Author Topic: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin  (Read 6961 times)

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tomasmans

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My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« on: October 23, 2009, 06:19:25 AM »
So this is my first post in this forum and i hope this is the right place..

i give u link where u can find my build:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/20990909/Maybe_i_can_do_better_with_my__MM_wizard

this is the problem:

We find a lvl 20 assassin that also have an item that give him samthing like 30-45 spell resistances (dunno exactly), and have gret ref and will saves bud poor cos save.
I need to find a way to see him when he is hidden and a nice way to kill him...

I'm lvl 12 now.

thx for hep me
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 12:21:50 PM by tomasmans »

j0lt

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2009, 07:03:36 AM »
A little more information might help.
Is he straight Rogue 10/Assassin 10?

You have access to level 6 spells.

Mislead, Guards and Wards, Contingency are all pretty standard ways of keeping him away from you and if he does "get" you, you have a backup plan.

Need to find him?  Glitterdust!  It's a second level spell.  Spam the area.  Once you get him with it, he'll have a -40 penalty to hide, and invisibility won't help him at all!

Once you find him, hit him with Geas/Quest!  No save, no SR.  Tell him to go become a paladin or something!  :smirk

If you really need to kill him: Circle of Death, Disintegrate or Cloudkill should at least weaken him.  For a bit of extra fun, Transmute Rock to Mud under his feet, then Transmute Mud to Rock to encase him in stone!
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BowenSilverclaw

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 08:18:36 AM »
J0lt had some pretty good suggestions :)

Sounds a bit like a DM's pet though...
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tomasmans

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 09:27:00 AM »

shandiris

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2009, 10:11:23 AM »
A little more information might help.
Is he straight Rogue 10/Assassin 10?

You have access to level 6 spells.

Mislead, Guards and Wards, Contingency are all pretty standard ways of keeping him away from you and if he does "get" you, you have a backup plan.

Need to find him?  Glitterdust!  It's a second level spell.  Spam the area.  Once you get him with it, he'll have a -40 penalty to hide, and invisibility won't help him at all!

Once you find him, hit him with Geas/Quest!  No save, no SR.  Tell him to go become a paladin or something!  :smirk

If you really need to kill him: Circle of Death, Disintegrate or Cloudkill should at least weaken him.  For a bit of extra fun, Transmute Rock to Mud under his feet, then Transmute Mud to Rock to encase him in stone!

It has 10 minutes casting time and SR: yes, so gaes won't work at all. the rest are good suggestions though.


i give u link where u can find my build:
http://community.wizards.com/go/post/reply/75882/20990909/Maybe_i_can_do_better_with_my__MM_wizard&pid=361516537&post_num=1


Link doesn't work

j0lt

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2009, 11:02:20 AM »
http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/spells.php?ID=3218

seems to have SR... :(

Dang, the SRD I was looking at had no mention of the SR.  Ah well...
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Hallack

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2009, 11:15:22 AM »
Contingency and especially Craft Contingency would be great friends in this match.  For example had a wizard in a recent game who had crafted contingency Assay Spell Resistane and True casting that were triggered by the casting of certain spells.  SR becomes meaningless.

We really could help with more ideas if we knew more particulars.  What is the likley point of enounter going to be like?  Is the assassin going to be hunting you down catching you by surprise?  Are you goign to be hunting him down or do you even know of the threat he poses in character?

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2009, 11:16:58 AM »
The Blindsight spell could help you "see" him. Or Corpse Candle. I don't remember what school either are in. I'd guess Blindsight is Transmutation, which surely you didn't ban. :P (Didn't look at your sheet.) I think both are in the Spell Compendium.

You could use Contact Other Plane to figure out more about him, and the best way to ambush him. You can take 10 on Intelligence checks, by the way. So you should never fail the ones for that spell, as a wizard.
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Hallack

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2009, 11:38:36 AM »
Ah, I see you have the Abrupt jaunt immediate magic.  That alone will help you a good bit :)

If you can get some sort of immunity to daze then you may want to look at Celerity from PHBII for an immediate action Standard action.  If nothing else that would let you teleport out when he does strike.
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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2009, 11:42:59 AM »
Ah, I see you have the Abrupt jaunt immediate magic.  That alone will help you a good bit :)
He needs a way to not be flat-footed, also, since you can't take immediate actions when flat-footed, and I'm sure that the assassin will at least try to strike while he's flat-footed. That's a tricky one at level 12. If you can get a custom item of legacy with the cunning ability, do it.

Contingency could also help with that, just to get you acting so you're no longer flat-footed. And if you could get Blindsight/etc so that you know he's coming, that could also make it so you're not actually flat-footed.
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Braithwaite

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2009, 12:35:48 PM »
Gaining the undead type advantages essentially makes him unable to harm you, since he can't sneak attack, assassinate, or poison undead. Necropolitan could do it, but I think there is a spell that gives you all the undead advantages (I forget the name), which you could contingency.

That way, you could wait for him to attack you, shrug off his attack, and do whatever trick you have in mind before he hides again.

Hallack

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2009, 01:28:12 PM »
Undead immune to daze?  I don't think so but too lazy at the moment to look it up :)
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Bauglir

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2009, 01:43:21 PM »
If you could become a necropolitan (lose level 12, which is unfortunate because level 12 is generally awesome since you get a feat and an ability boost and all your saves and BAB advance, but may be tolerable since you keep 6th level spells), and retrain a feat to Lifesense, he will not be able to hide from you, period. You also shut down his primary means of hurting you, unless your DM is savvy enough to pick up one of those methods of dealing sneak attack to undead. If he has, he'll probably rule you're not immune to death attack (even though you quite clearly are, as it's a Fort save that doesn't affect objects, but I digress).

Once you've found him, use a Belt of Battle (caster's best friend; if you have the dough, buy at least 4 and and put on a new one every combat) to drop a Dimensional Anchor and a domed Wall of Stone. You'll need to find some way to beat that SR, though... Others probably have better advice on that, but Assay Spell Resistance can help, and Arcane Mastery or whatever that feat that lets you take 10 on caster level checks can help you avoid bad rolls. You may need some Celerity cheese to get all these actions off, I dunno. Anyway, once you've got him trapped in there, you have a while to figure out what you're going to do.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

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tomasmans

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2009, 02:04:13 PM »
i try to give you all i know about him and answer some of ur advices:

1) as i have heart of eart, heart of air... allways on, i'm immune to sneak attack and critic.
2) i don't know more than waht i already told u about her.
3) the idea of the corpse candle seems nice to me but i'm just afraid that he can easly destry it...
4) i think his SR is like 50.... so the solution is destroy the medallon (if i can ifnd it) or making spells with no SR and if possible with fort saves or no savese since she got really nice ref and will saves.
5) i thought also about plannar binding or polymorph or alterself or summon monster... to find sm1 with spot check really hight...
6) beeng immune to deze if i understand well, will allow me to make like 5 spells in a round if i prepare 5 celerity?
btw find a way to became immune to deze i think is a really nice way.

maybe i find samthing nice...
scrolling down here:
http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndLive/SearchList.php
i fnd samthing that maybe i forgot...

Orb of fire:
make a rangedtouch attack if i hit him:
11d6(at my lvl) + 33 (war mage) + 5 ( knowledge devotion) = 75 average damage and:
In
addition, a creature struck by an orb
of fi re must make a Fortitude save or
be dazed for 1 round instead of being
sickened.

what about this solution?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 02:56:13 PM by tomasmans »

Tshern

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2009, 03:19:57 PM »
Undead immune to daze?  I don't think so but too lazy at the moment to look it up :)
No.

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TT30

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2009, 04:08:58 PM »
If assasin is stupid and doen't know you may be able to win against it, but if it is optimized assasin that plays his strenghts it will kill you no matter what you do. It is CR20 encounter and most assasins can use UMD and even with NPC wealth lvl 20 character is rich enough to do just about anything.

It is hard to destroy corpse candle, but it doesn't really work because it is such small area that it shows and duration 1min/lvl is not enought to keep it around.

Lvl20 assasin is probably master of stealth so it is hard to beat that with spot/listen. At least +30 required and it is probably not enough.

You need immediate action to use Celerity so, no 5 is not possible. When it is your turn tou can use your norman standart action, then celerity as this rounds swift action to get second standart action then end your turn and immiditly use your next turns immediate action to cast Celerity again to get third standart action in row, you can do that if you are immune to daze, but it is not that easy to get that immunity. At least if you can't take feats from eberron->dragon mark+mark of dauntless

Orb of fire is exellent spell, but to get +33 from warmage you need very high int. Warmages edge gives your int bonus to damage only once. Also it requires touch attack to hit and assasin is usually high dex class and touch AC can be quite high.

Anyway true problem is to survive the first round when that assasin ambush you and probably get surprise round before you even throw iniative. Hearth of spells are good start if you are flatfooted so that celerity can't help you probably die anyway. If you can get cunning weapon it would help lot, but even with it you are far from safe. If you can't get cunning weapon psionic cohort with detect hostile intent and zone of alertness can help if assasin is not immune to mind affecting...

If i would have lvl 20 assasin and i would want to kill lvl12 wizard, i would probably trust my stealt&darkhidden feat and attack with antimagic torc, death attack and poisoned blade.

Or i could use stealth and possibly disquise and poison him with black lotus extract.

Or if i would fear him i would use money, UMD and scrolls to do some spell caster trics like scroll of power word kill or maybe scroll of gate or candle of invocation...

Or well, there is lot of ways to kill some low level wizard with lvl 20 resources. Maybe hire grunts to do some grappling and dispelling against that wizard and his party and use sniper's eye to do death attack from range. Kill someone, retreat and send in some more grunts and try again. Implacaple pursuer hired teleporter helps to stay in touch when party try to flee...

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2009, 04:17:26 PM »
Undead immune to daze?  I don't think so but too lazy at the moment to look it up :)
No.

not 100% at least.

i have had trouble finding a way to daze them.
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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2009, 04:31:39 PM »
My suggestion:

Let him kill you and then have yourself true-resurrected at a temple.  Skip town for a while (level up elsewhere) and come back later for vengeance.

Or you could just try beating him using wizard stuff.  Is your party backing you up?

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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2009, 09:01:11 PM »
Cast lesser planar binding to nab a nightmare (which you then dominate or otherwise coerce) and have it cast astral projection on you. Congratulations; you now have an extra life.

Just make sure to hide your body somewhere safe.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 09:02:42 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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Re: My lvl 12 wizard vs lvl 20 assassin
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2009, 09:39:52 PM »
Anyone else here think that the DM giving him a custom item for SR 50 is complete bullshit? And I'll bet it's some kind of "artifact" so destroying it will be next to impossible. In fact, I'll just go ahead and say that sending an Assassin against the party who's eight levels higher than you is pretty bullshit even before taking custom items intended to screw you specifically into account.

Does your character know about the item that the Assassin has which is giving him the SR? If so, a simple Locate Item spell might work. If not, Contact Other Plane does seem like a good idea, just make sure to ask, "Does he possess any noteworthy items I should worry about?" Another option is Arcane Sight + Permanency, although if the Assassin is wearing more than one powerful Abjuration item it won't get you far.

Anyway, if you do find the item in question, obliterate it with a powerful sonic or acid spell, preferably one that doesn't allow a saving throw. Orb of Acid should work pretty well (avg damage 42). If he's wearing the item, it should have no more than 11 AC (10 +8 size, -5 dex, -2), but if he's wearing it under clothes or something that becomes a pain. The problem is that if the item is indeed an artifact of some kind, it could well have more HP than the Assassin does (or if the DMs a real asshole, it might be a Major Artifact and instead be impossible to destroy). :banghead