Handeling the WLD the CO way

[RobbyPants]

Yeah, I hate to derail this thread, but without knowing what "BFC" means, it's hard to build an optimal party.

Can a dragonfire adept use Entagling Exhalation?  I've never played a DFA, but my understanding is that's a pretty big deal for them.

Can a warlock use Chilling Tenticles?  It's not the only thing warlocks can do, but it's both potent, and a fairly unique power compared to the others.

Hell, can your fighter be a tripper, or does this explicitly pertain to just spells?

Is Glitterdust BFC?  It's a dubeff and not terrain modification, but it certainly "controls the battlefield".

So, tristanayres: are you actually running the game or playing in it, or is this just for discussion?  If you're playing in it, does your DM have a definition of BFC for this dungeon?  If you're running it, do you have a definition?  If that's defined, it makes creating an optimal party a lot easier.

[PhaedrusXY]

This just in from behind the DM screen!

Your DM is an asshole.

Alastar out!

[BowenSilverclaw]

This just in from behind the DM screen!

Your DM is an asshole.

Alastar out!

But yeah, agreed with Alastar, especially if he didn't inform you about those spells not working beforehand...

[Braithwaite]

Scarecrows won't help, as they often say they're just arbitrarily going off when a living thing gets near it.  The traps tend to be quite arbitrary in fact...

JaronK

Party of Necropolitans then? With a Dread Necro for endless healing?

[Khorus]

Warforged Artificers X 4

If dm allows for
A smelting items to be reforged
B sacrifice of found items to equal gp value.

Also something funny first encounter for flavor as finding the dungeon is a dead titan with 2 +5 items, makes a special note saying you can't resize them. But retain essence...hmmm.....

[Khorus]

I keep seeing people saying Screw the BFC wtf?(btw it only says entangle effects and web so most others spells are DM Fiat) If you play WLD, you'll see most corridors are narrow or the rooms are only like 30-50ft. We tried putting entangle in and OMG it was stupid. Basically it comes down to catch it, burn it. The web and entangle are removed to prevent rape from both players and the Dm. Right now we are tackling it again, this will be the 4th iteration for us. Furthest we've made it was I and then the game dispands. This time we are starting on I with Pathfinder characters. I btw is the Halls of Flesh. CRAZY CRAZY awesome bad things happen here. Most of the dungeon floors only have 1-2 monster types with a boss character per floor. And most floors have a 1 species vs enviroment or vs another species hate fest. Traps are ridiculous, most are ac traps with +10 to the roll at low levels. All the saves are 20+ for the most part in the dungeon. The first boss char with level 3 characters is

[spoiler]
A level 7 wererat sorcere with an imp familiar. He has lighting, fly, and invisibility. Very tough when we only found 1 silver dagger.
[/spoiler]

Most of the treasure is really good though, but takes like a 30+ search to locate it.

[Khorus]

btw straight from the pdf.

Wizards do not have it easy in this dungeon. No, that's not strong enough. Wizards get hosed.

One last thing, spells like entangle and web are devastatingly powerful in a dungeon. We've made suer the bad guys don't have them. DMS should do the same with the PCs.

Also has skills suggestions for what would be very useful.

[JaronK]

Party of Necropolitans then? With a Dread Necro for endless healing?

An amusing idea to be sure... but you can't enter as a Necropolitan (because you start at level 1).  Still, there's potential there.

On Battlefield Control:  It just says DMs should nerf entangle and web.  Then the first Wizard you see has Web.  Not well written, that.  Basically, so many of the monsters are melee centric that web and entangle would make them too vulnerable.  So, drop spells like that and you're fine.  Glitterdust is still wonderful.

JaronK

[Alastar]

Yah, I just waived that entry aside when I dm'ed it (still in course, their in Area M), not clear enough for me.  ALso, I like my monsters to pull off some battlefield control spells

We run by gentlemen's agreement, and so far they have resolved to not use polymorph and alter self, as well as celerity, cause they're scared of what i can do with them.  It works pretty well.

[RobbyPants]

On Battlefield Control:  It just says DMs should nerf entangle and web.  Then the first Wizard you see has Web.  Not well written, that.  Basically, so many of the monsters are melee centric that web and entangle would make them too vulnerable.  So, drop spells like that and you're fine.  Glitterdust is still wonderful.

That clears a lot up...

...and opens up all kinds of interesting avenues.

[JaronK]

Oh yes, there's places to go, you're just requested not to lock monsters in place with spells.  As long as the monster can get to you in theory, it's fine.  So Grease and Glitterdust are cool, Web and Entangle are not.  To an extent.  It's not a huge deal, really.

JaronK

[Midnight_v]

Fog cloud and company?

[JaronK]

Solid Fog is probably not acceptable, the rest should be fine (though Cloudkill could be dangerous).  It's a GM's call of course.

JaronK

[KellKheraptis]

My vote goes for Arcane Swordsage with a backup Dragonborn.  And truth be told, I'm still for burninating the entire thing with a Dragonborn and then sifting through the rubbage to salvage materials, so perhaps an artificer as a 3rd member.  But then again I never did react well to gygaxian arbitrariness  

EDIT : Also, being used to playing my iconic also skews my view, as the last game he was in, he was a deity with JD's Mystra ability to ignore planar/deific restriction on magic at the cost of opening Reality Maelstroms.  Kinda gives you a different perspective on things when you can always hop time streams to resurrect someone who's "beyond the grasp of greater deities" because you're not resurrecting them 

[The_Mad_Linguist]

My vote goes for Arcane Swordsage with a backup Dragonborn.  And truth be told, I'm still for burninating the entire thing with a Dragonborn and then sifting through the rubbage to salvage materials, so perhaps an artificer as a 3rd member.  But then again I never did react well to gygaxian arbitrariness  

EDIT : Also, being used to playing my iconic also skews my view, as the last game he was in, he was a deity with JD's Mystra ability to ignore planar/deific restriction on magic at the cost of opening Reality Maelstroms.  Kinda gives you a different perspective on things when you can always hop time streams to resurrect someone who's "beyond the grasp of greater deities" because you're not resurrecting them 

well, yeah, but you're going to have a hell of a time dealing with the alternate universe inhabitants who you just abducted the friend of.

[Lycanthromancer]

There are so many 'I Win' buttons for spellcasters it's not even funny, even if web and entangle are randombanned.

Hell, grease is insane in an enclosed environment, even into near-epic. Even CR 48 golems are virtually negated by that particular 1st level spell. Toss greases and glitterdusts around and you'll be fine.

Like I said, those 'restrictions' are easily gotten around.

[jseah]

Given the lack of "rest", is it possible to use a psion/wilder/erudite with a recharge?

Perhaps involving Link/Metapower + Earth Power + Psicrystal Containment to get the cost of Bestow Power to 1. 

If you don't ever run out of PP, you can pretty much go on forever without rest. 

[InnaBinder]

Another one that's an oddly solid fit for WLD: Spellthief.  Given that Warlocks excel in WLD, choosing a Spellthief to tag along with the Warlock makes really good sense.

[Alastar]

In case... you know... anyone listens to a guy who DM's the WLD.

Sleeping is not hard, if you're smart.

[wotmaniac]

JaronK, are you sure the traps weren't just your DM's evil creations?  I remember the intro stating that the WLD doesn't include traps in the rooms, and that as DM you know best when and where to place them for your group.  I didn't read too much further in though, as there were better-designed modules for me to use instead.

Absolutely sure.  I saw the book when the DM asked me stuff.  Traps included a DC28 to find fireball trap with a DC28 to disarm that does 6d6 damage (reflex save for half, DC quite high)... at level 2.  Yowch.  That's straight out of the book, and took out our Beguiler trap monkey.  Other traps included "if anyone touches the [big item in the center of the room] that person must make a will save.  If they fail, they're cursed with confusion during all combats for 30-Wisdom days, and don't know it till the next combat.  If they succeed, they still get the curse but know that they're cursed."  That one wasn't even detectable with any roll.

Scarecrows won't help, as they often say they're just arbitrarily going off when a living thing gets near it.  The traps tend to be quite arbitrary in fact... though one of our plans actually involved a Commoner 1/Survivor X as a trap detector using Infested with Chickens to trigger traps.  Possibly also tying the chickens to undead minions.  The overall plan of "make someone expendable go in front" is certainly a good one, it's just harder to implement than you might think.  Heck, neither of those would have spotted to confusion trap, as we'd never know the trap had been there until the next combat.

JaronK

This simply means that you went the wrong way.  This is the dungeon's way of telling you to "go the other way".