Author Topic: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.  (Read 10244 times)

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KellKheraptis

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CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« on: November 14, 2009, 04:49:19 PM »
Ok, so I wanna see how high we can take a Mystic Ranger.  Assume that RT's Falling Star variant is also available.  Sword of the Arcane Order means the entire Wizard list is now available.  With cheese, that's every spell list.  Without, it's still a substantial power-up.  Now, we've got a 2 good save full BAB class with it's casting stat raising the bad save (so all three good saves for all intents), and full caster level per class level (+2 after the ACF from CC, plus a bonus spell per level).  Now, the big guns in 3.5 as everyone knows are 9th level spells.  Sublime Chord makes this easy, but we can do better, I think.  We're already getting 9th level maneuvers, possibly from all but one or two disciplines if we can PsyRef, and we're already naturally full BAB with good class features (full initiating with HiPS is secksay).  So the question remains : how to get 9th level spells without gutting out the lower level ones.  Versatile Spellcaster comes to mind, though that doesn't fulfill the second requirement.  It's feat heavy, but snagging Extra Spell a few times with Planar Touchstone can do it too.  Are there any ranger variants that overemphasize the spellcasting abilities while keeping full BAB?
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Aliment

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2009, 07:14:58 PM »
I keep hearing about Sword of the ARcane order.  Can you describe its abilities?
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Takanaki

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2009, 10:31:59 PM »
Mock the 20 level build. I wanna see how your cramming all this shit into 1 mystic ranger, also what dragon is that from again.

KellKheraptis

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2009, 10:36:34 PM »
Mock the 20 level build. I wanna see how your cramming all this shit into 1 mystic ranger, also what dragon is that from again.

330 something I think.  It used to have a whole page on 339 in the ACF thread.  Radical Taoist made the Falling Star Ranger, a Sublime Way endowed variant, and WS Ranger is UA.  Variant chaining = eeeeevillll :)
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Takanaki

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2009, 11:22:25 PM »
You should work on the build without Radical's homebrew variants. Just my opinion, Dragon is a published source but the CO boards aren't.

Also where on the grand scheme of classes would you place the Mystic Ranger? It only has 6th level casting right?


altpersona

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2009, 11:34:51 PM »
how does the ranger get >4th lvl spells?

i also suggest skipping homebrew, but its your thread, do as you please..
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Bozwevial

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2009, 11:41:32 PM »
how does the ranger get >4th lvl spells?

Sublime Chord? That's if you can manage to snag bardic music (perhaps with a one-level dip).

altpersona

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2009, 11:57:45 PM »
i dont know SC backwards and forward, will have to look..
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Bloody Initiate

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2009, 12:24:28 AM »
i dont know SC backwards and forward, will have to look..

The short of it is that Sublime Chord is one of those special PrCs that instead of giving you "+X of existing spellcasting class" it introduces a spell progression of its own (Like all those PrCs that get you 9th level spells early by ignoring any previous casting you might have had). The way to take advantage of it is to enter the PrC by a different means than was intended.

Sublime Chord's 1st level grants two 4th level spells and one 5th at and then progresses from there all the way up to 9th level spells. So you take a class with crippled spell progression (preferrably not a bard since that's who the class was designed for) like a ranger or duskblade, and take weird feats, ACFs, and such to get into the class, and suddenly your spell progression changes to something far superior than it would have become had you remained in your original base class.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 12:37:53 AM by Bloody Initiate »
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Bozwevial

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2009, 12:27:55 AM »
Although, like I said, you need bardic music to get in. You can get that in a variety of ways, if I may quote Surreal's Lists of Stuff:
[spoiler]Bardic Music - (any prestige class that grants bardic music also stacks with bard levels for number of uses per day)
Bard
Virtuoso 1, ecl 8, Complete Adventurer
Fochlucan Lyrist 1, ecl 11, Complete Adventurer
Dragonsong Lyrist 1, ecl 8, Draconomicon, functions like bardic music but different name, does not stack
Warrior Skald 1, ecl 6, Races of Faerun
Spellsinger 1, ecl 6, Races of Faerun
Troubadour of Stars 1, ecl ?, Book of Exalted Deeds[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2009, 01:21:16 AM »
You should work on the build without Radical's homebrew variants. Just my opinion, Dragon is a published source but the CO boards aren't.

Also where on the grand scheme of classes would you place the Mystic Ranger? It only has 6th level casting right?



To answer two questions at once, it has 0th-5th level spells.  And yeah, I know...RT's is homebrew, but it's homebrew that was approved by the DM in question.  The next best thing is Erudite using shaky conversion mechanics (ArcSwSage).

EDIT : And without 9's, I would put them at a strong Tier 3.  With access to 9's, particularly if it can be done without leaving Mystic Ranger, I'd say mid to upper Tier 1, since they're nowhere near as gimped or forced to expend resources in an AMF.  Not quite an incantatrix or SCM, but then again CoD-zilla wishes it could match an SCM.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2009, 01:23:38 AM by KellKheraptis »
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deuxhero

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2009, 01:49:02 AM »
Don't forget wildshape as your fighting style.

KellKheraptis

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2009, 02:11:11 AM »
Don't forget wildshape as your fighting style.

Touche`.  Wildshape Mystic Ranger is IMO lower end Tier 2/Top of Tier 3.  They've got the destructive capability of a Tier 2, but limited to melee, and have more versatility in spells than the Tier 3's.  If the game only goes to level 10, they're Tier 0.
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johnboy069

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2009, 03:19:02 AM »
My favorite mystic ranger/wildshape ranger build nabs just enough sneak attack (either rogue or SS for assasin's stance) and sword of the arcane order to go into daggerspell shaper.
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ninjarabbit

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2009, 10:32:32 AM »
If you're going the wildshape route I'd suggest a level of monk and the ascetic hunter feat to be a pouncing leopard with all those attacks. You can also dip into sacred exorcist for turn undead or cloistered cleric for turn undead, knowledge devotion, and 2 domains.

Takanaki

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2009, 01:50:27 PM »
Could you do something like Mystic Ranger X > Sublime Chord 1 > Abjurant Champion (or other full casting/full BAB PrC) and end up with 19/20 BAB and full casting?

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2009, 02:06:05 PM »
has any 'official' clarification / info on how sublime chord works been published? idk that you can get SC casting advanced w/ another +1 cl feature.

imho it looks like you need to take 9/10 of SC to get lvl 9 spells.

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Bozwevial

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2009, 02:07:35 PM »
has any 'official' clarification / info on how sublime chord works been published? idk that you can get SC casting advanced w/ another +1 cl feature.

imho it looks like you need to take 9/10 of SC to get lvl 9 spells.

I don't think so. The class actually has its own spellcasting progression, which would appear to work with PrCs that advance spellcasting.

bearsarebrown

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Re: CO and TO : Mystic Ranger with goodies.
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2009, 02:26:50 PM »
has any 'official' clarification / info on how sublime chord works been published? idk that you can get SC casting advanced w/ another +1 cl feature.

Why does it need clarification? It's an arcane spell casting class that you are advancing.