Author Topic: Best specialization school(s) for modified Red Wizard  (Read 2321 times)

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Kobal

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Best specialization school(s) for modified Red Wizard
« on: September 18, 2009, 09:22:19 AM »
I might very soon play a Wizard in our D&D group, and am currently thinking about a possible Prestige class. One of the options that intrigue me is the Red Wizard of Thay. The GM has made it relatively clear that I would not get much use out of Circle Magic, but in turn he would allow the 3.0 version of spell power which also increased the save DC for spells of the specialist school.

Further restrictions:
- Only one prestige class per character (so no dip-around)
- We will be playing around level 10-12 (10 currently)
- Allowed Books are PHB, DMG, MM1-3, CAd, CAr, CDiv, BoED

I would like the wizard to have good combat impact. Most likely this will be through battle field control - as I feel this is where the strength of the wizard class lies - with some DD capability for those cases where just getting rid of someone is the best and easiest BFC-option. If this prestige class strengthens other roles strongly, I have no problem with that, either.

What I am thinking about now is what specialization school to choose under these ramifications. At first Evocation seems to benefit most from caster level AND spell DC increase, but then it is not the strongest school to start with. Two generally considered strong schools are Conjuration and Transformation, but here it would seem they do not get as much of a boost from this particular Red Wizard Variant.

So asking the more experienced Wizard players out there, what would you consider good options.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Best specialization school(s) for modified Red Wizard
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2009, 09:57:13 AM »
Think of all those Conjuration BFC spells that are also "Save or Suck."  Now imagine having all that +DC on it.  Yay for sudden "Might as well just say SUCK" on the enemies :)  However, how high WILL the game go?  At low to mid levels, Conjuration is hard to beat, but as you get higher in level, the most powerful spells in the game are Transmutation (Time Stop, Shapechange, Polymorph family).  It's too bad the Circle Magic option is off the table...my last two ubermages use it to good effect.

Another option if you're wanting to really hone in on BFC would be to look at Treatmonk's Focused Conjurer Mage of the Arcane Order build.  It can drop spells from every school thanks to spellpool III, gets even more spells per day than a normal archmage, and with a little feat shuffling you can even come close to rivalling a War Weaver for buffing (with an offensive option to boot).  I gotta run out for a bit this morning, but I can post more extensively when I get home.  TM's guide is a good start though, as is LogicNinja's guide to being batman, currently at GitP (assuming we haven't ported a copy here).
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Kobal

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Re: Best specialization school(s) for modified Red Wizard
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2009, 10:12:04 AM »
However, how high WILL the game go?
We are currently lvl 10 and I would not expect to see level 14 in the relevant future. So consider lvl 13 the uppermost limit.

RobbyPants

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Re: Best specialization school(s) for modified Red Wizard
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2009, 10:47:58 AM »
I'd suggest utilizing Conjuration and Transmutation for BFC and DD.  Conjuration is my favorite school and remains versatile and useful at all levels.  Transmutation is a close second.  When making a specialist, I never consider dropping either of these.  You lose so much when you do.

AFB now, but don't you have to drop at least one school to be a red wizard?  I can't remember if you have to be a specialist too (total of three dropped schools). Assuming I'm right:

Evocation is actually a pretty easy school to drop, especially with you having access to CArc (the orb spells).  Really, about all you lose from Evocation is Shatter, Wall of Force, and Contingency.  Shadow Evocation and it's Greater cousin can make those up nicely (assuming you didn't drop Illusion).

Dropping Enchantment is pretty easy too.  There are several nice aspects you lose out on, such as controlling other people, but the heart and sole of Enchantment is Will-save-or-lose.  You can do that with Conjuration, and you can do it without the nasty [MIND AFFECTING] tag attached.  Illusion and Necromancy can also help you out here.  Enchantment is one of the most redundant schools in combat situations.  If the game is heavy, heavy RP-based, then you might want to rethink this choice (depending on if the DM allows magic to win the RP mini-game).

Other choices for dropping schools would be Abjuration, Illusion, and Necromancy.  This is where it gets tougher.  Abjuration has some really useful spells, especially the Dispel Magic line.  Illusion can be very versatile, and can make up for Evocation with a mere two spells.  Necromancy has some wonderful debuffs, like giving people negative levels (and massive save penalties) with a touch attack (spell resistance does apply, however)!  Given these three, I'm most likely to give up Necromancy unless specific circumstances dictate otherwise.
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Best specialization school(s) for modified Red Wizard
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2009, 11:38:26 AM »
To get more use out of Circle Magic than your DM expects... buy a set of Ring Gates, and leave one of them at your "base" where all of your followers can safely participate in circles with you, no matter where you are.
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Kobal

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Re: Best specialization school(s) for modified Red Wizard
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2009, 01:42:41 PM »
Two comments regarding PhaedrusXY entry:
- In our campaign there are no MagicMarts, i.e. the almost exclusive source of magic items are the corpses of slain foes, which makes the acquisition of specific magic items not very planable.
- When the GM makes it clear that he does not want Circle Magic (and when he is even willing to compensate in other places) it would seem not a very wise course of action to try and outsmart him with some obscure magic item. :)

Alastar

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Re: Best specialization school(s) for modified Red Wizard
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2009, 01:54:18 PM »
Whil I agree Conjuration would be better for the increased spell DC, depending on the ennemy, necromancy might also be tons of fun.

There's nothing that beats going to your dm with:

You- Ok he makes a fort save
DM - 19 doesn't save right?
You- Nope
DM- Ok what happens, what's your debuff?
You- He dies
Dm- Like... he takes damage or...?
You- Nope, he's just dead.
Dm- .... my monster!!!

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Best specialization school(s) for modified Red Wizard
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2009, 01:56:54 PM »
Two comments regarding PhaedrusXY entry:
- In our campaign there are no MagicMarts, i.e. the almost exclusive source of magic items are the corpses of slain foes, which makes the acquisition of specific magic items not very planable.
Not mentioned in the OP. So how am I supposed to know that? Also, how does he deal with crafting? And this kind of thing tends to overpower casters compared to non-casters (Just a comment. I've played in campaigns like this and witnessed it first hand). Focusing on battlefield control is a good way for you to avoid that, as you'll be perceived as helping your allies, not stealing the show (hopefully).
Quote
- When the GM makes it clear that he does not want Circle Magic (and when he is even willing to compensate in other places) it would seem not a very wise course of action to try and outsmart him with some obscure magic item. :)
It's in the DMG. It's a core item. It's hardly "obscure". I understand where you're coming from, though.
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A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
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