Author Topic: New gestalt game  (Read 5626 times)

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KellKheraptis

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #20 on: October 11, 2009, 03:20:17 AM »
I'm calling BS on the entire restriction, myself.  Where do you draw the line?  Is Windwalker banned for a character wanting to play a storm mage because it's Full BAB?  Do we shitcan Ruathmari Battlemage for having partial BAB?  How about Suel Archanamach?  That seems just a tad bit gish, so must also be banned.  Where's the line?  A nazi DM could conceivably extrapolate just about any class as progressing more than one thing, and ban everything down to core with 0 PrCs.

The slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy.  

And if we get into dual progressing PrC's, we're in homebrew territory, which is sort of inherent to Gesault.  In that case my suggestion is take JPM, give it most of Incantatrix, and conquer the world.  And if you get into trouble, the contingency keyed to emerald immolation means you have a get out of jail free card.  Now which is worse : allowing AC or EK or Swiftblade, to allow a functional gish, or letting something in along the spirit of gesault and getting a telephone pole up the ass?

False dilemma is also a logical fallacy.  

It is unfounded in brainpower and entirely the designers fearing gish, going so far as to nerf them to nearly unplayable in gesault.  

I wash my hands of this, until I post my mage.  Anything which deliberately eliminates one of the iconic playing styles arbitrarily with less reasoned thought that a fucking chimp is below me.  And for the record, only a hypothesis needs a single false case to be disproven.  A scenario only needs one case to be proven true, and I have provided that scenario above, which you seemed to conveiniently ignore as false logic.  No, not false logic, malicious perhaps, but certainly not false.  Utterly eliminating an entire caste of character types for no good reason at all makes the kid gloves come off.  I was going to drop the matter entirely and focus on working on the conversions until that little puddle of biletext came along.  :)
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Surreal

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #21 on: October 11, 2009, 04:29:32 AM »
starting at level 2 and using the pathfinder races. i was thinking eather a Melee monster abusing warhulk and frenzy berserker or bear warrior or a shadowcraft mage like gnome (sub level)
wizard5 shadowcrafter 5 shadowcraft mage 10//scorcerer5 incantrix 10 x5
For a gestalt melee type, I like Master of Many Forms on one side. Then either maintain druid casting on the other side, or maybe go with martial adept.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #22 on: October 11, 2009, 05:10:21 AM »
If you can stomach being an Eberron Elf, go Revenant Berserker build up one side, then Wiz/War Weaver/LegChamp/Incant/HalEld up the other.  Persistify any nasty buffs you want to become invincible, and then proceed to charge and puree anything in front of you, while playing GOD with Arcane Spellsurge and Rage Casting.
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wackodraco

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #23 on: October 11, 2009, 05:14:55 AM »
I like some Variant of:
Dragonborn Grey Elf
Warblade 10/Eternal Blade 10//Egoist 10/Anarchic Initiate 10
You can change as you like, but the basis is a egoist gish. The synergies of Intelligence and Manifesting in Armor are appealing.

Favored Soul//Sorcerer with prestige classes to taste is relatively simple, and if you say away from DC spells on the Favored Soul side, you can neglect wisdom. Doubles as party "face".

Or maybe
Duskblade 20//Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Runecaster 5?
Full BAB; you're a great blaster, controller, buffer, and probably a decent gish in a pinch. Problem is Wizard Casting in armor. Is runecaster considered to be a "dual" PRC? Quick cast and channeling make me happy.
Consider
Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/War Weaver 5//Archivist 4/Druid 1/Planar Shepard 10/Dweomerkeeper 5? PRC 5
Loses a caster level each but an Incantatrix/Planar Shep is WIN. You could cut the archivist and just go straight druid, but Int synergy and the better casting archivist offers is awesome with planar shepard.

The recyclomancer is cool if you can use action points;
Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Primal Scholar 5/Recaster 5, flavor your other side as you see fit. Either mix in divine casting or full BAB. Warblade is good, Crusader is good, Wildshape ranger is nifty. In fact, if you can cheese the Spontaneous Summon Nature's Ally casting onto ranger, Wildshape Ranger 5/Planar Shepard 10/Nature's Warrior 5 makes this WTFHAX.

Wizard 5/Incantatrix 10/Metaphysical Shaper 3/Whatever 2 (Fatespinner?)//Factotum 20
Metaphysical Shaper is a beauty from Book of Erotic Fantasy, we're talking Stilton cheese here.
This has a good Int synergy and BREAKS action economy with factotum. You have a grab bag of skills and full casting just to drive the point home. Works well as a blaster with the metamagic bonuses from Incanta and Meta, you lay down control first round and proceed to BURNINATE with spells until you get books thrown at you, run out of inspiration points, or simply get bored of casting spells. Just to give the finger to opponents, you can break SR with Factotum and break DCs with Fatespinner.

The key to optimizing gestalt is GET TIER 1 CASTING and from there get THINGS THAT HELP THAT CASTING. Everything else is secondary. If you feel like you wanna melee, go for divine casting for Divine Power or natural full BAB; either is useful.

Edit:
starting at level 2 and using the pathfinder races. i was thinking eather a Melee monster abusing warhulk and frenzy berserker or bear warrior or a shadowcraft mage like gnome (sub level)
wizard5 shadowcrafter 5 shadowcraft mage 10//scorcerer5 incantrix 10 x5
Try Changeling Full BAB 5/Warshaper 5/Frenzied Berzerker 10; can be fun.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 12:57:25 AM by wackodraco »
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #24 on: October 11, 2009, 01:21:58 PM »
Anything which deliberately eliminates one of the iconic playing styles arbitrarily with less reasoned thought that a fucking chimp is below me.
No offense, but why is it hard to make a Fighter//Wizard gish of some variety in Gestalt?  Doesn't seem eliminated to me.

Something like Ranger 1/Fighter 4/Spellsword 10/"X" 5//Wizard 5/Rogue 5/Wizard 5/"Y" 5 (Staggering Wizard levels to get full caster progression with Spellsword) seems very much like a workable, feasible gish, that ends up stronger than a non-gestalt gish on several levels.  It even has Channel spell.  If a player then wanted to take Abjurant Champion as both sides of level "XY," I think that would be an alright trade, though there are certainly other things that might be more useful in other ways.
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KellKheraptis

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #25 on: October 11, 2009, 01:29:52 PM »
Anything which deliberately eliminates one of the iconic playing styles arbitrarily with less reasoned thought that a fucking chimp is below me.
No offense, but why is it hard to make a Fighter//Wizard gish of some variety in Gestalt?  Doesn't seem eliminated to me.

Something like Ranger 1/Fighter 4/Spellsword 10/"X" 5//Wizard 5/Rogue 5/Wizard 5/"Y" 5 (Staggering Wizard levels to get full caster progression with Spellsword) seems very much like a workable, feasible gish, that ends up stronger than a non-gestalt gish on several levels.  It even has Channel spell.  If a player then wanted to take Abjurant Champion as both sides of level "XY," I think that would be an alright trade, though there are certainly other things that might be more useful in other ways.

Good luck getting Spellsword.  The only means I see is Duskblade, assmuming that isn't outright banned for being inherently a fighter/mage.
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ksbsnowowl

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #26 on: October 11, 2009, 01:41:33 PM »
Good luck getting Spellsword.  The only means I see is Duskblade, assmuming that isn't outright banned for being inherently a fighter/mage.
The concept of fighter-mage isn't what is banned; it is the idea of one side providing TOO MUCH in addition to the other side providing a host of class goodies.  And dusk blade is a single class on par with most other base classes; there's no reason to disallow it.  It's not the concept that is banned.

Spell sword is a "combo-class" in the sense that it works to mesh two base class ideas (fighter and mage), but it by no means is a full (or near full) dual-progression class; it only advances half arcane casting.  Granted, this falls into the realm of DM interpretation of what a dual-progression class entails, but I freely allow classes that only grant half caster progression in gestalt.
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Ithamar

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #27 on: October 12, 2009, 04:53:53 PM »
There's too many casting suggestions, and not enough dumb fighter types!

How about combining War Hulk || Hulking Hurler + Blood Storm Blade.  Takes care of that pesky BAB loss from War Hulk, and lets you do amazing stuff with your thrown weapons.
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wackodraco

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #28 on: October 12, 2009, 06:35:52 PM »
There's too many casting suggestions, and not enough dumb fighter types!

How about combining War Hulk || Hulking Hurler + Blood Storm Blade.  Takes care of that pesky BAB loss from War Hulk, and lets you do amazing stuff with your thrown weapons.
Because casting is wtfpwnz. Almost anything a Big Dumb Fighter can do, a caster can do while multitasking one other role. Sadly true even in gestalt.
Who needs full BAB when you have divine power? All combat attacks are better with Mighty Wallop.
And so on... Enlarge Person.... Minor/Major Creation for large lead spheres that you can throw for your 453129d6 damage.
But if you want to totally avoid casting, yeah, War Hulk, Hulking Hurler, Bloodstorm Blade, Frenzied Berzerker, Bloodstorm Blade. All good.
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Ithamar

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2009, 07:36:05 PM »
Of course casting wins.  Everyone knows that.  But not everyone likes to play casters.  And sometimes it's just fun to be big and stupid. ;)
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daken201

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2009, 12:38:22 PM »
Actualy i just found out the other players are playing a wizard // archivist, and a Fighter // Rogue. so yea i think i am going to go with the Melee option here :D.

01  Barbarian // Fighter
02  Barbarian // Fighter
03  Barbarian // Warblade
04  Barbarian // Warblade
05  Barbarian // Warblade
06  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
07  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
08  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
09  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
10  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
11  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
12  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
13  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
14  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
15  Warhulk // Frenzy berserker
16  Bloodstorm blade // Hulking Hurler
17  Bloodstorm blade // Hulking Hurler
18  Bloodstorm blade // Warblade
19  Bloodstorm blade // Warblade
20  Bloodstorm blade // Warblade

How does that look?
Only getting in 5 levels of Bloodstorm blade but i want the deathless frenzy. I am not completely attached to survivor but i dont know wht else to put in there, or for the last two levels on that side. any tips?
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 01:25:36 PM by daken201 »

Rebel7284

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2009, 12:46:01 PM »
barbarian and fighter overlap too much

edit: also, by default you can't take two prestige classes during the same level in gestalt.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2009, 12:52:17 PM by Rebel7284 »
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daken201

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #32 on: October 13, 2009, 01:26:56 PM »
Changed the fighter levels after 2 into warblade levels

I want the first 2 levels of fighter for the Bonus feats

Also in the OP i stated that the DM is letting us use 2 Prc's at the same time

Rebel7284

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2009, 01:48:59 PM »
Changed the fighter levels after 2 into warblade levels

I want the first 2 levels of fighter for the Bonus feats
Do dungeoncrasher variant anyway :D

Also in the OP i stated that the DM is letting us use 2 Prc's at the same time

As yes, sorry, too many gestalt threads floating near the top :)

Do you know how your DM handles LA or racial hit dice?
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daken201

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2009, 01:57:55 PM »
I am playing an ogre race that he designed. +10 srt -2 dex +4 con -2 int - 2 wis - 4 cha. Large size, giant type, +5 NA and no HD or LA. yea i am gonna stay with this race lol.

Rebel7284

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2009, 02:01:34 PM »
You can still template it for "lolz".
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Tonymitsu

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2009, 02:05:34 PM »
Large Size, +10 str, natural armor, for no level offset?

Can I play, too?   :devil

Ithamar

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2009, 02:23:20 PM »
Nice build.  See if you can get an extra set of arms, so you can up the STR damage on your weapon, per the Savage Species / Multi-armed rule.  So instead of 1.5 x STR, you get like 3 x STR or whatnot.
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daken201

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Re: New gestalt game
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2009, 02:40:09 PM »
could snag grillion arms, or work twards the insectoid template but that would have to be all done in game, he is not allowing templates to start with :(