Author Topic: Fighting a Dragon  (Read 4841 times)

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Tshern

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2009, 03:27:43 PM »
Move silently doesn't matter if you fly, right? Not sure about that though.

And Glitterdust assumse the dragon gets to do anything. It might not even know the guy's coming in. Just get a scrolls of Divine insight to pump your Hide and Move silently up by 15 and the dragon will have even harder a time to punch through Darkstalker.

Edit: These challenges remind me of a dispeller played until a few weeks ago: Level 16, 17 Contingencies (Celerity was banned, but our party Psion helped me to get Anticipatory strikes against Disjunction and whatnot), saves between 32 and 48 and +5 against all spells, permanent See invisibility and Arcane sight, Persistent True seeing, saw in all kinds of darkness, 120' blindsight, 100 feet Mindsight, Greater Mirror image on at all times, Mind blank, Greater Blink, movement actived Etherealness (yes, Haures...), around 300 hit points, initiative of +23 and AC in the 60's. I refused to die.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2009, 03:33:10 PM by Tshern »

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QOShea

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2009, 03:33:50 PM »
If the dragon is in it's lair, it will get to do something.

I mean, what dragon wouldn't put Alarm somewhere in the area going to it's lair.

Tshern

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2009, 03:35:06 PM »
Depends on how you enter it, I suppose.

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2009, 03:38:53 PM »
Move silently doesn't matter if you fly, right? Not sure about that though.
AFAIK, you still make noise (wings fluttering, etc). I don't know of anything in the RAW saying you even get a bonus on MS for flying.
Quote
And Glitterdust assumes the dragon gets to do anything. It might not even know the guy's coming in.
So he's going to kill it before it gets a turn? I guess with a surprise round + high initiative, he might, if he's lethal enough by himself. Fine-sized arrows sure don't do much damage, though. And the damage is based on the bow's size, not the arrows, so it won't even matter if they suddenly become gargantuan after he fires them (for some reason). If he layers on debuffs or save or dies from his splitting, spell-storing bow, it might work.

I'm just trying to point out that he's quite far from untouchable. That's my (main) point here. See Invisibility and Glitterdust are very basic spells that many spellcasters (dragons) should have available.
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2009, 03:43:14 PM »
That's why he should invest to the scrolls of Divine insight. Or just toss some Ghost sound around, good luck hitting the right spot. Would Spell immunity work against Glitterdust?

And most of the damage shouldn't come from the size of the bow anyway. The difference between 1d8 and 1 is 3.5 points a shot. At least all the archers I've played relied on the damage bonuses, not the base dice. You know, like Power attackers.

But I agree with your point to an extent. Just that it is easy to make those things negligible. Silence, Divine insight and, hopefully, just the base modifier. Wonder how far away the Pixie can shoot... Distance penalties are bad too.

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Alastar

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2009, 03:53:21 PM »
You need concealment to hide, glitterdust negates your concealment (negates your invisibility)  so...

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2009, 04:13:31 PM »
Err...shouldn't we be helping the DM with the dragon?!
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Tshern

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2009, 05:41:57 PM »
You need concealment to hide, glitterdust negates your concealment (negates your invisibility)  so...
Sure, if the dragon can throw hundreds of Glitterdusts a round. There is no guarantee the dragon even knows where to throw the Glitterdust too. A surprise round, a succesful initiative and a bunch of arrows. If needed, just move away after the three Manyshots. Or use a Belt of battle to shoot another one and then move.

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QOShea

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2009, 05:53:23 PM »
Well, a Wyrm Green Dragon has the spellcasting ability of a 15th level Sorc.

Throwing in a Ring of Wizardry or two (dragon sized), and that's a lot of spells.

Any dragon worth it's INT score will USE it's treasure to dispose of any gnats that come along.

Alarm spell on the path to the lair, Rock to Mud. Evasion? Good luck when there is nowhere to evade to.

Then dispel the RtM and presto, instant tomb.

Tshern

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2009, 06:35:42 PM »
Etherealness?

And you really need a lot of spells to randomly guess the right place. Is the lair just conviniently Glitterdust-sized? If the dragon even ever sees the guy coming.

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2009, 06:58:31 PM »
It depends on the DM. If played well, dragons can be some of the nastiest things in the game. You could argue that anything can be tough if played well, but dragons have a leg up in the world due to their inherent toughness, senses, movement capabilities, and spellcasting. All it takes is a few decent feats and adding a good spell selection to turn them into nightmares for even fairly optimized parties.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Tshern

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2009, 07:08:18 PM »
Aye, dragons along with outsiders definitely are the nastiest creatures around. But now the player has the CO boards behind him. Unless the DM is a geek himself, he is going to be in a lot of troubles.

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Levithix

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2009, 07:40:36 PM »
And how did you get Fine size? Pixies are Small sized.

A Djinni From the City of Brass gave us wishes as a reward, mine was to be harder to see (because the dm had been giving most of his npcs a way to see invis) The Djinni made me fine size, which took a lot to find a way to be usefull after because my character had been a half minotaur changeling before being reincarnated and rolling 100.

Levithix

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2009, 07:44:45 PM »
Aye, dragons along with outsiders definitely are the nastiest creatures around. But now the player has the CO boards behind him. Unless the DM is a geek himself, he is going to be in a lot of troubles.

the DM asks me when he needs advice

Levithix

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2009, 07:46:10 PM »
Depends on how you enter it, I suppose.

We are going to have a god teleport us right to the lair.

You need concealment to hide, glitterdust negates your concealment (negates your invisibility)  so...

Haste gives me concealment  :lmao

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2009, 07:52:16 PM »
Haste gives me concealment  :lmao
It doesn't negate the -40 penalty to Hide, though. That and the -20 for sniping leaves you with a -10 to hide. Also, unless you have Hide in Plain Sight, concealment isn't enough to hide while being observed. If the dragon has See Invisibility and Glitterdust (and can catch you in the area), it could ruin your day.

Of course, if you kill him before he can hit you with Glitterdust, then there is no problem. I don't know your DM, and how tricky he is. Personally, I don't think dragons live to be that old without being as cunning as the devil, what with all the would-be dragon slayers running around. But having a god personally teleport you to the dragon's lair sounds a bit heavy-handed to me, so I doubt he's much for subtlety... :rollseyes
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Levithix

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Re: Fighting a Dragon
« Reply #36 on: September 29, 2009, 08:13:26 PM »
He's gotten kinda tired of the game and is ready for me to run the next one, so he decided that while we were in Ysgard, we should be able to pick up a ride home.