Author Topic: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted  (Read 3271 times)

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keyes2k4

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Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« on: December 20, 2009, 06:43:37 PM »
So one of my DM's decided to have us try a one time level 30 epic campaign one-shot.  Being an avid min-maxer, I decided that playing a wizard would be best, but my affinity for blasting the crap out of my enemies seems to have gotten the better of me, so I'm strongly considering my feat progression.

So here's my plan

Wiz 5/incantatrix 10/Frostmage 5/Incantatrix (epic) 10
OR
Sorc 6/Rainbow servant 10/Frostmage 4/Incantatrix 10
Feats For wizard look something like this:
1: Collegiate Wizard (CArc 181)
3: Maximize Spell (PHB)
5 (wiz bonus): Widen Spell (phb)
6: Eschew Materials (Phb) - Pre-req for Ignore Material Components (epic)
6 (incant bonus): Empower Spell (PHB)
9: Energy Substitution (cold) (CArc 78)
9 (Incant Bonus): Twin Spell (CArc 84)
12: Energy Admixture (CArc 78)
12 (Incant Bonus): Extend Spell (PHB)
15: Frozen casting (Frostburn) -prereq for Frost mage
15 (Incant Bonus): Persistant spell (pgtf)
18: Quicken Spell (PHB)
21: Epic Spellcasting (

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2009, 07:28:03 PM »
You're above level 20 and have epic spellcasting.

Honestly, there's nothing that can beat that combination.  Everything else is just window dressing.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2009, 07:52:26 PM »
Become a Demi Lich. It's sweet as shit and doesn't have a LA. (you need to take the Lich LA though)

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2009, 08:09:08 PM »
Become a Demi Lich. It's sweet as shit and doesn't have a LA. (you need to take the Lich LA though)
Page 156 of ELH gives it LA 12, I believe.

EDIT: LA+8, but you need the lich template first, so total of +12
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OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2009, 09:46:59 PM »
If you're interested in blasting, there's no point in picking a Sorcerer as the second build, you're better off with Beguiler 5/Rainbow Servant 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5/SOMETHING 10. This will give you Beguiler spells (Which are nice, but I appreciate not for a blaster), every single Cleric spell on tap (Which gives some nice blaster spells, but is mainly there for great variety), and the ability to convert heightened Silent Images into any Sor/Wiz Evocation, Conjuration(Creation) or Conjuration(Summoning) spell you want. That should cover the blaster thing quite nicely. Honestly, Shadowcraft Mages always make the best blasters.

Since I'm on a bit of a Chameleon thing at the moment, how do you feel about:

Beguiler 1/Spellthief 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Chameleon 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5/SOMETHING 3

This will give you all Cleric spells on tap, through Beguiler, make your caster level 30 (Through Master Spellthief), and give you every single Divine spell in existence (Through Chameleon), as well as the ability to learn every single Arcane spell in existence (Through Chameleon). Note, unless you invest in Extra Spell 3 times, you'll be restricted to 6th level spells for the Chameleon, but that's still quite useful, and at a level 30+ game, it won't affect your spells per day any.

Havok4

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2009, 11:02:07 PM »

Beguiler 1/Spellthief 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Chameleon 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5/SOMETHING 3

This will give you all Cleric spells on tap, through Beguiler, make your caster level 30 (Through Master Spellthief)
Assuming you take a caster level advancing class for the last 3 you would actually have a caster level of 39 (19 beguiler + 20 chameleon).

ninjarabbit

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2009, 11:09:57 PM »
spellthief1/wizard3/sorcerer1/ultimatemagus10/incantrix10/x5, maybe frost mage

Take wings of flurry as your 4th level sorcerer spell and with your pumped up CL put the hurt on things.

OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2009, 11:25:35 PM »

Beguiler 1/Spellthief 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Chameleon 10/Shadowcraft Mage 5/SOMETHING 3

This will give you all Cleric spells on tap, through Beguiler, make your caster level 30 (Through Master Spellthief)
Assuming you take a caster level advancing class for the last 3 you would actually have a caster level of 39 (19 beguiler + 20 chameleon).

My bad! But I think it would be a caster level of 40, you've got the spells per day of a 19th level Beguiler, but all the classes are adding caster level due to Master Spellthief.

OblivionSmurf83

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2009, 11:27:15 PM »
spellthief1/wizard3/sorcerer1/ultimatemagus10/incantrix10/x5, maybe frost mage

Take wings of flurry as your 4th level sorcerer spell and with your pumped up CL put the hurt on things.

Wings of Flurry is great, do you think it needs a Sorcerer level? I actually love Sorcerers (sub-optimal, I know), but I think for that particular spell, you're better off with the Chameleon build, or replicating it through Shadowcraft Mage (He can imitate Sor/Wiz spells, which would include Sor only Evocation spells).

ninjarabbit

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2009, 11:38:15 PM »
spellthief1/wizard3/sorcerer1/ultimatemagus10/incantrix10/x5, maybe frost mage

Take wings of flurry as your 4th level sorcerer spell and with your pumped up CL put the hurt on things.

Wings of Flurry is great, do you think it needs a Sorcerer level? I actually love Sorcerers (sub-optimal, I know), but I think for that particular spell, you're better off with the Chameleon build, or replicating it through Shadowcraft Mage (He can imitate Sor/Wiz spells, which would include Sor only Evocation spells).

Maybe but I want to abuse UM, practiced spellcaster (since you decide in which order you apply CLs), and master spellthief.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2009, 11:53:47 PM »
spellthief1/wizard3/sorcerer1/ultimatemagus10/incantrix10/x5, maybe frost mage

Take wings of flurry as your 4th level sorcerer spell and with your pumped up CL put the hurt on things.

Wings of Flurry is great, do you think it needs a Sorcerer level? I actually love Sorcerers (sub-optimal, I know), but I think for that particular spell, you're better off with the Chameleon build, or replicating it through Shadowcraft Mage (He can imitate Sor/Wiz spells, which would include Sor only Evocation spells).

Or replace it with Knight of the Weave from Champions of Valor.

DavidWL

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2009, 12:34:26 AM »
So one of my DM's decided to have us try a one time level 30 epic campaign one-shot.  Being an avid min-maxer, I decided that playing a wizard would be best, but my affinity for blasting the crap out of my enemies seems to have gotten the better of me, so I'm strongly considering my feat progression

The iconic blasters are, I believe, metamagic stackers.  Something like this:
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=365.msg7187#msg7187

Example:

Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/something 5/Epic Incantatrix 10
Epic Feats (you get 4 from levels and 3 from incantatrix)
Improved Metamagic * 3
Multispell *3
Epic Spellcasting

With a bunch of metamagic feats, you can do something like:
- Maximized Timestop
- Cast 5 spells per round (1 standard, 4 quickened)
- Do this for 4 rounds
- Each spell is a twinned, admixtured, Maximized, Empowered, etc. spell

You might also want to look at warmage 5 (From dragonlance age of mortals)
You might want to look at something that would give you circle magic to boost caster level
You might want to look at Transfer Essense and Consumptive field for more CL boosts, for use with those "don't have a stinking CL cap" spells.
You might want to look at spellgaurd of silverymoon (so your allies aren't subject to your evocative doom).

A rough example (and there is a lot more optimization available):
1 twinned, maximized, admixtured, scuplted, quickened Maw of Chaos (after buffed with Transfer Essense, and Consumptive field), with 5 levels of War mage
CL = 30 * 1.5 (Transfer Essense) * 1.5 (Consumptive Field) = 67
Base Damage from Maw of Chaos = 67 * (1D6 + 3)
Maximized = 67 * 9
Twinned and Admixtured = 67 * 9 * 4 = 2412 HP of damage ... per round ... for 67 rounds.

And this was without much optimization.  And you can do it 5 times a round.  And you can use delay spell to stack it.

Best,
David
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jojolagger

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2009, 02:09:58 AM »
level 30 factotum. you still qualify for epic spellcasting & 1/day you can have an additional +30 to spellcraft for 1 inspiration point(cunning knowledge).
Take Leadership & Epic leadership for lots of minions & then use ritual casting to get insane bonuses to spellcarft for epic casting.
Also with all the fonts of inspiration you could supercharge you actions per turn(Cunning Surge).
Also to supercharge your intelligence Have your 8th level artificer (gained from leadership either as a cohort of follower if possible) and Infuse a tome of clear thought so than it gives a different bonus than inherit so it stacks. This can be done with almost any bonus.
I have a +5 dodge bonus to intelligence.  :D :lmao (Item alteration disallows sacred & profane. It also disallows dodge , but only for AC bonuses).
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2009, 02:51:30 AM »
You can always add 10 levels of Incantatrix or 10 more levels of UM to my Spellthief build in anklebite's thread (the true arcane dilettante), though good luck calculating the CL of the beast.  As is without using any of his CL boosting feats and butt nekkid, he's CL 110.  That enough of a nuke for you (bear in mind, this also means Black Tentacles can pin a Hecatoneries and Phantom Steed is F-4 Phantom Steed, being literally supersonic)?

:D

PS : Oh, and he's also got the options of A)Tainted Sorcerer for a level for more free metamagic and bookoo spell slots, and B)He's even in the stock version a Spellwarp Sniper with Arcane Thesis (Fireball) and untyped fire damage, so he's got a long range sniper rifle always available.  With a couple metamagics, that's a -1st level slot.  As in less than a cantrip :)  And that range, for the curious, is 400 ft + (40*110), or 4800.  Just under 1 mile, pre-metamagic.
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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2009, 01:45:30 PM »
level 30 factotum. you still qualify for epic spellcasting & 1/day you can have an additional +30 to spellcraft for 1 inspiration point(cunning knowledge).
Take Leadership & Epic leadership for lots of minions & then use ritual casting to get insane bonuses to spellcarft for epic casting.
Also with all the fonts of inspiration you could supercharge you actions per turn(Cunning Surge).
Also to supercharge your intelligence Have your 8th level artificer (gained from leadership either as a cohort of follower if possible) and Infuse a tome of clear thought so than it gives a different bonus than inherit so it stacks. This can be done with almost any bonus.
I have a +5 dodge bonus to intelligence.  :D :lmao (Item alteration disallows sacred & profane. It also disallows dodge , but only for AC bonuses).

it also disallows things that don't make sense. it actually says that.

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2009, 04:29:36 PM »
The Mad Linguist has it right. I played in an epic level campaign once ( and we were only level 23!) and it was insanity. Granted, we were all casters and a fairly optimized group, but I don't think the details of the build matter that much. Just optimize spellcraft (that factotum idea sounds great) and its basically about how many epic level buffs you have going, then time stop + dimensional anchor + force cage + maw of chaos.
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jojolagger

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2009, 05:07:13 PM »
level 30 factotum. you still qualify for epic spellcasting & 1/day you can have an additional +30 to spellcraft for 1 inspiration point(cunning knowledge).
Take Leadership & Epic leadership for lots of minions & then use ritual casting to get insane bonuses to spellcarft for epic casting.
Also with all the fonts of inspiration you could supercharge you actions per turn(Cunning Surge).
Also to supercharge your intelligence Have your 8th level artificer (gained from leadership either as a cohort of follower if possible) and Infuse a tome of clear thought so than it gives a different bonus than inherit so it stacks. This can be done with almost any bonus.
I have a +5 dodge bonus to intelligence.  :D :lmao (Item alteration disallows sacred & profane. It also disallows dodge , but only for AC bonuses).

it also disallows things that don't make sense. it actually says that.

Where does it say that? [Citation Needed]
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There is: Kill shit and loot the corpse!
When you use a tool the way it was designed for -- its intended function -- then it will work very well for you.

But it's not the tool's fault if you use it for something else and you fail utterly, such as trying to eat cereal with a butterknife, pounding nails with a screwdriver, blogging to voice your political opinions, and brushing your teeth with a hammer.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: Level 30 Arcanist.. Second opinions wanted
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2009, 07:45:10 PM »
Also going off of David's example Maw of Chaos Maelstrom, you can use Metamagic Effect to Widen each one (or even if you only cast one, Widen that one) over and over, and apply Explosive Spell to it too (assuming you've given it a Ref save).  Watch it turn into a growing supernova :P
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