Possible new early entry trick...

[DocRoc]

Item: Codex Anathema
Citation and Rights: LoM - pg. 214; non-OGL
Charges: Violation of usual skill bonus mechanic, offers additional ranks
Punishment: Use in CharOp Penal Colonies as EE Mechanic.
Notes: Lack of constraint clauses leads to high likelihood of repeated offenses.

Please discuss.
This appears to have come up briefly before, but I'd like to raise it again for more open discussion because I'm not sure I agree with the existing consensus that it does not allow you to exceed max ranks.  Also, good to see familiar faces again!

edit:  Read over all the discussion of it I could find on 339, suspect the WSOD ate the majority of it.  There doesn't seem to be a clear consensus there either, but I get the feeling this has come up before at least once or twice.  Even if it works, it doesn't seem particularly useful because it's difficult to get it online at a reasonable point in char-dev without serious burrowing which I try to never use for a build.  So, I'm still curious, but..

[Tshern]

Not a new early entry trick as this has been discussed before. Cannot recall what the common verdict was, but I still stand against this, because it doesn't explicitly allow you to go beyond your normal limits.

[cru]

I think it works. E.g., if a lvl 1 character puts 4 ranks into Knowledge (dungeoneering), then reads this book, his total ranks are 9. Of course, when he gains a level, he cannot increase his knowledge (dungeoneering), because of the ranks cap, until lvl 6 or so.

Anyway, this trick allows early qualification for a handful of prestige classes (and some feats). However, wealth-by-level prevents most abuse. If cost was ignored:
* first level character can meet prereqs for Impure Prince (normally fifth, can take first prince level at 6)

The following PrC can enter 2 levels earlier:
* mage of the arcane order - wizard 3
* keeper of cerulean sign - wizard 3
* dragon discipe - spontaneous caster 3
* loremaster - wizard 5
* frost mage - caster 3
* dragonmark heir - anything 2
* heir of siberys - anything 10

Saves 1 level:
* green star adept - duskblade 4

Feats that can be taken earlier
* dragonmark feats

(the list is far from complete)

[tristanayres]

If I recall that discussion seemedto end up with a genera consensus of "It's up to your DM" unfortunatly it seems many things end up this way to to lack of playtesting I would assume (Or general inability on the designers part to keep track of the dozens of books that never seem to mesh well. On this case though I would DM it to work only in campaigns where persistedn consumtion fields and sacrificed shickens abound. My 2 cents anyway

Thanks for your time

[PlzBreakMyCampaign]

I had a simple question about this. The answer was that it was so specific that it usually won't help too much. However it is possible to break wide open a few specific PrCs

[Anklebite]

welcome to the boards!
[spoiler]HOLY SHIT ITS DOCROC!  [/spoiler]

also, seems that we can now enter mystic theruge at level 2 instead of level 3....

also makes entering the magelord PrC a hell of a lot easier. 

and we can now enter chameleon, ur priest, sublime chord and telflemmar shadowlord a lot sooner.

[cru]

also, seems that we can now enter mystic theruge at level 2 instead of level 3....
also makes entering the magelord PrC a hell of a lot easier. 
and we can now enter chameleon, ur priest, sublime chord and telflemmar shadowlord a lot sooner.

Actually, you can't. Please, at least look at the item before claiming things like that. It gives 5 ranks in knowledge (dungeoneering), 2 ranks in knowledge (planes) and 2 ranks in knowledge (arcana).
Mystic Theurge needs Religion - no luck.
It does not really help qualifying for Magelord at all.
Chameleon needs something completely different.
Ur priest needs Religion and Spellcraft - no luck.
Sublime Chord needs perform - no luck.
Telflammar Shadowlord needs something completely different.

[DocRoc]

There's another item in Lords of Madness, called a Brainmate.  It's in the Illithids section, under magic items.  It's given to be alive as well as sentient, and it possesses, as a magic item, 10 ranks in any two knowledge skills.  I could never figure out how to actually exploit this, so more fodder for the great maw.  It's good to be back among many of my old friends.  Hopefully we'll get to have fun arguing about all sorts of things, Tshern. <3

[Tshern]

Assuming you can go beyond the normal limit, could you retrain those ranks to increase another skill?

[PhaedrusXY]

There's another item in Lords of Madness, called a Brainmate.  It's in the Illithids section, under magic items.  It's given to be alive as well as sentient, and it possesses, as a magic item, 10 ranks in any two knowledge skills.  I could never figure out how to actually exploit this, so more fodder for the great maw.  It's good to be back among many of my old friends.  Hopefully we'll get to have fun arguing about all sorts of things, Tshern. <3

Intelligent magic items are creatures. Them having ranks doesn't qualify you for anything. So unless this thing says it grants you 10 ranks in those skills, it doesn't seem like it is good for anything (except making knowledge checks ).

[DocRoc]

This is precisely the case that I ran into, PXY.  All I could come up with was manifesting fusion on it or something similar to that.  Basically, brainmate's only interesting because you can purchase it well before you could get 10 ranks in a skill or any other sentient magical item.  Got nothing more useful there, just another curiosity to lay on the table.  Maybe someone more clever can crack it.

Assuming you can go beyond the normal limit, could you retrain those ranks to increase another skill?

You can retrain them no matter what, though I do not think you could retrain in such a way as to get a different skill to exceed its max-ranks.
 Is there any effect that allows you to move ranks around more directly that psychic reformation?

Now, it is certain that with psychic reformation or similar, you can use this to buy 9 skill points, basically, for 37k.  I'm not really sure that's worth it, though it is really interesting.

[PhaedrusXY]

This is precisely the case that I ran into, PXY.  All I could come up with was manifesting fusion on it or something similar to that.  Basically, brainmate's only interesting because you can purchase it well before you could get 10 ranks in a skill or any other sentient magical item.  Got nothing more useful there, just another curiosity to lay on the table.  Maybe someone more clever can crack it.

Well... how much does it cost? An extra set of actions has to be useful somehow. Use Psychic Reformation on it to give it ranks in Use Magic Device, hang a Hand of the Mage on it, and "hand" it a Wand?

[Tshern]

10k if I recall correctly. Had a look at it a few weeks back.

[Akalsaris]

(The following is assuming that it expands your skill cap limit, which I would rule against as a DM...)

The Codex is a mean 37,500g - so not until WBL for 10th level characters - which still makes it applicable for entering the Heir of Siberys 2 levels earlier (or 3 levels earlier with the Cityscape skills trick).

As cru said, if you ignore WBL, then it might be handy, but I can't think of many 'serious' games where you'll be low enough level (1st-3rd) to get 38K by then and intentionally going for one of the PrCs listed.  Maybe the Dragonmark Heir ones would work if you were a noble of the house and used some artificer crafting and diplomacy tricks to make a TON of gold early on, but it just doesn't seem too practical - and if you're going to use even cheesier methods than that to gain money (something like pazuzu for example), then the Codex doesn't really matter because you're not even in a real game anymore.

[awaken DM golem]

It gives 5 ranks in knowledge (dungeoneering), 2 ranks in knowledge (planes) and 2 ranks in knowledge (arcana).

hmm ... if you didn't have those, and you really needed them, for whatever, then it's useful.

**

Warforged can PAO into Intelligent items, maybe throw in a Fusion too. Minor early qualifying hi-jinks.

[DocRoc]

So far, due to its cost, and limited applicability, I think I'm fine allowing it.    Thank you all again for chewing this over with me.


Thoughts on cracking the Brainmate?

[BowenSilverclaw]

Now if only there were a way to gain 2 ranks of Spellcraft, we could have Epic Spellcasting at level 18...

[Tshern]

With a Dragonwrought kobold for sure, not without it. All epic feats require level 21.

Brainmate seems to be a great investment for, say, a Kalashtar Psychic Warrior, who wants to abuse Knowledge devotion. Only 10k for a class with no intelligence synergy and very few Knowledge skills and Kalashtars get Mindlink as a psi-like ability. Add in Scrolls of Uncertain Provenance and masterwork tools and you already have 10+5+2 for two Knowledges.

The ability to record things is damn awesome for infiltrators...

Edit: Cast Sequester, Shrink item and Instant summons to it and somehow attach it to your enemy. Whenever you feel like it, just call it to you and gather the intel.

[SorO_Lost]

Brainmate seems to be a great investment for, say, a Kalashtar Psychic Warrior, who wants to abuse Knowledge devotion. Only 10k for a class with no intelligence synergy and very few Knowledge skills and Kalashtars get Mindlink as a psi-like ability. Add in Scrolls of Uncertain Provenance and masterwork tools and you already have 10+5+2 for two Knowledges.

+5 comp item (2,500) and the skill trick for another +5. Thats +27+intmod, with a +6 int item it comes out to an even 30.

[Tshern]

Although that is very expensive for a melee character. Especially since getting a number +5 items can cause slot troubles.