Author Topic: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge  (Read 12885 times)

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Lycanthromancer

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Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« on: November 20, 2009, 11:15:21 AM »
I have a kobold whose family is, due to backstory, a cross between humans and dragons, and therefore has the [human] and [dragonblooded] subtypes. Ergo, he (and his brother, a backup character in case my current positive energy evolved undead necropolitan kobold dies) can technically qualify for Jotunbrud (since this isn't Faerun, regional feat prereqs are waived).

This post got me to thinking about a rather interesting build:

Male kobold psychic warrior 2 [human, dragonblooded] with compression and expansion, using the web enhancement from RotD and Slight Build. Take Jotunbrud (Races of Faerun) and the Touchstone feat: Sunken City of Pazar (Sandstorm).

He now may elect to count as being Diminutive, Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge, and Gargantuan.

The way he does this?

His actual size is Small. Slight build lets him count as Tiny. Touchstone (alternately: expansion) allows him to count as Medium. Compression gives him Diminutive. Jotunbrud lets him count as Large. Expansion pushes off of Jotunbrud to allow him to count as Huge. Touchstone (springboarding off of both expansion and Jotunbrud) allows him to count as Gargantuan.

At level 7, he can become Fine (compression) and Colossal (expansion).

The DM already approved it, meaning it's legal in my game.

Question is, what size is he, actually? What size of equipment does he use? And what class should I gestalt him with?

[edit] You can qualify RAW via Human Blooded or Human Heritage.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 10:43:16 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
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Bloody Initiate

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2009, 11:58:12 AM »
Since you opted for flexibility (Getting larger or smaller) perhaps that should be your aim on the other side. Mechanically, you want to take advantage of your bigmclargehuge-ness.

Small sizes are good for avoiding detection. The AC bonus is negligible. The attack bonus is actually quite nice, especially when combined with the possibility you weren't detected. To avoid suffering die-size penalties you'll want to do your damaging non-weapon ranged attacks from small.

Large sizes are good for reach and thereby battlefield control. Also the damage boost is healthy.

I'm thinking a gish with a preference for stealth? Perhaps get into Warmind later to use your colossal-sized attacks with sweeping strikes. Honestly though, it's kinda hard to pick a role for someone who hasn't picked a size, or more accurately picks a different one any time he/she likes.
My first thought was factotum, not for any mechanical purpose just because I was trying to figure out who could take advantage of all those options.

Casters always do fine if made well.

My own gestalt character was an artificer, and while he mostly used metamagic spell trigger to rip people up with wands (Which you would do while tiny), he had expansion in his back pocket for when people got close (They didn't... ever).
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 12:00:08 PM by Bloody Initiate »
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2009, 12:00:54 PM »
Question is, what size is he, actually? What size of equipment does he use? And what class should I gestalt him with?
He's small, but can use Huge sized weapons if I read this right (even without Expansion), and can sneak around as if he were tiny (without Compression). That could make for some hilarity as a skinny little kobold sneaks up on you and whomps you with a giant hammer. :D
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Anklebite

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2009, 01:13:49 PM »
Question is, what size is he, actually? What size of equipment does he use? And what class should I gestalt him with?
He's small, but can use Huge sized weapons if I read this right (even without Expansion), and can sneak around as if he were tiny (without Compression). That could make for some hilarity as a skinny little kobold sneaks up on you and whomps you with a giant hammer. :D

finally, titan bloodline makes sense!  :lmao
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Havok4

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2009, 03:53:41 PM »
Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2009, 04:06:24 PM »
Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.

It also means that he can grapple any sized creature. No size category is more then two away!  :lmao

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2009, 04:12:58 PM »
Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.

It also means that he can grapple any sized creature. No size category is more then two away!  :lmao
Holy crap, it's Yoda!

"Judge me by my size, do you?"
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 04:17:53 PM »
Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.

It also means that he can grapple any sized creature. No size category is more then two away!  :lmao
Holy crap, it's Yoda!

"Judge me by my size, do you?"

Yoda, you say?
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 04:18:52 PM »
Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.

It also means that he can grapple any sized creature. No size category is more then two away!  :lmao
Holy crap, it's Yoda!

"Judge me by my size, do you?"

Yoda, you say?

Oh god... I'd seen that once, but along with that quote it takes on a whole new meaning...
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2009, 04:30:40 PM »
Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.

It also means that he can grapple any sized creature. No size category is more then two away!  :lmao
Holy crap, it's Yoda!

"Judge me by my size, do you?"

Yoda, you say?

Oh god... I'd seen that once, but along with that quote it takes on a whole new meaning...

:lol
"Weakness? Come test thy mettle against me, hairless ape, and we shall know who is weak!"

Quote from: J0lt
You caught a fish.  It was awesome.   :lol

awaken DM golem

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2009, 05:48:53 PM »
The way I read it, I see:
(a) ... Small
(b) ... count a as Tiny
(c) ... count a as Large
(d) ... count (a+T) as Medium
(e) ... count (c+T) as Huge
(f) ... all of the above
F being the right answer,
and then whether expansion or compression is in effect, generating
(g1) ... count as diminutive OR
(g2) ... count as Gargantuan

5 or 6 , out of 7 ain't bad.

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2009, 06:45:32 PM »
 :thumb for the MST3K reference.
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2009, 11:51:00 PM »
In the end, it all comes down to the jokes.

[SPOILER]
Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.
"It's not my size; it's how I use it!"

"Dude, it's larger than the tarrasque."

"But I use it well."

"Wait. No. I didn't say it was larger than the tarrasque's. I said it was larger than the tarrasque itself!"

"Well...yeah."

"..."

"ALL-NATURAL MALE WEB ENHANCEMENT, BITCH."

Question is, what size is he, actually? What size of equipment does he use? And what class should I gestalt him with?
He's small, but can use Huge sized weapons if I read this right (even without Expansion), and can sneak around as if he were tiny (without Compression). That could make for some hilarity as a skinny little kobold sneaks up on you and whomps you with a giant hammer. :D
*Manifests temporal acceleration.*

STOP!

Hammer time!

Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.

It also means that he can grapple any sized creature. No size category is more then two away!  :lmao
Push his buttons and watch him extend?

:thumb for the MST3K reference.
Glad somebody got it...

Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.

It also means that he can grapple any sized creature. No size category is more then two away!  :lmao
Holy crap, it's Yoda!

"Judge me by my size, do you?"

Yoda, you say?

Oh god... I'd seen that once, but along with that quote it takes on a whole new meaning...

:lol
I really don't think it matters whether you're gay, straight, all-, or none-of-the-above.

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« Last Edit: November 21, 2009, 01:30:28 AM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Endarire

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2009, 09:19:23 PM »
Imagine that kobold's hammerspace!
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2009, 11:27:01 PM »
Also his grapple check will be insane, I think he can still count as large even when compressed to diminutive size due to Jotunbrud. It would be really funny to see this 3 inch tall or so kobold pin a full size human. Take levels in swordsage for the various throw maneuvers, they would work well with a  combination like this.
He could potentially pin most dragons, assuming he buffs his Strength a bit.

Imagine that kobold's hammerspace!
Oh, I am.
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

snakeman830

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2009, 12:27:37 AM »
The sad part is that you don't need to do any sort of background finageling to get away with this.  Savage Species has rituals in it that let you change your subtype or gain new ones.  Just swap the Reptilian subtype to Human and you can pull this off.
I am constantly amazed by how many DM's ban Tomb of Battle.  The book doesn't even exist!

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telehax

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2009, 12:31:29 AM »
Sorry to be a party pooper:

1. Jotunbrud says Large, not one size larger, you can't combine it with expansion. Or you could, but only to count as large while being huge I guess.
2. Expansion does not stack with Enlarge Person.

EDIT: Except your DM approved it. Yeah I think I need to read better. Nevermind.

Chemus

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2009, 01:25:28 AM »
As long as he wields a Huge Light Hammer, Jotunbrud will let him actually secrete that Huge Hammer on his person(!) with ranks in Sleight of Hand. ...ew.
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Prime32

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2009, 06:21:28 AM »
As long as he wields a Huge Light Hammer, Jotunbrud will let him actually secrete that Huge Hammer on his person(!) with ranks in Sleight of Hand. ...ew.
I'll say. :twitch
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[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

Emy

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Re: Tiny Von BigMcLargeHuge
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2009, 10:06:47 AM »
The sad part is that you don't need to do any sort of background finageling to get away with this.  Savage Species has rituals in it that let you change your subtype or gain new ones.  Just swap the Reptilian subtype to Human and you can pull this off.

If I recall correctly, it doesn't let you do this with the Human, Elf, or Dwarf subtypes. There may be a couple others as well.