Author Topic: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease  (Read 2404 times)

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bhu

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3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« on: December 12, 2009, 11:31:43 PM »
If you were rebuilding 3.5, how would you handle poisons and disease?

RobbyPants

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2009, 09:31:14 AM »
All in all, I like the ability damage approach, but I wouldn't mind adding in additional conditions (fatigue, exhaustion, sickened, etc).  I don't know that we want to put too much thought into it (basically, don't make it too complicated).
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[/spoiler]

veekie

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2009, 09:49:12 AM »
A couple of things here:
1) Additional conditions available, what Robby said, heck, throw direct damage into the pot even
2) Variable number of intervals(from a one off, to a static number of saves, to save until you die or make it)
3) Variable length of intervals, why make all poisons a minute since their initial infliction, let it be case by case

Thats pretty much it. I think
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

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RobbyPants

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2009, 11:22:42 AM »
3) Variable length of intervals, why make all poisons a minute since their initial infliction, let it be case by case
That's another thing I'd thought of.  A while ago, I thought of houseruling some poisons to have a third interval: one hour, which seems cool for various contact and ingested poisons in an intrigue setting.  Of course, even a minute is stretching it for a typical combat unless you're perusing a poisoned combatant who fled the scene.
My balancing 3.5 compendium
Elemental mage test game

Quotes
[spoiler]
Quote from: Cafiend
It is a shame stupidity isn't painful.
Quote from: StormKnight
Totally true.  Historians believe that most past civilizations would have endured for centuries longer if they had successfully determined Batman's alignment.
Quote from: Grand Theft Otto
Why are so many posts on the board the equivalent of " Dear Dr. Crotch, I keep punching myself in the crotch, and my groin hurts... what should I do? How can I make my groin stop hurting?"
Quote from: CryoSilver
I suggest carving "Don't be a dick" into him with a knife.  A dull, rusty knife.  A dull, rusty, bent, flaming knife.
Quote from: Seerow
Fluffy: It's over Steve! I've got the high ground!
Steve: You underestimate my power!
Fluffy: Don't try it, Steve!
Steve: *charges*
Fluffy: *three critical strikes*
Steve: ****
Quote from: claypigeons
I don't even stat out commoners. Commoner = corpse that just isn't a zombie. Yet.
Quote from: CryoSilver
When I think "Old Testament Boots of Peace" I think of a paladin curb-stomping an orc and screaming "Your death brings peace to this land!"
Quote from: Orville_Oaksong
Buy a small country. Or Pelor. Both are good investments.
[/spoiler]

JaronK

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2009, 03:29:04 PM »
I'd actually keep the same times, just because simplicity is important... but then I'd make poisons a lot cheaper, and close the loophole with poisons that can be made via Minor/Major Creation.  Venomous assassins are a niche that should be easily playable, and right now you either generate endless Black Lotus with the creation spells, or you can't afford to use poison at all.  I'd prefer something simple like "because poisons are generally made from easier to locate components, and their illegality drives up their price, when crafting poison you need only 1/10th the cost in raw materials instead of the normal 1/3rd.  Additionally, you may make a Survival check to locate nearby poison ingredients, with a DC equal to the crafting DC... doing so reduces the cost to 1/30th, though the DM may decide what poison components are available in the area."

JaronK
« Last Edit: December 13, 2009, 03:31:29 PM by JaronK »

veekie

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2009, 04:02:08 PM »
^^
Opps, yeah, the prices and availability need fixing too.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Pteryx

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2009, 05:01:50 PM »
Ability damage does make for neat poisons, but it doesn't make for very threatening diseases IMO -- every day you take ability damage that you recover from on a daily basis anyway, oh no.  The rules for disease could use an overhaul.  Unfortunately, I'm really not sure how best to do it aside from narratively off the top of my head.

Poison, OTOH, has a decent basis, and ability damage and drain make great threats, and the existing status-based poisons are a good start on that option -- but poisons based on HP damage, both lethal and subdual, have their place too.  I'll agree with the sentiment that having only two-stage, one-minute-interval poisons is too limiting and unrealistic, though probably for simplicity's sake any given poison should have the same interval between stages (so you can describe a poison as being a three-stage hour-interval poison or a five-stage round-interval poison).  The game could also differentiate between poisons where what happens at each stage is fixed and poisons whose effects must be suffered in order; for example, a three-stage minute-interval poison could either always attempt to deal 1d4 Str damage at stage 1, 2d4 Str damage at stage 2, and 2d4 Str drain at stage 3... or it could be defined as 1d4 Str on the first failed save, 2d4 Str damage on the second failed save, and 2d4 Str drain on a third failed save.

Let us never speak of ravages and afflictions again.  -- Pteryx

veekie

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« Reply #7 on: December 14, 2009, 01:26:53 AM »
Quote
Let us never speak of ravages and afflictions again.
And I had just purged the memory x.x
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."

Bloody Initiate

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2009, 06:20:01 AM »
I think the current system worked fine they just didn't explore it very far. Some poisons and diseases already make you nauseated or fatigued, but they're way more rare than the ability damage ones (Which arguably should have been the rare ones).

I also think their DCs should either be higher or more classes should make use of poisons in ways that scale the DCs appropriate to level.
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veekie

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Re: 3.5 Rebuild Poll Part 56: Poison and Disease
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2009, 11:38:41 AM »
Its like they took one look at poisons and disease and decided if it wasn't going to kill you it's not worth bothering with.
The mind transcends the body.
It's also a little cold because of that.
Please get it a blanket.

I wish I could read your mind,
I can barely read mine.

"Skynet begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. At 2:15, it begins rolling up characters."

[spoiler]
"Just what do you think the moon up in the sky is? Everyone sees that big, round shiny thing and thinks there must be something round up there, right? That's just silly. The truth is much more awesome than that. You can almost never see the real Moon, and its appearance is death to humans. You can only see the Moon when it's reflected in things. And the things it reflects in, like water or glass, can all be broken, right? Since the moon you see in the sky is just being reflected in the heavens, if you tear open the heavens it's easy to break it~"
-Ibuki Suika, on overkill

To sumbolaion diakoneto moi, basilisk ouranionon.
Epigenentheto, apoleia keraune hos timeis pteirei.
Hekatonkatis kai khiliakis astrapsato.
Khiliarkhou Astrape!
[/spoiler]

There is no higher price than 'free'.

"I won't die. I've been ordered not to die."