Author Topic: Gesalt advice- first timer here  (Read 6486 times)

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NecroticBanana

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Gesalt advice- first timer here
« on: October 13, 2009, 06:33:34 AM »
Ok so a buddy of mine wants us to roll up gesalt characers, i've never done this before, and am not all that good at rule smashing anyway lol. We will be 10th level and probably evil in alignment if it matters (something about taking over a dutchy) anyway, i'm not sure where to go with this...both he and the other players are devious rule bending monsters, and i want to make sure i can survive...and maybe even suprise them at there own game....any ideas?

oh quick note, he's pretty much opened up the field on resorsces...only exception; the fighter class from the phb is out and no full on necromancer (thats to smack down a player with a habit of making lousy necromancers)
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 06:44:45 AM by NecroticBanana »
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sonofzeal

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2009, 06:49:03 AM »
There's tones of good gestalt builds out there.  Things to remember....

1)  MAD is still the enemy.  Make sure both classes work off the same set of ability scores, because, well, they'll need to.

2)  Synergize class features.  Barbarian//Wizard may sound awesome, but if you can't cast spells while raging then you rather lose out.

3)  A few classes make famously good gestalts.  Monks and Factotums are generally much improved by the gestalting process, as their class features bolster the class they're paired with.

4)  A few classes are just famously good, and rock as much in Gestalt as ever (or even more, now that they can cover their weaknesses).  Druids, Wizards, and Tome of Battle classes especially deserve a mention here.



Shortcut:  Pick any two of Wizard, Warblade, and Factotum, based on your playstyle and preference.  Gestalt them.  Win.

kurashu

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2009, 07:26:48 AM »
Facototum of War, quick and dirty. Just take Font of Inspiration as all of your feats. Maybe take Adaptive Style as well. But basically, you just say "I get all these action all these rounds and use them to beat the shit out of stuff."

Or you could go Sorcerer 6/Geomancer 6/War Weaver 5/Sacred Exoricst 3\\Favored Soul 20. DMM(Persist) + Arcane Spellsurge + Eldritch Tapestry. That lets you be the ultimate buffer.

j0lt

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2009, 08:06:36 AM »
While not supremely powerful, Wizard//Rogue gives you more options than you can shake a stick at, and both classes have Int as a main ability score!
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Maat_Mons

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2009, 09:30:05 AM »
Cloistered cleric is a good gestalt option.  Well, any full caster is a good option, but cloistered cleric adds in 3 domains and 6 + int skills.  Archivist can be ridiculous depending on what non-cleric spells your DM allows you to access.  Psion has the control body + solicit psicrystal combo that allows you to full attack without using your actions.  Any of those work well opposite any strong melee-oriented class. 

Mushroom Ninja

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2009, 10:39:22 AM »
If LA buyoff is allowed, Gestalt can let you to use all sorts of cool races. 

tristanayres

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2009, 11:01:13 AM »
Do you have any ideas for abuild in mind at all? Do you have a end game idea of what you want your character to be capable of? How confortable are you with casters?

A build that I have had some luck with is Monk10//Psion 10 the feats you take are semi dependant on if you wanta mobile caster or an unarmored gish type character. The way I built mine was a Battlefiled controler who happened to be able to make a tumble check. Its also nice to have a caster that can escape a grapple. If you would like some rule bending there is the Ascetic Psion from Secrets of Sarlona which basically lets you stack your psion/monk levels for Monk AC bonus and also lets you add Int to Ac  in place of Wis. So with a liberal DM you could have a 20th level monk AC with a 10th lvl character. (Not all that great really but an improvement on a caster anyway)

Thanks for your time

Mushroom

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2009, 11:44:53 AM »
I like Druid/Planar Shepard//Cleric

Tshern

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 11:53:54 AM »
I like Druid/Planar Shepard//Cleric
I actually played Druid 10/Planar Shepherd 10/Cloistered Cleric 20 in a campaign where no items were allowed in the beginning. I was the only optimizer in the party and just walked around pretending I was useless until shit would start hitting the fan.

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Tonymitsu

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 01:07:40 PM »
Quote
1)  MAD is still the enemy.  Make sure both classes work off the same set of ability scores, because, well, they'll need to.

Quote
If LA buyoff is allowed, Gestalt can let you to use all sorts of cool races. 

Quote
Do you have any ideas for abuild in mind at all? Do you have a end game idea of what you want your character to be capable of? How confortable are you with casters?


Main highlights.

I'll also add progressing two different casting classes makes you extremely powerful.  And that classes which are not normally as powerful for casters due to losing too many caster levels can be made more useful by progressing your caster on the other side of your build during "dead levels".

I once played a  Warblade 4/Wu Jen 1/Incantatrix 5/Jade Phoenix Mage 10//Wizard 5/Swiftblade 10/Abjurant Champion 5.
+19 BAB, 9th level arcane Spells, 7th level Wu Jen spells (Body Outside Body literally ended encounters), 9th level Warblade maneuvers, shared persisting with Incantatrix, and so many class features that sometimes I forgot to make use of them all.


Rebel7284

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 01:11:13 PM »
Two prestige classes during the same level is not by default allowed in gestalt.
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Tshern

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2009, 01:21:33 PM »
Two prestige classes during the same level is not by default allowed in gestalt.
A surprisingly common mistake around here, I seem. Perhaps a lot of parties houserule to allow it.

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Tonymitsu

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2009, 01:32:02 PM »
Two prestige classes during the same level is not by default allowed in gestalt.
A surprisingly common mistake around here, I seem. Perhaps a lot of parties houserule to allow it.

I always assumed most people houserule it that way.

Otherwise there's not much point in doing anything besides [Insert T1 Class]20 on one side of your build.

"Hey guys, check out what my monk can do with a few extra..."
/Time Stop, /Earthquake, /Genesis, /I.W.I.N.
"...."

Yeah you can come up with some really neat stuff, but in the end you can accomplish much of the same thing with melee build//Wizard 20, or Caster buid//Cleric 20, and then do other stuff as well.

But yeah if you're DM is doing it the right way then ignore the stuff I said.  :P

bearsarebrown

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2009, 01:36:28 PM »
Gestalt also opens up large templates and advanced monsters to optimization.

Bauglir

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2009, 01:42:22 PM »
That depends on what your DM does about LA. I believe the strictest interpretation of the rules takes LA out of both sides of your progression, since it simply sets you at a lower level. And having LA take up only one side, I can tell you from experience, is even more broken than normal gestalt, since those abilities now come without the downside of having no hit dice. So gestalt either makes LA even worse than normal, or crazy-awesome.
So you end up stuck in an endless loop, unable to act, forever.

In retrospect, much like Keanu Reeves.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2009, 03:05:39 PM »
That depends on what your DM does about LA. I believe the strictest interpretation of the rules takes LA out of both sides of your progression, since it simply sets you at a lower level. And having LA take up only one side, I can tell you from experience, is even more broken than normal gestalt, since those abilities now come without the downside of having no hit dice. So gestalt either makes LA even worse than normal, or crazy-awesome.

Yep. The ability to not lose CL or HD from the LAs is insane. You can throw things like Half-Fey/Half-Minotaur/Feral on any build and make it significantly stronger for little to no price.

NecroticBanana

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2009, 08:45:09 PM »
ok, so i think i'm gonna stay fairly basic on my first build and go with warmage/sorceror. that way i can use my warmage spells for the damage and save all my sorc spells for utility. maybe take battle caster to bring in some light armor....still hammering out the rest of the details as we speak....er..type.
You magnificent Bastard

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Rebel7284

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2009, 08:56:45 PM »
ok, so i think i'm gonna stay fairly basic on my first build and go with warmage/sorceror. that way i can use my warmage spells for the damage and save all my sorc spells for utility. maybe take battle caster to bring in some light armor....still hammering out the rest of the details as we speak....er..type.
Warmages still fail. :)

a) Blasting is comparatively weak, Enlarge Person does a LOT more than Magic Missle, etc.
b) Getting a Sorcerer with a slightly expanded spell list is VERY weak for gestalt.
Negative level on a chicken would make it a wight the next day.  Chicken the other wight meat. -borg286

Braithwaite

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2009, 09:31:30 PM »
You have just caused everyone on the Min/Max board to twitch and writhe in pain. Warmage is still a loser, you have bad hp and saves, and your classes don't complement each other very well. If you really have to be a blaster with some utility spells on the other side, Focused Specialist Wizard/Cleric is a better gestalt build.

NecroticBanana

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Re: Gesalt advice- first timer here
« Reply #19 on: October 13, 2009, 11:08:28 PM »
lol ok ok ok...dont throw the rotten fruit yet lol...i've been looking i over and i'm changing it anyway...how bout...duskblade/sorc?

::: ducks:::
You magnificent Bastard

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78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

No man should outlive his fictitious wizard -Homer Simpson

Any legal defense starting by: ''I was drunk'' is bound to fail.-Alastar