Author Topic: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire  (Read 7872 times)

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Shigure

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Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« on: December 07, 2009, 06:46:26 PM »
Hey everyone!

Ever since I found Spellfire and the Spellfire Channeler Prc in Magic of Faerun i've wanted to somehow make the most out of them but i'm having a hard time finding a good base for the character. So i'm turning to the only people I can trust to aid me on this mission...you. All sources are open...even dragon magazine if you're so inclined.

So...obviously we'll want a high Con score to max out Concentration checks and number of Spellfire levels stored. Lowest LA possible would be preferred in this case since the DMs I play with don't allow for buying off LAs. If you want to show me something that would take a higher than optimal LA i'd still be interested in seeing it.

To cast or not to cast is also a big question. If I recall correctly there was a way to base casting off of Con somewhere out there. That would be ideal since, as far as I can tell, you can boost yourself if worst comes to worst. Non-casters are hampered in that the Prc has a wizards BAB progression so close combat is less than great in most cases.

Initial thoughts for starting classes were Duskblade, Hexblade, or Warlock...none of which are all that great if only taken to minimum needed levels for entering the Prc. Crusader also came to mind as a solid base if close combat occurred but it lacks the required skills to enter.

Also, if I understand the concept correctly, its possible to retrain/rebuild this so that, at level 10, you'd only have the 10 level of the Prc.

If people think i'm wasting my time going this route please feel free to explain why. As much as I like this Prc and ability I AM willing to listen.

Many thanks to you all for your time.  
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 06:58:44 PM »
I looked at something like this years ago. It isn't easy as you have to "convince" the enemy to cast spells at you for you to gain your power. If power is what you want then go with a regular spellcaster, but if you want to have a really different kind of character the playing a walking rod of absorption fits the bill.

In the 3.0 Rokugan Shugenja they had an option to let you use con for your casting stat if you were an earth focused one. You might be able to convince your DM that that makes perfect sense and let you use it. I was the DM of that game and will never EVER let that happen again since that character had more HP than both Samurai combined, game ended near level 24. Other than that i don't know a way to change your casting stat, maybe a Illuman has something not sure.

I'll have to look at the PrC and it reqs before i can give any advice that is more sound than that.  

edit: oh yea race Dragonborn (races of the dragon) Water Orc
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 07:03:25 PM by archangel.arcanis »
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Shigure

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 07:04:02 PM »
I looked at something like this years ago. It isn't easy as you have to "convince" the enemy to cast spells at you for you to gain your power. If power is what you want then go with a regular spellcaster, but if you want to have a really different kind of character the playing a walking rod of absorption fits the bill.

In the 3.0 Rokugan Shugenja they had an option to let you use con for your casting stat if you were an earth focused one. You might be able to convince your DM that that makes perfect sense and let you use it. I was the DM of that game and will never EVER let that happen again since that character had more HP than both Samurai combined, game ended near level 24. Other than that i don't know a way to change your casting stat, maybe a Illuman has something not sure.

I'll have to look at the PrC and it reqs before i can give any advice that is more sound than that. 

Outside of combat you can charge up via magical items, spells, etc...but yeah IN combat its not such a great idea to just wait around and hope your opponent throws a spell your way.

I knew there was a way to do it...I just didn't think i'd have to go so far back to find it. I'll take a peek at OA and see if it would fit the bill.
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2009, 07:22:13 PM »
Yea like i said it has been years since i looked at anything like this.

For base class anything with concentration is fair game the other 2 skills are easy enough to get cross class. I also wouldn't be too worried about making the AC since all of it is touch attacks.

For charging a few everburning torches should do the trick, 100gp listed in phb 50gp once the cleric/wiz/sorc in the group can cast it for you.

Base classes to consider:
Ranger: gets endurance for free and has the skill points to spare.
Fighter: bonus feats to specialize in ranged combat; hurts that none of the skills are class skills but who takes more than 4 levels of fighter anyway. (note weapon spec can be applied later for fun)
Any caster: really you will get at most 3rd level spells but could pre-charge yourself.
Psi Warrior: Bonus feats like a fighter and some decent self buffs, but can't pre-charge. Depending on how transparent your DM is with Psi/Magic could have the class skills as well. (we run with Kn Arc/psi, Spell/Psicraft, and UMD/UPD all merged with their counterpart) Don't forget Hustle too especially if you can get the time to ready down to a move action.

edit: I almost forgot the most hilarious one of all Spellthief. Now you can guarantee he won't have spells for long. Requires some shenanigans to get it high enough to steal the highest level spells.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2009, 07:27:13 PM by archangel.arcanis »
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Shigure

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2009, 07:33:43 PM »
Well if casters can charge themselves then a Warlock would be ideal, what with their never ending supply of power. And since the Prc doesn't progress casting its not as big a hit to a Warlock as it would be to a normal caster. I can even see it now...kid realizes he's got the ability to wield spellfire at a fairly early age. Knows he's in trouble if he doesn't ensure his own safety so he makes a pact with a fiend so he can draw on its power.

Psiwarrior is an interesting consideration. I've never played one so i'd have to see what the options were but even without going indepth I could see it working fairly well.
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2009, 07:37:04 PM »
While it isn't a leap to have spell like abilities work i think it only states spells. otherwise psionics is fair game too because they are defined as spell like abilities.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

bearsarebrown

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2009, 07:44:19 PM »
While it isn't a leap to have spell like abilities work i think it only states spells. otherwise psionics is fair game too because they are defined as spell like abilities.

The invocations have effective spell levels. I don't think it's a stretch.

Shigure

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2009, 07:45:20 PM »
While it isn't a leap to have spell like abilities work i think it only states spells. otherwise psionics is fair game too because they are defined as spell like abilities.

Its as Rod of Absorption which sucks up spells and SLAs so I believe its fair game.
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Operation Shoestring

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2009, 07:47:16 PM »
Psionics should be fair game anyway if you are using transparency rules.

Totemists' abilities are keyed off of CON.

not sure how well they synergize with Spellfire though.

If using Spellfire is a standard action, the move-action dimension door (short range) you can get at level 2 is pretty decent,

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2009, 07:51:09 PM »
So all is fair game thus it becomes even more fun. Warlock is good with unlimited usage to charge up and nuke with plus some nice buffs mixed in there.

In the same vein dragonfire adept is another option.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Shigure

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2009, 08:00:23 PM »
In the same vein dragonfire adept is another option.

While true it doesn't have as many options open to it invocation wise as a warlock...though they do manage better in close combat with their d8s and natural armor. I'll have to consider the two closely.
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Runestar

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 01:49:44 AM »
I don't think you can absorb your own eldritch blast unless you can manage 2 standard actions each round (standard action to ready, standard action to fire off EB). You will need another warlock PC or cohort to pull this off.

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Shigure

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 01:54:13 AM »
I don't think you can absorb your own eldritch blast unless you can manage 2 standard actions each round (standard action to ready, standard action to fire off EB). You will need another warlock PC or cohort to pull this off.

I guess there's a bit of a mix up. The rules for Spellfire require a readied action to absorb a spell as Rod of Absorption. Rod of Absorption was updated for 3.5 to require no action on the users part. I'm prone to think it still requires a readied action now that I look at it again so I suppose it wouldn't work as planned would it?  :blush

So then...what to do? Anyone else got an idea?
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Chemus

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2009, 02:49:34 AM »
Leadership: Warlock cohort.
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SorO_Lost

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2009, 01:45:28 PM »
Druid 5 / Warlock 1 / Spellfire Channeler X
Notable feats: Aberration Blood, Aberration Wild Shape, Assume Supernatural Ability.
Turn into a Choker for 5 hours a day for unlimited recharging.

An ExDruid 5 / Warlock 1 / Spellfire Channeler 4 / Blighter 10 even has 9th level spells.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:48:53 PM by SorO_Lost »
Tiers explained in 8 sentences. With examples!
[spoiler]Tiers break down into who has spellcasting more than anything else due to spells being better than anything else in the game.
6: Skill based. Commoner, Expert, Samurai.
5: Mundane warrior. Barbarian, Fighter, Monk.
4: Partial casters. Adapt, Hexblade, Paladin, Ranger, Spelltheif.
3: Focused casters. Bard, Beguiler, Dread Necromancer, Martial Adapts, Warmage.
2: Full casters. Favored Soul, Psion, Sorcerer, Wu Jen.
1: Elitists. Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.
0: Gods. StP Erudite, Illthid Savant, Pun-Pun, Rocks fall & you die.
[/spoiler]

Shigure

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2009, 11:04:19 PM »
Druid 5 / Warlock 1 / Spellfire Channeler X
Notable feats: Aberration Blood, Aberration Wild Shape, Assume Supernatural Ability.
Turn into a Choker for 5 hours a day for unlimited recharging.

An ExDruid 5 / Warlock 1 / Spellfire Channeler 4 / Blighter 10 even has 9th level spells.

Hmm...an interesting idea. I would never have thought to try something like this. I'll take a look and see if its something my groups/dms could handle.

Where might I find Assume Supernatural Ability? Its not listed in any of my usual sources.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 11:07:52 PM by Shigure »
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Chemus

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2009, 01:40:39 AM »
Savage species feat.
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Shigure

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2009, 02:05:59 AM »
Savage species feat.

Sigh...yeah I had a sneaking suspicion it might be there but didn't have time to check.
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Tsabrak

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2009, 12:25:21 PM »
What about a spellthief as a base.  Seems like a natural fit and a way to "charge up" nicely as well...

KellKheraptis

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Re: Help with Minmaxing Spellfire
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2009, 12:54:51 PM »
What about a spellthief as a base.  Seems like a natural fit and a way to "charge up" nicely as well...

I'll have to read up on Spellfire a bit more, as it's been a long while (was the inspiration for the custom tattoo on Kell's left arm that became so powerful it was hereditary), but I wonder how Master Spellthief would interact with that.
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