nuff, I suppose.  You could probably go middle age without it being considered too far, but you know your DM better than I.

The other option I'd consider for fifth level would be telekinesis.  A million and ten out of combat uses, and the violent thrust mode is a very nice damage source even up to level 20.  Carry around a dozen of whatever weapon deals as much damage in aggregate as you think your DM will allow (size increases can yield cheesy amounts of damage, but will probably get the spell banned - medium greatswords are your best bet for high-but-not-bannable damage yields at 2d6 each, though you can pick something weaker for a more conservative DM).


As for prestige classes, dipping mindbender 1 is never a bad idea.

[snakeman830]

I'd reccommend that once you hit level 3 in SCM, you start trading out Shadow Evocation/Conjuration for other spells as Silent Image + Heighten becomes capable of mimicking them entirely.  Earth Spell is a feat you would be wise to grab.

Dragonblood Substitution levels may be in order, but really that's up to you.

I would reccommend entering into a Dragon Pact is you have Dragon Magic.  One spell slot and some gold is a small price to pay for numerous spell-like abilities.

[Hallack]

I'd reccommend that once you hit level 3 in SCM, you start trading out Shadow Evocation/Conjuration for other spells as Silent Image + Heighten becomes capable of mimicking them entirely. 

Yep, was about to point this out myself.  Once you have 3rd level of SCM you no longer need any of the shadow spells, only Silent Image and Heighten.

Also, another gem for 3rd level, Greater Magic Mirror.

[Rebel7284]

Your charisma seems pretty low, was this rolled or point buy?

I agree, starting middle aged and getting +1 to mental stats for a feat is probably balanced.

Spells to consider:

Level 2:
Wings of Cover - Stop almost any attack instantly as an immediate action.  This includes many spells.

Level 3:
Shivering Touch - Kill things with low dex.
Dispel Magic - Always nice to have spontaneously

Level 4:
Wings of Flurry - One of the best blasting spells ever.  Unless you can emulate sorcerer-only spells with ScM.
Ruin Delver's Fortune - Don't fail saves.  
Greater Mirror Image

Level 5:
Arcane Fusion

[PhaedrusXY]

Wings of Flurry - One of the best blasting spells ever.  Unless you can emulate sorcerer-only spells with ScM.

I don't see why you couldn't... The problem is that they then get a Will save.

Also, the following might put a damper on some ScM shenanigans if the DM knows about it:

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

All objects automatically succeed on their will saves vs. the spell, and when you use Shadow Illusion to mimic an evocation, it works like Shadow Evocation. So put together, this means that you can't affect objects with non-damaging shadow evocations at all. The %reality doesn't even matter.

Luckily Shadow Conjuration does not have this clause, but this puts a big damper on out of combat use for a bunch of very nice Evocation spells, like Tenser's Floating Disk. It also would make a "shadow" Resilient Sphere completely permeable to ranged weapon attacks...


I'm currently playing a cloistered cleric/shadowcraft mage, and although SCMs are of course very powerful, I am finding that Shadow Illusion does have some drawbacks vs. casting the "real" spells. You have to really consider whether the subject is likely to make that Will save, unless your %reality is high enough that it won't matter (mine isn't).

[snakeman830]

I'm currently playing a cloistered cleric/shadowcraft mage, and although SCMs are of course very powerful, I am finding that Shadow Illusion does have some drawbacks vs. casting the "real" spells. You have to really consider whether the subject is likely to make that Will save, unless your %reality is high enough that it won't matter (mine isn't).

Shadowcraft Mage: the only reason you would want your foes to succeed on a will save.

[Havok4]

Also, the following might put a damper on some ScM shenanigans if the DM knows about it:

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

All objects automatically succeed on their will saves vs. the spell, and when you use Shadow Illusion to mimic an evocation, it works like Shadow Evocation. So put together, this means that you can't affect objects with non-damaging shadow evocations at all. The %reality doesn't even matter.

Luckily Shadow Conjuration does not have this clause, but this puts a big damper on out of combat use for a bunch of very nice Evocation spells, like Tenser's Floating Disk. It also would make a "shadow" Resilient Sphere completely permeable to ranged weapon attacks...

You could probably get your DM to treat shadow evocation like shadow conjuration by abusing the interesting problems that rule causes, like a wall of force pit trap which only lets those who don't trust you fall or throwing boxes of force through walls.

[TheEndIsNear]

WOW usually chargers have bad will saves. Put a shadowforce(TM) wall between them and archers.

Dang XD

[PhaedrusXY]

WOW usually chargers have bad will saves. Put a shadowforce(TM) wall between them and archers.

Dang XD

Once you can hit 100% reality, the will save ceases to matter. So yeah, this with an archer would make a "shadow" Otiluke's an even better spell than the "real" one.

You could probably get your DM to treat shadow evocation like shadow conjuration by abusing the interesting problems that rule causes, like a wall of force pit trap which only lets those who don't trust you fall or throwing boxes of force through walls.

If I were DMing for one, I wouldn't. I'd go with the strict RAW interpretation. It definitely limits more cheese than it allows, I think. Both the examples you listed are pretty insignificant, IMO. The first one really has nothing to do with this, either. This rule only applies to objects. So regardless of how you interpret this, the first one works with a SCM. And I only know of one "force box" spell, and I don't see how it could be very abusive if you let someone throw it through a wall.

[Havok4]

True those are very minor things but it could be abused if more thought was spent on it. Also conjuration does almost everything evocation does better (except force effects) and shadow conjuration does not have this problem. So really all that keeping the literal interpretation would do is keep utility non combat evocations from working via shadow spells.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

On the plus side, the right evocation spell will help us make an excellent water purifier.

[Havok4]

On the plus side, the right evocation spell will help us make an excellent water purifier.

You are correct there, put a wall force and Permanency it across a well or river and you can keep all matter that can be defined as alive, which includes all bacteria, out. Also it could make a fun security measure to keep the weak willed away from certain areas.

[S_Jerusalem]

Your charisma seems pretty low, was this rolled or point buy?

I agree, starting middle aged and getting +1 to mental stats for a feat is probably balanced.

Yes, they were rolled. My roll was very good, but had none higher than 16.

If I can squeeze the feat in, I may very well do so. I agree that +1 is pretty fair, and my DM would probably be okay with it.

[PhaedrusXY]

Your charisma seems pretty low, was this rolled or point buy?

I agree, starting middle aged and getting +1 to mental stats for a feat is probably balanced.

Yes, they were rolled. My roll was very good, but had none higher than 16.

If I can squeeze the feat in, I may very well do so. I agree that +1 is pretty fair, and my DM would probably be okay with it.

IMO, it's worth it even without the feat. Your str and dex are both odd numbers, so the modifiers wouldn't change. So the only real cost is -1 to Con. I have a middle-aged illumian cleric in a game on here. If you rely much more on mental stats than physical ones, it is worth it (especially with point buy).