Author Topic: Diabolical GODness  (Read 6071 times)

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Irthos Levethix

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Diabolical GODness
« on: June 09, 2008, 01:34:28 PM »
Bear with me here, I don't have my books with me and this build is far from done, but at least I have a stub :P

So, coming into a game at 12th level, I'm thinking about playing a Wiz3/Master Specialist6/Diabolist2 (out of Book of Vile Darkness), going Focused Specialist into either Conj or Trans, and dropping Evo, Enchant, and Necro.  Stats can be 32 point buy, or rolled (but I don't have a roll yet).  I'm going to play a Tiefling, so at this level I'll have 7 feats (2 from flaws, although I haven't found a 2nd flaw that seems acceptable yet [NonCombatant is 1st])

Trying to remember off the top of my head, I think MaSpec requires Spell Focus (blah), and Diabolist needs Evil Brand and Corrupt Spell for feats, so that leaves 4 open. 

This gives me CL 12th, lets me drop my familiar for something else and still get an Imp later (which is cool, since we're playing in Hell and I'm a Tiefling), plus other goodies.  My question(s) to the collective intelligence out there are, How Optimal is this, are there ways to make it better, and are there any neat tricks I should know about? 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 12:39:49 PM by Irthos Levethix »
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AfterCrescent

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Re: Pimp my Wizard!
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2008, 01:43:54 PM »
Are you using the Lesser Tiefling from PGtF or paying off the LA?
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Irthos Levethix

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Re: Pimp my Wizard!
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2008, 01:50:25 PM »
Well, I was going to buy it off, but maybe now I'll go look at the Lesser Tiefling... what book is that?
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AfterCrescent

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Re: Pimp my Wizard!
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2008, 01:54:13 PM »
Player's Guide to Faerun. All the cool stuff about being a tiefling, except you are a humanoid (planetouched) instead of an outsider (native). LA +0
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Irthos Levethix

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Re: Pimp my Wizard!
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2008, 02:08:33 PM »
I would get more out of Polymorph if I went with the LA then, huh.  Seems like that's the route to go, then.  3000xp is pretty paltry compared to that.  I'll look it up when I get home though.
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altpersona

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #5 on: June 09, 2008, 03:24:34 PM »
over 20 lvls 3kxp is cheap for the ability to turn into a planetar, or what ever else fits your needs at the time..
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Straw_Man

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2008, 04:23:02 PM »

Planetouched ... so essentially your humanoid with a sense of entitlement?  :smirk Does the planetouched descriptor give anything? I'm asking in conjunction with Alter Self and Polymorph but if theres something else noteworth about them I'm curious.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

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Irthos Levethix

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 04:48:05 PM »
I love how every time I post a build idea, I get very little actual imput as to feats and such I should look at.  Either no one gives a shit, or I'm already doing the right thing. 

Or maybe I'm not using the posting guidelines... NAH!
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Prime32

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Re: Pimp my Wizard!
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 04:52:46 PM »
I would get more out of Polymorph if I went with the LA then, huh.  Seems like that's the route to go, then.  3000xp is pretty paltry compared to that.  I'll look it up when I get home though.
I think PGtF also has a 1st-level feat that lets you count as a native outsider.
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[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
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Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
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Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

AfterCrescent

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 04:57:05 PM »
It does. Otherworldly. Gotta talk to Tshern about allowing non-humans to take it. Or take the feat in races of destiny that lets you count as a human. It's a two feat combo, unless Tshern rules otherwise.
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Prime32

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2008, 05:00:12 PM »
It does. Otherworldly. Gotta talk to Tshern about allowing non-humans to take it. Or take the feat in races of destiny that lets you count as a human. It's a two feat combo, unless Tshern rules otherwise.
I could have sworn it was a regional thing more than a racial one, allowing elves from certain areas to take it as well.
My work
The tier system in a nutshell:
[spoiler]Tier 6: A cartographer.
Tier 5: An expert cartographer or a decent marksman.
Tier 4: An expert marksman.
Tier 3: An expert marksman, cartographer and chef who can tie strong knots and is trained in hostage negotiation or a marksman so good he can shoot down every bullet fired by a minigun while armed with a rusted single-shot pistol that veers to the left.
Tier 2: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything, or the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.
Tier 1: Someone with teleportation, mind control, time manipulation, intangibility, the ability to turn into an exact duplicate of anything and the ability to see into the future with perfect accuracy.[/spoiler]

AfterCrescent

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2008, 05:03:34 PM »
Humans, elves, and Halflings. It is a regional one, but tieflings are none of the above
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Straw_Man

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2008, 05:10:17 PM »

Which makes no sense. Outsiders & planetouched are manifestly more likely to be Otherworldy. Sometimes I wonder what the writer's are on  :shrug
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Tshern

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2008, 05:40:11 PM »
I would get more out of Polymorph if I went with the LA then, huh.  Seems like that's the route to go, then.  3000xp is pretty paltry compared to that.  I'll look it up when I get home though.
Wow! So all your enemies now are not just some sucky beatsticks anymore. Polymorph makes you foes happy too.

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Nunkuruji

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2008, 05:42:08 PM »
So, I've not looked at Diabolist until today, but looking over it, I certainly like the flavor...

One of the requirements is the ability to cast Shriveling, which is a 1st level Wizard Necromancy spell. This may cause some trouble for your specialization plan, unless you resort to some cheese. Otherwise Knowledge Planes(8) is your gating factor, leaving earliest entry at level 6.

Diabolism: extra d6's against good targets... ok if you're planning on fighting the forces of good. Kind of cool to deal a bit of damage with non-blasting spells. However, very limited uses per day.
Imp Familiar: Ok, you get a familiar even if you dropped yours with a specialization alternate, see the Familiar Handbooks for fun and exciting tricks. So, this guy is an Outsider, which might mean some interesting polymorph tricks, but it advances as a familiar that is keyed off of just the Diabolist level, so it's HD are going to be a problem there...
Vile Diabolism: Here we go. Violate Spell without metamagic cost increase. Keep people from healing. Violate Spell is a +1 adjustment.

Ultimately this seems very weak from an optimization standpoint. Incantatrix, etc. could just as easily pick up Violate Spell and sling around vile spells for free as well. Seems more suited to a DM villain, as vile damage is usually more of a pita for PCs.

BoSheck

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2008, 06:17:51 PM »
Champions of Valor has alternative regions for Faerun that depend more on 'who' you are then where.  Having a celestial attended birth lets you pick up otherworldly.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2008, 06:23:28 PM by BoSheck »

Straw_Man

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2008, 06:21:17 PM »
Champions of Valor has alternative regions for Faerun that depend more on 'who' ho are then where.  Having a celestial attended birth lets you pick up otherworldly.

So, just thinking out loud here, if the parent in question were a celestial, does that qualify as 'attending'. NOw we're optimising back story *wry smile*.
"No, no, don't think, Maya." Ritsuko chided. "We will not gattai the Evas or their pilots.

Such thoughts lead inevitably to transformation sequences."

Tshern

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2008, 06:28:21 PM »
I'd like to mention that the campaign in particular is *not* against good opponents though there might be some of those too.

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AfterCrescent

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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2008, 01:50:15 AM »
Random note: I'm reading Frank and K's stuff and they have a tiefling without LA and with outsider type, so feel free to make use of that :P
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Re: Diabolical Goodness
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2008, 07:27:59 AM »

Which makes no sense. Outsiders & planetouched are manifestly more likely to be Otherworldy. Sometimes I wonder what the writer's are on  :shrug

Since the feat makes you a native outsider, it makes no sense to let planetouched take them, since they already are outsiders.

I see no harm in letting lesser planetouched take otherworldly though. I have always felt that they were too weak to warrant a LA, yet a tad too strong to be allowed at LA+0. This would effectively allow them to trade off their LA in exchange for their 1st lv feat, which seems fair enough. :)
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