Took me awhile to respond, been busy while I'm motivated on True Dragons. Plus the storms keep knocking my net out blocking my submissions which is really annoying. The bottom of my post has a tangent for some information farming if you would like to take a look and answer some of it for me.
Post #1
[spoiler]
Let's just point that out again: a true dragon (a creature of the dragon type that possesses an age category). Hey look, a clear definition. No exceptions exist, actually. Unlike all the other ones, this definition actually holds true. I notice you failed to underline it, despite it being the one part of this that actually applies as a mechanical definition.
Because it's useless. PHB's Alter Self spell says everyone has age categories and races with the dragon type are still considered lesser races.
a true dragon (a creature of the dragon type that possesses an age category)
Also useless for you. If you say newest only applies then you cannot use Dragon Magic's rules. If you don't use newest applies then MMI, MMII, DoF, MoF, and Draconomicon's rules can be used.[/spoiler]
Post #2
[spoiler]
1. Reading Races of the Dragon it's painfully obvious that Dragonwrought Kobolds were intended to be True Dragons... 2. everything about their lore, from their religion to their values indicates that being like proper dragons is their primary goal and the various things they added in (like age categories, and saying that they count as Chromatic or Metallic, and their religion stating they're made from the pure blood of True Dragons) all are set up for that.
1. Quote please, I've looked for something that said Kobolds are meant to be a True Dragon rather than
a dragon but I can't see past the glaring separation of True Dragons & Kobolds in all RotD's Other Races sections blocking my view.
2. Oh their desire to be
a dragon or page 41's "The two races are related"? Yeah, theres a lot of that in the flavor.
Speaking of wants and flavor I want some true dragon innate spellcasting abilities with my half-dragon (direct parentage>ancestry) warblade and unobtainium flavored ice cream in my hand. Guess that means I have it.
To be clear, this is just "what do the rules say?" It is not a justification for anything. It is not a discussion of what the designers intended.
eh?
This coming for the guy who inserts
his meaning into a word as a method of proving kobolds are a True Dragon. Well right there you have it, this is not a discussion of what JaronK intends things to mean.
<sniped revision>look I don't allow it so it's cool for it to be true.</snip>
Newest low I've seen.
[/spoiler]
Post #3
[spoiler]The methods JaronK uses to say kobolds are True Dragons are...
1. Specific replaces GeneralFang Dragons don't have a breath weapon there for you do not need a breath weapon to be a True Dragon.Chaos Dragons don't have innate spellcasting there for you do not need innate spellcasting to be a True Dragon.My kobold is a True Dragon!I'll use the Fang & Improved Disarm for example in a true Lost style explaination. A Fang Dragon's Ability Drain description states "a fang dragon does not have a breath weapon", it is an exception to the general rule that all True Dragon's have a breath weapon and since the Fang is listed as a True Dragon and since it is a more specific entry it takes precedence over True Dragon rules allowing the Fang to be a True Dragon. Now look at Improved Disarm, would you say everyone has +4 to disarm checks?
Missing the linkage I used? Yeah, no one ever gets them. Create a stat block of a character with the Improved Disarm feat. He has a +4 bonus to disarm checks instead of +0, an exception to the rules of combat. Just as a Fang Dragon has a bite attack instead of a breath weapon, an exception fo the rules of True Dragons. Trying to say Bob doesn't need a breath weapon to be a True Dragon is like saying Tim don't need Improved Disarm for the same +4 bonus to disarm checks. Apply train of thought to how monsters aqcuire spells without class levels if you desire.
Fang Dragons are an exception to requiring a Breath Weapon to be a True Dragon, however unless you are a Fang Dragon you don't get it's rules. Not only am I speaking from a several thousand example generated view but it just so happens the DMG/RC has a rule on this.
Rules Compendium, Page 5, Order of Rules Application
A Fang Dragon can be a True Dragon simply by saying it is, thats just how it is. At no point does a kobold get the same exception.
*
2. Ignoring the above, specific does replace generaldurr, dur, durpa durrrr. HHHUUUUURRRRR! *drools*Aka in the next post JaronK posts no less than 0 words to refute that but instead 450 words about how he makes exceptions to what he uses. So following his method...
His method, find an exception to ignore it, isn't enough to work either. Every True Dragon listed as such gains Dragon HD Size Increases as a direct result of aging. At the young adult age (or older) they all gain Damage Reduction, Frightful Presence, and Spell Resistance.. Finally they all also have the Keen Senses & Blindsense abilities. All of them have those abilties, even the Yu since all Yu dragons inherit one the other Lung Dragon stat blocks. I suppose a Kobold could obtain all those traits given all the feats, classes, and spells out there. But by that the cost is beyond the gain and JaronK refuses to follow up on this route since he is set on trying to make Loredrake obtainable at level 1.
*
3. Newest OnlyDraconomicon, Dragons Of Faerun, Magic of Incarnum, Monsters of Faerun, Monster Manual I, Monster Manual II, Sandstorm, & Shining South rules are older than Dragon Magic. They don't count, ignored.Actully, Dragons of Krynn was the last 3rd/3.5 edition book printed to say what a dragon is (that I've found). It restablishes many but not all of the rules from the books before it. For example, True Dragon innate casting, which is material component free reguardless of gp cost putting it far beyond the abilities of Eschew Materials. Breath weapons and flight make a comeback as requirements as well and so on.
*
4. FlavorDragonwrought is a state brought on my True Dragon ansetory, it's so pure I am a True Dragon. P.S. Kobold flavor says they wish to be a dragon so ha.Half-Dragon is a state brought on by ten levels in a worthless PrC or having direct linage to a True Dragon (ie one parent was one). Half-Dragon's are not pure enough to be a True Dragon nor is your mutt whos twice removed great great grandfather was a True Dragon. There is zero text supporting the generic haritage of True Dragons is capable of skipping generations and plently suggesting it don't.
Speaking of wants and flavor I want some true dragon innate spellcasting abilities with my half-dragon (direct parentage>ancestry) warblade and unobtainium flavored ice cream in my hand. ... Hmm, for some reason that didn't work.
*
5. I say so.As you know, words are a way of expressing meaning. It isn't the words them selves that have any real bearing, it's the intent. It's also subject to personal interpretation so of course JaronK immediately leap on that like a fly on pie.
Take for example "In addition, dragons gain power and abilities as they age" To me I see they must gain new abilities not simply increase exsisting ones. Kobolds are out. To others +3 int is more power, kobolds are in. And more importently, crack open a book with any True Dragons and see what it means by gaining power & abilitites from aging. So JaronK has a stance nothing but his opinion matters.
Well I have an opinion and we're both login names on a chat board, it would be a tie prompting me to ask about boobs except the books
do matter and should have been the answer a long time ago if not for Internet egos.
*
6. With my rules combined, I am True Dragon kobold! Go Kobold, hes a hero...This is truly the most annoying habit of JaronK.
Core problem with this method, besides the fact it's just as easy to mix up methods to create points against as well, is it don't take into account all of the rules so it's like saying the world is flat becuase you choose to ignore a geography and then trying to prove it by falling off the edge of Earth. You can't ignore everything and selectively pin a half of a sentence as a point.
Oh, I need more analogies. I shall do one better and selectively pick
letters!
(not going anywhere with this other than poking fun btw, not giving you an idea here)
In all fairness, that listing was m
ostly talki
ng about monsters, not PCs, and monsters don't have age pena
lties an
yway. A ho
rse, for ex
ample,
doesn't get venerable. So the "more powerful" th
ing
actually applies only to sta
ndard True Dragons, PC races, a
nd a few o
ther select things. Either way, that part of the definition does fit.[/i]
K, bored now.
Only Radiant Dragon's lose dex as they age. 4 points in total even though size growth is supposed to remove 2 dex per increase.
*
7. Big blocks of text no one really readsfor ( int i - 0; i < 65535; i++ ) { document.Write( "blah " ); }All he posts are blocks of of the repeated text against any post against him. He doesn't address anything really. Take
any post he has made in here in response to another. He only refutes half of it and bounces inbetween methods using huge chunks of text as a way to distract you. Take an example from the last one of my posts, I speak of how True Dragons have innate casting and he fails to refute it by saying True Dragons can and have taken sorcerer levels. I'm torn over it, am I suppose to believe he is that stupid or just trolling?
*
8. And finally, I'm Mr Nice GuyAllow this because I don't think it should work like this eitherWell it's not like he ever used any kinda of rules anyway so asking nicely is a perfectly valid argument for him.
Note: I tried this one at work yesterday, I didn't get a raise like I wanted
[/spoiler]
***
***
***
True Dragon questions (that has nothing to do with kobolds!)
[spoiler]
The True Dragon innate spellcasting trait allows many to cast cleric spells as divine spells and material free casting. Got any good examples of abuse for this? Apocalypse From The Sky withstanding of course. The Resurrection chain looks very promising. Also my PDF of Dragon Magazine is corrupted or something. The Tome Dragon's Precognition ability isn't detailed. Could someone PM the information if you have it please?
[/spoiler]