Author Topic: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion  (Read 2355 times)

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untface

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3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« on: September 13, 2009, 01:32:13 AM »
I'm new to the boards, so hello everyone *waves*. Hope I am posting in the right place, and doing it appropriately.

I am looking for some help in designing a build for a campaign that I have recently joined. I haven't played that much D&D, and it has been quite some time since I played any at all. I guess I'll just start with an outline of the creation rules and what the party is and see how we go from there.

CREATION:

Starting Level: 9
Point Buy: 40 points
Starting Gold: 15k
Setting: Dragonlance - all classes
Books: All 3.5

N.B. Campaign is running to a deadline, so no builds that require extensive "alone time" will really work (e.g. Clerist - Knightly Orders of Ansalon)

My character must fill two archetypes, Prophet and Inginue (spelling may be off).

Prophet: basically requires some healing ability (e.g. 1 level of cleric or druid would suffice). Wands won't do.

Inginue: requires that I somehow be "vulnerable" and grow into my strength(s). Strikes me as more a roleplaying concept, but can certainly be reflected in character advancement (e.g. Mystic Theurge - weak multiclass that comes into it's own with the gains in Theurgic prowess). As long as i can justify it to the group it's all good (you could probably ignore this consideration, I'll just roleplay it). I must also be female...if that matters at all.

PARTY:
All level 9
1. Druid focusing on combat abilities and wild shape
2. Cleric of Mishakal (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=148822)
3. Fighter/Barbarian
4. Rogue - good DPS and trapsmithing
5. Melee - front line mix of multiclass goodness
6. Straight Wizard (white robes I think)
7. Me

I have been initially considering:

Fighter/Knight of the Sword/Clerist - one full day a week meditation has effectively eliminated this build as a possibility

Mystic Theurge - Guess I'd have to pass on the melee...

Sacred Fist - from what little i have read online it seems to be a bit weak (compared to other options)

And another build suggested elsewhere:

Paladin2/Sorcerer4/Spellsword1/Abjurant Champion5/Sacred Exorcist8 - seems solid, but it doesn't heal at all! A level splash would solve that, but doing so seems sub optimal.

If anyone can suggest a strong melee/divine caster, preferably with a bit of an outline on the build, it would be great. I am confident i could create a basic build that would be effective (say Sorc/Paladin), but it would be nice to have something more *optimised*, and there is just so much to read!

Really though, all constructive suggestions are welcome.


Anyway, thanks for your time.

Cheers.

Anklebite

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2009, 01:48:00 AM »
welcome!

as for the build, what sort of thing would you prefer to play?

focusing on casting, skills, melee, gish, CoDzilla, faceman, 5th wheel?

a build I came up with a while ago (and spam at every chance I get  :D) is this: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5394.0

it is a bit complicated, but the character starts off as a normal bard. from there, levels 2-4, it is a bard/wizard multiclass with no real true synergy (completely playable, but no powerhouse). at level five, learns some trapsmithing (maybe you played apprentice to the party rogue?). at level 6, the class kicks off. CL raises, and you can deprive spellcasters of spells.  from there on out, the class is a rapidly scaling extreme utility caster, with an insane CL.  however, seeing as the primary casting is sublime chord, you are not quite a wizard. the char ends up being useful in every situation, with trap detection, a bit of melee(with buffs), some primary casting ability, stealth and death attack, and a ton of good spells.  you even pick up mindsight towards the end. 

the class is even epic ready. just continue into epic ultimate magus, and pick up the first level of a casting class when you max another out(like, say, take sorcerer1 at lvl 21, and then use epic ultimate magus to progress wizard and sorcerer; continue on the beguiler, dread necro and anything else you want to when those get maxxed- unlike most multiclassed epic spellcasters, you CL increases when you do this instead of decreasing).

the whole trick to the build's high CL is the "+1 CL to ALL arcane spellcasting classes" gotten at levels 1, 4, 7 and 10 of ultimate magus combined with the master spellthief feat. the formula ends up being "the sum of all the spells known caster levels of all your classes, plus 4x the number of different casting classes (with an additional +4 to the total CL for each practiced spellcaster feat, regardless of target class).


hell, you can even cast in light armor!
I do not suffer from paranoia; I enjoy every second of it.
Pioneer of the Ultimate Magus + Sublime Chord + Ultimate Magus combo

untface

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2009, 02:21:08 AM »
welcome!

Thanks. Happy to be here :)

as for the build, what sort of thing would you prefer to play?

focusing on casting, skills, melee, gish, CoDzilla, faceman, 5th wheel?

Personally, i enjoy melee. I've never really played a caster. Maybe it's time i started...

I enjoy the idea of Sorcs as they have a fixed spell selection. All that decision making that wizards and clerics have to do every morning, a day should start simpler than that :p

a build I came up with a while ago (and spam at every chance I get  :D) is this: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5394.0

it is a bit complicated, but the character starts off as a normal bard. from there, levels 2-4, it is a bard/wizard multiclass with no real true synergy (completely playable, but no powerhouse). at level five, learns some trapsmithing (maybe you played apprentice to the party rogue?). at level 6, the class kicks off. CL raises, and you can deprive spellcasters of spells.  from there on out, the class is a rapidly scaling extreme utility caster, with an insane CL.  however, seeing as the primary casting is sublime chord, you are not quite a wizard. the char ends up being useful in every situation, with trap detection, a bit of melee(with buffs), some primary casting ability, stealth and death attack, and a ton of good spells.  you even pick up mindsight towards the end. 

the class is even epic ready. just continue into epic ultimate magus, and pick up the first level of a casting class when you max another out(like, say, take sorcerer1 at lvl 21, and then use epic ultimate magus to progress wizard and sorcerer; continue on the beguiler, dread necro and anything else you want to when those get maxxed- unlike most multiclassed epic spellcasters, you CL increases when you do this instead of decreasing).

the whole trick to the build's high CL is the "+1 CL to ALL arcane spellcasting classes" gotten at levels 1, 4, 7 and 10 of ultimate magus combined with the master spellthief feat. the formula ends up being "the sum of all the spells known caster levels of all your classes, plus 4x the number of different casting classes (with an additional +4 to the total CL for each practiced spellcaster feat, regardless of target class).


hell, you can even cast in light armor!

Haha, that build looks like a lot of fun! I'm still reading up on all the feats and PrC's, but looks great so far.

Cheers,
-John

untface

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2009, 02:30:34 AM »
Removed: I finally read Sublime Chord (which I thought was a feat and not a PrC). Now I understand how this build heals  :clap

Cheers.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 02:35:36 AM by untface »

Anklebite

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2009, 02:33:18 AM »
thanks!

if you prefer fixed spell selection casting, then this is actually quite a good build for you. the only prepared casting is the wizard casting, but it is only 2nd levels or so.

you get to pick spontainious spells from sorc/wiz/bard for sublime chord, assassin spells, trapsmith spells(haste as a 1st and dim door as a 2nd? hell yes!) and even 2 levels of bard spells.  it is sort of like a sorcerer, except ALOT more spells availible. you should be able to avoid the problem of not having enough utility spells with this setup  :D

incidentally, if you do go with this char, please give me some feedback on how it plays, as I haven't had much oppertunity to playtest it  :)


also, bards can cast cure spells. put cure light on your bard selection and its all good  :D
I do not suffer from paranoia; I enjoy every second of it.
Pioneer of the Ultimate Magus + Sublime Chord + Ultimate Magus combo

untface

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2009, 02:37:08 AM »
I'm gonna run with it. Looks like so much fun. Will be playing tomorrow night (Monday for me), and i will definitely post how it goes.

Thanks a bunch!

-John

untface

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 01:27:27 PM »
bard1/wiz2/spellthief1/trapsmith1/assasin1/UM3/sublime chord2/UM+5/mindbender1/UM+2 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5394.0)

How do you meet the entry requirements for trapsmith?

I started with 17 INT, level raise at 4 to 18 INT and I don't seem to be able to reach: Craft-trapmaking (8 ranks), Disable Device (8 ranks), Search (8 ranks) and Open Lock (5 ranks) at level 5. Level 6 is Trapsmith.

Of the four skills, Craft is the only Class skill until you reach Spellthief.

ABLE LEARNER [RACIAL]
You have a great aptitude for learning.
  Prerequisite: Human or doppelganger.
  Benefit: All skill ranks cost 1 skill point for you to purchase, even if the skill is cross-class for you. The maximum number of ranks you can purchase in a cross-class skill remains the same.
  This feat does not affect the skill point cost to learn a language or to gain literacy (for a barbarian or other illiterate character).
  Normal: Cross-class skills cost 2 skill points per rank.
  Special: This feat may only be taken at 1st level.
(Races of Destiny pg. 150)

Here's how I broke it down for those four skills in isolation:

Level 1 Bard (40 Skill Points): 2 ranks in DD, Search, Open. 4 ranks Craft (16 points spent)

FEAT: Able Learner

Level 2 Wizard (6 Skill points): 1 rank Craft (1 point spent)

Level 3 Wizard (6 Skill points): 1 rank in each (4 points spent)

LEVEL RAISE +1 INT

Level 4 Wizard (7 Skill points): 1 rank in Craft (1 point spent)

Level 5 Spellthief (11 Skill points): 1 rank in Craft, 5 ranks in Disable and Search (11 points spent).

TOTAL RANKS: Craft 8, Disable Device 8, Search 8, Open Lock 3

So, how do I get two more points for open lock? Or, where have I gone wrong in my point spending?

Cheers,

-John
« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 02:13:40 PM by untface »

untface

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 01:39:38 PM »
Actually, I guess it is easy enough. I can just take Assassin at 6th instead of 7th, and take Trapsmith at 7th instead of 6th. Bingo!

Still I am curious to know if I missed something with my previous post...

Cheers.

Havok4

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2009, 01:53:44 PM »
Your max ranks in any skill that you had as a class skill at any point is HD+3. Able learner effectively makes any class skill you have always be a class skill.

untface

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2009, 02:08:01 PM »
Your max ranks in any skill that you had as a class skill at any point is HD+3. Able learner effectively makes any class skill you have always be a class skill.

What? Not sure I am following the semantics here. Surely any class skill I have will always be a class skill, whether I have able learner or not.

Able learner does not make a cross class-skill become a class skill (RAW).

Able learner (RAW) does not change the maximum number of ranks allowed for a cross class skill: (Character Level + 3) / 2 [rounded down]


ABLE LEARNER [RACIAL]
You have a great aptitude for learning.
  Prerequisite: Human or doppelganger.
  Benefit: All skill ranks cost 1 skill point for you to purchase, even if the skill is cross-class for you. The maximum number of ranks you can purchase in a cross-class skill remains the same.
  This feat does not affect the skill point cost to learn a language or to gain literacy (for a barbarian or other illiterate character).
  Normal: Cross-class skills cost 2 skill points per rank.
  Special: This feat may only be taken at 1st level.
(Races of Destiny pg. 150)

Hence an able learner purchasing a cross-class skill need only spend 1 point every two levels (after 1st) in order to max that skill to (Character Level + 3) / 2 [rounded down]

At least that is my interpretation. Am I missing the point somehow? ???

Cheers,
-John

« Last Edit: September 13, 2009, 02:16:11 PM by untface »

untface

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2009, 02:28:24 PM »
Your max ranks in any skill that you had as a class skill at any point is HD+3. Able learner effectively makes any class skill you have always be a class skill.

Ok, ok, I think I get it now. For the purposes of multiclassing, class skills retain the 1point=1rank, even for classes that have that skill as a cross class. lol. Sorry 'bout that, it's late  :rollseyes

Cheers.

Havok4

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2009, 02:33:28 PM »
Quote
Regardless of whether a skill is purchased as a class skill or a cross-class skill, if it is a class for any of your classes, your maximum rank equals your total character level +3.

From the PHB

That means that able learner effectively allows you to purchase any skill you had as a class skill at any time as a class skill, it is technically not a class skill but the rules for purchasing ranks is the same. So those skills you found issue with can be purchased up to a max rank of HD+3 at one point per rank.

Your max ranks in any skill that you had as a class skill at any point is HD+3. Able learner effectively makes any class skill you have always be a class skill.

Ok, ok, I think I get it now. For the purposes of multiclassing, class skills retain the 1point=1rank, even for classes that have that skill as a cross class. lol. Sorry 'bout that, it's late  :rollseyes

Cheers.

No actually not, class skills retain the max ranks but still have to be purchased for 2 points per rank without able learner.

untface

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Re: 3.5 Looking For build suggestion
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2009, 02:41:20 PM »
Quote
Regardless of whether a skill is purchased as a class skill or a cross-class skill, if it is a class for any of your classes, your maximum rank equals your total character level +3.

From the PHB

That means that able learner effectively allows you to purchase any skill you had as a class skill at any time as a class skill, it is technically not a class skill but the rules for purchasing ranks is the same. So those skills you found issue with can be purchased up to a max rank of HD+3 at one point per rank.

Your max ranks in any skill that you had as a class skill at any point is HD+3. Able learner effectively makes any class skill you have always be a class skill.

Ok, ok, I think I get it now. For the purposes of multiclassing, class skills retain the 1point=1rank, even for classes that have that skill as a cross class. lol. Sorry 'bout that, it's late  :rollseyes

Cheers.

No actually not, class skills retain the max ranks but still have to be purchased for 2 points per rank without able learner.

Yeah, I was referring to a multiclass that took able learner. I should have been more specific. Thasnk very much for clearing that up though. All makes much more sense now.