Author Topic: List of things Rescued from Wiz Beaurocracy  (Read 8034 times)

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Paradox

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List of things Rescued from Wiz Beaurocracy
« on: September 03, 2009, 09:50:53 AM »
Edit: The saving things thread

Index of things saved;
[spoiler]
The Sublime Duskcord
T_G's Optimization Series: Psi-Gish Tank
T_G's Optimization Series: Psi-Rogue
Lester the Molester ( :3 )
Psywar Buildguide and Compendium
T_G's Ardent Buildguide and Compendium
[/spoiler]




The Discussion on the Sublime Duskcord (I did some editing to make it easier to read and removed unrelated posts and references to some)
[spoiler]
AramilWindwalker
06-22-06, 04:16 PM
I was just pondering the full attack spell channelling that duskblades get, and wanted to try anf figure out the silliest thing you could put on there. then it hit me, Otto's irresistable dance, a touch spell, no save, makes them dance. then I figured out that a
bard1/duskblade13/sublime chord2/eldritch knight4
could pull that off. the only hitch being the charisma required for sublime chord spells,the necessity for light armor, and the skill ranks (but able learner make it a nonissue)
+18 bab, 4th level duskblade spells, 4-7th level sublime chord spells
I'll try a 20th level breakdown of it... featwise anyhow
Human
bard1:Able learner, Combat reflexes
duskblade2:Exotic weapon prof(spiked chain), combat casting
duskblade5:combat expertise
duskblade8:dodge
duskblade11: mobility
sublime chord1:spring attack
eldritch knight1:whirlwind attack
eldritch knight2:arcane strike(it's late.. but meh)

Since a whirlwind attack is considered a ful attack action, you can use the full attack channelling with it, choosing otto's irresistable dance, and hitting everyone within your threat range(getting greater enlarge person from sublime chord might be a good choice), then when they dance and provoke, you hit them some more. and on your turn, sing or dance yourself!(you have the ranks after all)

Is there some stipulation I missed? or is this legit(and totally going into the next game i play)?

thanks


Surreal
06-23-06, 01:14 AM
Hmm, and while they're dancing they take a -10 to reflex saves, which makes them perfect targets for Bands of Steel (Spell Compendium) which can render them helpless.


tsuyoshikentsu
06-23-06, 04:55 AM
And what goes better with Helpless than Otto's irresistable +1 acid burst cold burst shocking burst thundering scythe?


WombleHunter
06-23-06, 06:50 AM
Don't forget to Wraithstrike so you don't miss any of those attacks.


AramilWindwalker
06-23-06, 01:03 PM
One thing that surprised me is that noone had thought of this before, or at least noone had put it down here. I know it gets to the fun a bit late(18th level) but most builds around here do.


RadicalTaoist
06-27-06, 10:32 PM
How did I miss this thread? I dub this tactic Otto's Irresistible Bumrush.
Other good point: Karmic Strike or Robby's Gambit make the Duskchord the ultimate full-attack-interrupter. You attack me once, I make you dance uselessly.
And another: Plane Shift, available sooner than OID, means multiple Deaths By Awesome in a single round.
And yet another: can the tactic be speeded up by using Sanctum Spell to accelerate your entry into Sublime Chord?


neth2
06-27-06, 11:35 PM
the problem is that it can only do it once per day, which makes me sad
i might be able ta convince my DM ta trade the dance out for polar ray as 5th level spell
that would be awesome
especially since there aren't any good touch spells at 5th level
actually, i dont think there are any


neth2
06-28-06, 12:53 AM
another way to pull this off is with a human duskblade 13/chameleon7


MechaboyDos
06-28-06, 05:01 PM
Actually, if I'm reading this right, you should be able to do it at least twice per day. Sublime Chord 2/Eldritch Knight 4 gives you 5th caster level in Sublime Chord, which nets you two 6th level spells per day. And since Otto's Irresistible Dance is a 6th level Bard spell, that's the version you use as a Sublime Chord. Throw in bonus spells for high Cha and you can make everybody Dance the Night Away!


Carnon
06-29-06, 07:44 AM
Always the same old chain. Why not improve reach, save yourself a feat and whip them into dancing?
You get the required exotic weapon proficiency from the bard level and you have better reach, so what if you're not damaging them. Cast wraithstrike or make it a whip of wounding if you want some damage too.
And since you're not getting AoO's with your crappy whip, you might as well dump Combat Reflexes too and go for Inhuman Reach. Dance floor control!


Cambion76
09-04-06, 02:45 PM
Try this one:

Bard 1
Duskblade 9
sublime chord 2
spellsinger 5

thats BAB 13 on level 17, but you have Tenser's for that.
6th level bard abilities
9th level duskblade spells
7th level sublime chord spells
caster level 16 for both
compelling song
spellsong (cast any arcane enchantment in the game up to 8th level)
3 more levels to go (mayby eldritch knight)
battlecaster feat for the sublime chord to wear some mithral fullplate
duskblade full channel is nice, but quick casting true strike and doing a leaping power attack with a two-handed weapon channeling something really nasty, is too!

Tweedledope
09-10-06, 08:36 PM
It's like Michael Flatley with a spiked chain...[/spoiler]

Can someone let me know how to link a url to individual posts?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 04:28:25 PM by Paradox »

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2009, 10:11:51 AM »
Optimization Series: Psi-Gish Tank(I did not edit this at all, it was taken from google :love cache.

FIRST HALF
[spoiler]
Tleilaxu_Ghola
02-24-06, 10:52 PM
Purpose:
Optimization on these boards is often too constrained or too loose, with this thread I hope to set reasonable bounds for optimization so as to produce the quintessential Psi-Gish build. Other such series may follow; the general idea is to optimize a narrow concept instead of a specific class or trick. This new line of thinking was inspired by the "practical 10 commandments of optimization" thread.

Optimization Constraints
To me the defining characteristics of a psi-gish tank are the following:
Front-line Melee Capabilities
High Damage Output
High Armor Class
Battle Controlling Powers
Comparable magic to a mage of equal or lesser level
Able to take punishment

Further Optimzation Constraints:
No Infinite Loops
Uses unambiguous rules
Non-Setting Specific
All books open, subject to the above constraints
The more skills the better
Optimized on levels 1-20 as best as possible

Introduction:
The good, and perhaps bad, thing about psi-gish builds is that there are very few prestige classes to work with: Slayer, Iron Mind, and Sanctified Mind. Thankfully, however, both are rather powerful classes. Here's what each have to offer:

*Iron Mind (Race of Stone): Very armor and will-save based. Gains a form of mettle at 5th level and gains DR 3/-- by 8th level. Cleric base attack, 8/10 Manifester Levels, easy entry (5th level qualification).

*Slayer (XPH): Uses psionic focus to gain special abilities. Most of these abilities are active only while focused. Fighter attack progression, 9/10 manifester levels. Great class all around. It's like the elderich knight of gish, except better.

*Sanctified Mind (Lords of Madness): A dual caster progression with Divine magic, fighter attack progression, 5/6 manifester/caster levels. Grants some nice little goodies like power resistance. Very nice class, easy pre-reqs, requires no divine caster levels upon entry!

Final Prestige Class Analysis: Fighter attack progression and fast manifester levels are the determining factors in a psi-gish build. Sanctified mind and Slayer are easily entered and offer the biggest bang for your buck. Iron mind is nice, but too conditional for me. Plus the slower ML progression and cleric attack does not offset its abilities when compared to either sanctified mind or slayer.

Good Feats:
Inhuman Reach
Deep Spawn
Over Channel
Psi-Crystal Affinity
Expanded Knowledge (You name it)
Required Feats:
Iron Will
Track


Finally,
Build:
Race: Human
Ranger: Bestial Hide, (Aberrant Blood), (Track)
Egoist: (Overchannel)
Egoist: Deep Spawn
Egoist
Egoist: (Expanded Knowldege (Claws of the Beast))
Egoist: Shape Soulmeld (Girillon's Arms)
Egoist
Slayer: (Note: gains armor proficiency [all])
Slayer: Multi-Attack
Slayer
Slayer
Slayer: Expanded Knowledge (Schism)
Slayer
Slayer
Slayer: Iron Will
Slayer
Sanctified Mind
Sanctified Mind: Expanded Knowledge (Form of Doom)
Sanctified Mind
Sanctified Mind


Notable Features:
Gains two tentacle attacks at level 3 (useable as primary or secondary attacks).
Has the ability to shape and bind (with the open chakra power) the girillon's arms bind, which grants him rending damage on two successful claw attacks.
17 Base Attack
17 Manifester Levels
111 skill points (with out int modifier, which should be high) and ranger class skills.
Base Saves: Fort (11) Ref (8) Will (17*) *with Iron Will.
While focused: Immune to mind-affecting effects (like mind-blank), Impossible to locate via info gathering divinations, each melee attack reduces the creature's SR/PR by 1
Highly customizeable feat selection
Able to manifest 1 9th level power (probably greater metamorphosis).
Schism available to cast vigor when HP are running low.

Twentieth Level Damage:
Buffs active:
1. Claws of the Beast (overchanneled to 19 ML) [Hours/level]
2. Metamorphosis into a Cave Troll [minutes/level]
3. Open Chakra (arms) [24 hours]
4. Girillon's Arms (bound to arm chakra) [24 hours]
5. Permanent Greater Magic fang +5 (on tentacles and claws) [Permanent]
6. Prescience Offensive (Overchanneled to 19 ML) [Mins/level]
7. Precognition Offensive (Overchanneled to 19 ML) [Mins/level]

Total buff pp expendature: 77 (33 of which need only to be cast once per day). Total pp pool: 335 (assuming 30 int)
Items assumed:
1. +6 strength belt [continuous]
2. +3 tome of strength [inherent]

(STR MOD: +14)
Attacks assumed on a charge:
2 Claws + 1 Bite + 2 Rakes + 2 Rends + 2 Tentacles
Attacks bonuses (in that order): 43/43/36/43/43/*/*/41/41
Damage Calculation (in that order): 2(6d6 + STR + 5 enh + 8 ins) + (1d8 + .5STR) + 2(6d6 + .5STR + 5 + 8 ins) + 2(6d6 + STR) + (12d6 + 1.5STR) + 2(1d6 + .5STR +5 + 8 ins)

Assuming all hits (averaged): 50d6 + 1d8 + 8STR + 30 = 369.5

Battle Control: Telekenetic thrust and telekenetic maneuver provide a good means for battle control in a pinch. I'm not sure what would be an optimal way to work battle control feats in with this build.

Suggestions? I don't know if the aberrant feat tree is a good idea, though having 2 extra attacks at third level is very appealing at low-levels. I could go for the sword and board (grabbing a shield and sword and then get feats like heavy armor optimization and parrying shield to improve touch AC). The current feat selection is geared towards natural attacks, but I'm open to a new technique.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
02-25-06, 02:48 PM
Any thoughts on feat selections?

Is there a way to work in a divine caster level somewhere so we can take full advantage of sanctified mind? I was thinking pious templar, but you don't really get much in the way of spells from that class. (although a first level dip does get one mettle).

The trouble is I am loth to lose base attack and manifestor levels, otherwise I probably would go for a couple levels of archivist. I dunno is 7 levels of archivist casting (the most I think I could afford) worth the loss of 2 manifestor levels? It could be... I would be able to pick up divine power (but I wouldn't be able to persistify it).
Endarire
02-25-06, 04:19 PM
Ranger is technically a divine casting class if you take it long enough.

-EE
nameless
02-25-06, 04:37 PM
I had a build like this once. I based it on wilder for the better BAB, the small surge, and the cha-based manifesting. It burns through PP like nobody's business, though.

I had some extra stuff on top of this that really made it a beast:

1. Psionic Lion's Charge (via expanded knowledge). You get to pounce, and whatever you augment it with adds to the damage of all your attacks. With overchannel. I'm not seeing how you get a full attack otherwise. But adding in psionic lion's charge would give you 96 more damage in a full attack.

2. Temporal acceleration (via expanded knowledge, if need be). You can buff, or you can add on non targeted powers, and still get your full attack. It's a good way to put up offensive prescience and precognition when you don't have prep time, and your mind blank makes you immune to the penalty from temporal acceleration.

3. Timeless Body. With temporal acceleration, you are a god. You can manifest this (extended if need be) during your bonus round and have it carry over to your normal round while you make attacks. As long as you have PP to spend, you are immune to all attacks, damage, and magic.

4. Psionic Meditation. Metapsionic feats will be your friend. With a high ML and overchanneling, you can quicken 8th and 9th level powers.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
02-25-06, 05:10 PM
Psionic lion's charge is the shiznit. None of this guy's stuff is really contingent upon charging though. In cave troll form he gains the ability to pounce every round. Wilder would quicken my entry to either sanctified mind or slayer by a level, allowing me to eek in a level of archivist or cleric. However, this does cause a loss in ML, which translates to only 1 8th level power.

I just don't think the wilder power selection is good enough.


I'll definately have to hammer out a power list for this guy. Timeless body is a good idea, but I'm not sure if it is a powerful as greater metamorphosis. Temporal acceleration is definately a must for buffing.

Another feat progression might look like this:
1. Combat Expertise, (Improved Grapple), (track)
2. (overchannel)
3. Shape Soulmeld [Girillon's Arms]
5. (EK [Claws of the Beast])
6. (EK [Grip of Iron])
9. Psionic Meditation
12. Psycarnum Infusion
15. EK (Form of Doom)
18. EK (Psionic Lion's Charge)

Maybe the order could be improved, but the idea is this:
*immediate action manifest grip of iron
*Free-action expend focus into psycarnum infusion (Soulmeld treated as full)
*(active buffs: form of doom)
Grapple bonus = STR + 17 + 12 enhancement + 10 competance + 4 unnamed
= +55 (assuming +12 strength bonus)

That's not too shabby considering that he is still medium size. Now, once in a grapple he can use his claws and tentacles to beat them into the ground.
Surgo
03-16-06, 11:40 PM
A PrC you may be missing: the Sangehirn (Mind's Eye).

This PrC is GREAT for psi-gish. Cleric BAB (kinda meh), 9/10 manifester levels, and... DR 5/- and fast healing 3. Power choices are limiting, but you can either be an erudite or alternate levels with slayer to get around this problem.

The other problem is getting into the class fast enough so that you can still take a lot of slayer levels. It requires manifester level 5, and level 5 is a worthless level of psion to take because you don't get any BAB out of it. Maybe there will be some sort of "Practiced Manifester" in Complete Psionic to get around this problem.
Talen Lee
03-16-06, 11:46 PM
I'd love to play a Templar/Sanctified Mind, but unfortunately, I think you're making a reading error. The class advances manifesting or divine magic. Check the text. If it's been errata'd, I'll eat my words quite happily, though.
RadicalTaoist
03-17-06, 12:55 AM
This build eventually made it into my Favorite Builds thread.

Forgetting the Sangehirn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625c) and the Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) is unforgivable. EDIT: Now with links.

Elocator I can see omitted due to its focus on a more mobile, less tanky fighting style. But why no Warmind?
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-15-06, 02:09 AM
I have acquired a copy of complete psionics, and it is now time to adjust my formula for the optimal psi-gish. Additionally wish to expand the breadth of this concept a bit further.

Keep in mind the goals here:
High Defensive capabilities
High offensive capabilities
1-20 optimization
High Power output capabilities


Using the shell build I have posted above many things are possible. It's hard to beat 17 ML and 17 BAB, good saves, decent skills, relatively low number of source books, and relatively low number of required feats.

Anyways the following prestige classes and base classes are pertainent to this topic: Ardent and Storm Disciple. Neither really impress me overmuch, so I won't spend a lot of time talking about them (I haven't full researched them either). However CPsi does offer a wide range of feats, here is what I find interesting:

Postpone Enervation: Delay enervation up to 3 rounds.
Priveledged Energy: +1 extra damage per die for energy missile. This would be totally awesome, if energy missile hadn't been nerfed. However, it's still not too bad.
illithid heritage: Craptacular feat, but the pre-req for the next feat listed, which is totally awesome.
illithid grapple: Gain a fully functional tentacle useable as a secondary or primary natural weapon. Also has the improved grab special quality. It's so good I want to cry.
Practiced Manifestor: There's nothing that can stop a psi-gish now. With the above shell build we'll be nearly as effective as a straigh psion at manifesting, but sooo much better on every other front.

New powers that I've noticed (that pertain to psi-gishery):

Damp Power: BEST ANTI-CASTER POWER EVER!!! This reduces the damage you would take from damage dice of spell/power to it's minimum value. As if they had rolled all ones. Best yet it's a second level power with immediate action casting. Beautiful.
Energy Emanation: Gishes fight with weapons... why not add pile on more damage by simply radiating energy. [NOTE: THIS POWER NEEDS ERATTA, either the augmentation is wrong or this thing does indeed warrent a saving throw. As is there is no save, but the augmentation allows for an increase in the DC save...]
Psychic Scimitar: Interesting, yet possibly risky. Allows touch spells to be delivered via a floating immaterial scimitar.
Dimensional Twister: AWESOME at low levels. The augmentations are a bit steep, but you just can't beat the versatility of this guy. It deals damage (5d6 initially) and displaces your foe within close range (where every you want him to be). This is battle control at it's finest folks. Will negates, so it's great against fighters.
Inconsistant Location: I don't have sandstorm, so I'm glad they reprinted this one for me. It's as awesome as I imagined it to be. Battle control is immensely enhanced with this power.
Dimension door psionic: some of the new augmentations are interesting.
Living Arrow: Mixed with range enhancements and the second augmentation option your arrows turn into "fly-by-wire" missiles!
Mind over Energy: Energy immunity... yay!
Cranial Deluge: BEST POWER DESCRIPTION EVER!!! WotC wins brownie points for that precious image. Also deals massive damage for a power of its level (18d6).
Greater Stomp: Knocks 'em prone and deal 7d6 damage. Not bad (5th level).
Eyes of the Basilisk: More flavorful goodness. Turn your opponents into stone 1/round for rounds per level.


Now for a modified feat configuration for the build in the OP: (This is what I would call the tentacled mass build)

1. Bestial Hide, (Aberrant Blood), (Track)
2. (Overchannel)
3. Deep Spawn
6. Illithid Heritage, EK (Claws of the Beast)
9. Illithid Grapple
12. Illithid Grapple
15. Iron Will
18. EK (Form of Doom)

Perhaps not the best, but it gets the point across. At 18th level you could whip out 8 tentacles and 2 claws. That's 10 natural attacks on a full attack baby.

More to come.... I hope to conjure up more advanced "feat-configurations" for this build. If you've any suggestions to improve the actual shell build I'm all ears. Getting more feats is high on my priority list.
Rashomon
04-15-06, 05:31 AM
I found very few of the Comp-Psi options useful, with the exception of Damp Power. So here's an SRD-only build and the tactics for them. Besides, I do not want to confuse no0b players with obscure builds that nobody has.

Ranger 1 / Fighter 1 / Telepath 8 / Slayer 10.

Race: Elan

1. Ranger: Psionic Weapon, (Track)
2. Fighter: (Power Attack)
3. Telepath: Psicrystal Affinity, (Psionic Meditation)
4. Telepath:
5. Telepath:
6. Telepath: Psicrystal Containment
7. Slayer:
8. Slayer:
9. Slayer: Psionic Weapon, Greater
10. Slayer:
11. Slayer:
12. Slayer: Deep Impact
13. Slayer:
14. Slayer:
15. Slayer: Twin Power
16. Slayer:
17. Telepath: FEAT
18. Telepath: FEAT
19. Telepath:
20. Telepath:

Use a skin of proteus to emulate a Marrusault for Pounce. If you can power it up, go Cave Troll.

At lower levels, this guy is a standard expend-focus buff fighter. At the higher levels he slings storms of TK Thrust swords (twinned, of course, and I have deliberately refrained from TK Thrust cheese, using only greatswords) while letting his psicrystal control his actions via Control Body so he can full attack and manifest his purely mental powers. Control Body also replaces STR and Dex with INT, so yo ucan dump those two scores if you're starting at level 10+.

As a telepath you have Empathic Transfer, Schism, and Reformation as discipline powers. Reformation in particular lets you make change out your feat selections to pile on item creation feats and whatnot so you can make your own items on the cheap. Note also the power research rules which let your gain powers from other disciplines for a fairly hefty XP cost.

Feel free to comment and correct, I whipped it up in 5 minutes in a break from studying. If someone can teach me that Eidetic Lock power that lets me commit large amounts of text to memory, I'd appreciate it.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-15-06, 01:50 PM
Your build is a classic one, and has one more feat open that I do. But then again, it loses one base attack and its saves/skills aren't as good.

I could easily adopt that feat progression into my build. Basically that's what I'm looking for is an optimal feat progression. I'm fairly certain that the "shell" build is about as optimal as it gets, but I'd be willing to sacrifice a little base attack if it meant I would get some nifty abilities.

Rashomon, you should really take a look at dimensional twister in CPsi. I'd be willing to bet that is the biggest gem of the lot (for a psi-gish). I mean not only do you teleport an enemy wherever you want him, but you also damage him in the process! Even on a flat boring battlefield it allows you to keep him at least a move action away from you while beating him up a bit. As long as you've got psionic lion's charge and he doesn't, you're gonna win.
OologahQ
04-16-06, 12:12 AM
I just thumbed through my new copy of complete psionic, won't have time to read it much till after next week. The feat that struck me as cool was the one that allowed an Elan to soak 4 damage for 1 power point. I was trying to come up with a build to abuse that in a combat-oriented psi character but wasn't having much luck. Anyone have any ideas on how to make an Elan melee character with a huge power point reserve to soak damage with?
[/spoiler]

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2009, 10:12:41 AM »
SECOND HALF
[SPOILER]
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-16-06, 12:23 AM
Well I'd suggest taking a look at the build I have presented in the OP. If you can convince your DM that an elan (who is an aberration) can take aberrant feats without the aberrant blood feat, then nothing in the above build changes.

Either way, you can shuffle the feats around to your liking. In the end you're going to have a lot of power points, hit dice that average inbetween the d6 and d8 range, average of 3+int skills (with a good int and ranger skill list), 17 BAB, and 17 ML. I strongly recommend taking practiced manifestor because as it stands it grants you more power points.

Anywhoots, you should keep in mind that you only get 1 immediate action per round. So you'll only be able to burn off one attack per round. It's a nice safety net, but I'd invest in armor or miss-chances to increase your survival.
Carpe Diem
06-10-06, 01:48 AM
I'm not sure if this is the proper place to post this, but I am loathe to make a new thread so I'll try here first.

We're starting up a planewalker (http://www.planewalker.com

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2009, 10:15:45 AM »
T_G's Optimization Series: Psi-Rogue (moar liek psi-ops, amrite?)

Again, no editing on my part.
[spoiler]
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-17-06, 09:23 PM
Purpose: Mucknuggle's thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=622533) on psychic rogue otpimization piqued my interest in the idea of a psi-rogue. I believe there are better choices than the psychic rogue from the mind's eye archive. Similar to my last optimization series (psi-gish (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=593654) and dex-warrior (http://boards1.wizards.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=8584413)), I will try to address some theory and typical optimization constraints for this concept.

Optimization Constraints
These constraints define the role we want to fill.
Trap-finding
High number of skills, but preferably in the following areas:
Search
Hide & Move Silently
Disable Device

Damage Capability (with at least 15 BAB by 20th level)
Defensive Capability (can take a hit, or hard to hit)
Optimized on a 1-20 level scale.

Races: Human, Illumian, or Azurin. Pure and simple, the best race for this optimization excersize will be one with a human subtype. The main reason: the Able Learner feat from races of destiny requires the human subtype to gain the feat.

Feats: (Laundry List of feats that will probably be important for this character)
Able Learner: Cross-class skills only cost 1 point. The maximum for cross-class skills still apply

Classes:
Psion will provide the manifestor levels here. The fact that it uses int-based manifesting synergizes nicely with one who would like more skill points.
Elocator: A PrC from the XPH which has 6+int skills, cleric base attack, and a really nice skill list.
Scout: A great way to start off this character: it has 8+int skills, a huge list (which includes disable device when you use the eratta). I find skirmish to be more useful than sneak attack for this build. Also has the trapfinding ability. Also has d8 hit-dice, which is better than the rogue's.
Ranger: Another great class, only 6+int skills and no trap finding, but has 2 good saves and fighter base attack (and free feats!).
Slayer: 9/10 ML progression, fighter BAB, 4+int skills, and awesome class abilities. A great "filler" PrC.
Shadowmind (CAdv): Cleric BAB, 4+int skills with an awesome skill list, 2 good saves, 7/10 ML progression, grants sneak attack dice. Very easy entrance (possible to enter at 4th level!)

Build:
Race: Human

1. Scout: (Able Learner), Point Blank Shot, trapfinding-----------BAB: 0, ML: 0
2. Ranger: (Track)------------------------------------------------BAB: 1, ML: 0
3. Seer: (Overchannel), Precise Shot------------------------------BAB: 1, ML: 1
4. Seer: ---------------------------------------------------------BAB: 2, ML: 2
5. Seer-----------------------------------------------------------BAB: 2, ML: 3
6. Seer: Practiced Manifestor-------------------------------------BAB: 3, ML: 4
7. Shadowmind: ---------------------------------------------------BAB: 3, ML: 5
8. Shadowmind ----------------------------------------------------BAB: 4, ML: 5
9. Shadowmind: Rapid Shot-----------------------------------------BAB: 5, ML: 6
10. Shadowmind ---------------------------------------------------BAB: 6, ML: 7
11. Slayer -------------------------------------------------------BAB: 7, ML: 7
12. Slayer: EK (Perfect Archery) ---------------------------------BAB: 8, ML: 8
13. Slayer -------------------------------------------------------BAB: 9, ML: 9
14. Slayer -------------------------------------------------------BAB: 10, ML: 10
15. Slayer: Craft Dorje ------------------------------------------BAB: 11, ML: 11
16. Slayer -------------------------------------------------------BAB: 12, ML: 12
17. Slayer -------------------------------------------------------BAB: 13, ML: 13
18. Slayer: Dorje Mastery-----------------------------------------BAB: 14, ML: 14
19. Slayer -------------------------------------------------------BAB: 15, ML: 15
20. Slayer -------------------------------------------------------BAB: 16, ML: 16

SOURCES: Races of Destiny, Complete Psionics, Complete Adventurer, Expanded Psionic Handbook, Player's Handbook.

Notable Abilities:
Manifestor level 16, Base Attack 16. Effective manifestor level 20 (for purposes of augmentations, power penetration, etc.
124+(intx20) skills, cross-class skills only cost 1 rank, enormous list (everything on scout, ranger, psion, and shadowmind).
Trapfinding (search and disable device are on the list since 1st level)
Capable of non-magical/psionic ranged damage.
Access to remote viewing and other spying powers
Crafts his own dorjes, which he is able to use at increased effect due to dorje mastery. The dorjes can be used to for offensive powers or buffs. It's up to you, either way they'll be effective.



A WORK IN PROGRESS...

I'm still designing a optimal power-list, looking for a better damage technique, more skills, etc, etc.

Any help or suggestions are appreciated. I would like to stay away from psychic rogue, however, as not all DMs allow access to mind's eye (myself included). I also tend to avoid setting specific stuff, so as to generalize the utility of this build.
GavinMagius
04-17-06, 10:26 PM
When you say you want to stay away from psi-rouge, what do you mean by that? ie. The Lurk?
PhoenixInferno
04-17-06, 10:39 PM
When you say you want to stay away from psi-rouge, what do you mean by that? ie. The Lurk?
He means the Psionic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b).

FYI, you should use [ code] tags to make tables, or use Courier New as your font - makes aligning the tables easier. Gotta love the fixed width font.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-17-06, 10:51 PM
He means the Psionic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b).

FYI, you should use [ code] tags to make tables, or use Courier New as your font - makes aligning the tables easier. Gotta love the fixed width font.
<EDIT> Now it's readable. Comments on the build itself?
PhoenixInferno
04-17-06, 11:14 PM
You've only really provided a melee Psi-Rogue option - what about utility types? You could also mention Sanctified Mind as a good melee option.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-17-06, 11:26 PM
You've only really provided a melee Psi-Rogue option - what about utility types? You could also mention Sanctified Mind as a good melee option.
Hmm... actually a ranged rogue might be a better option, what with all the new powers that apply to arrows (living arrow, arrow mind, and perfect archery).

I don't know. I just threw out my first inclination of what I thought to be the best build given the constraints. Do you have any ideas PhoenixInferno? Obviously the build is going for utility, but I also want to squeeze some combat ability in there as well. It's a tall order, but I think it can be done reasonably.

Sanctified Mind is good, but doesn't have very good skills (2+int I believe). The premise of this build is to make a skillful character that uses psionics and fills the void of a rogue. Sneak attack isn't NEEDED ever, it's just a perk of being a rogue. Skills and trapfinding, however, are NEEDED, so they must be included in the build.
PhoenixInferno
04-17-06, 11:32 PM
Elocator? I'm not really into Psionics so I can't say much more than what I've already said.
Mucknuggle
04-17-06, 11:33 PM
You've only really provided a melee Psi-Rogue option - what about utility types?

Psychic Rogue 20 is great for that. :P
GavinMagius
04-17-06, 11:34 PM
I am working on a Rogue build which is Rogue 12/Lurk 8

The lurk has the ability to remove the dex bonus from its target at its own leasure, thus giving him the SA

Just a thought
Mucknuggle
04-17-06, 11:44 PM
Tleilaxu, I would prefer a build that uses Elocator. It has more skill points than the Shadowmind. Also, if you want to focus more on utility, all you have to do is trade Slayer levels for Elocator. Then just switch up the method of attacking to be Spring Attack with Deep Impact. Be a Kineticist so that you have early access to Control Body and use that on yourself to allow you to spring attack and regain psionic focus in the same round (thanks to Disposable Hero for that tip).
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-17-06, 11:47 PM
Hmm... perhaps I'm too hung up on getting Base attack, Manifestor levels, and skill points. I mean what more could one possibly want?

Anyways, PhoenixInferno: Elocator can be found in the SRD here (http://d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/elocater.htm). It's a pretty good class, but I couldn't fit it in easily with the high reqs that it has. (Requires spring attack)

GavinMagius: Care to expand upon that? Deceptive Strike is the Lurk augment you're undoubtedly referring to. The earliest one can get that is by 6th level (with the lurk master feat). I'd take more levels of Lurk than rogue so that you get more uses of your lurk augments per day. Perhaps mixing that with monk and stunning fist would be interesting, no?
PhoenixInferno
04-17-06, 11:52 PM
Hey! I know what Elocator IS, I'm just not a big Psionics user. You don't hang around the boards as much as I do and not know where 90% of the material is from...:)

I can kinda see a Scout/Kineticist/Sanctified Mind/Elocator as a Psionic Shadowbane Inquisitor. Not as much manifesting, but Elocator makes you more skill heavy.
Mucknuggle
04-17-06, 11:53 PM
Hmm... perhaps I'm too hung up on getting Base attack, Manifestor levels, and skill points. I mean what more could one possibly want?

Psychic Rogue 2/ Psion (Kineticist) 2/ Human Paragon 3/ Elocator 4/ Slayer 9

BAB +16, ML 15 (Psion). Feel free to switch the psy rogue levels for Scout 1/Ranger 1 if you eant. And yes, I know that Human Paragon doesn't grant manifester levels by the RAW - but it's obviously intended as a jack of all trades, so house ruling that it can advance casting or manifesting shouldn't be a problem.

Where is Sanctified Mind from?
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-18-06, 12:14 AM
Psychic Rogue 2/ Psion (Kineticist) 2/ Human Paragon 3/ Elocator 4/ Slayer 9

BAB +16, ML 15 (Psion). Feel free to switch the psy rogue levels for Scout 1/Ranger 1 if you eant. And yes, I know that Human Paragon doesn't grant manifester levels by the RAW - but it's obviously intended as a jack of all trades, so house ruling that it can advance casting or manifesting shouldn't be a problem.

Where is Sanctified Mind from?
The people I game with are pretty terrified of "making up your own" stuff. They're fine with house-ruled nerfs (which are often necessary), on the other hand. So, I try to avoid stuff that isn't "strictly RAW" as best as I can, as others might be under the same predicament.

Anyhoots, Sanctified Mind is from Lords of Madness. It's a 6 level PrC that grants fighter BAB, and 5/6 ML progression AND 5/6 divine caster level progression. It's pretty darn sexy... but I've never been able to conjure up a good use for the divine end of things. Partly because I hate divine magic...

What do you think are the "essential" skills for a rogue. I listed some above, but did I miss any? I'd like to minimize the number of skill points needed so as to give us some breathing room for other things that we want to cram in.
Mucknuggle
04-18-06, 12:20 AM
This kind of thing doesn't have enough points to be a dungeon delver and a smooth talker, so for this builds I would attempt to max the following: Search, Spot, Listen, Disable Device, Open Lock, Hide, Move Silently, Concentration, Use Psionic (Magic) Device. If more points are available, Tumble and Sleight of Hand are neat. I don't know much of psionic powers yet, but you can probably eliminate Hide with some sort of invisibility power. Does the Psion have anything to replace Open Lock?
PhoenixInferno
04-18-06, 12:20 AM
Anyhoots, Sanctified Mind is from Lords of Madness. It's a 6 level PrC that grants fighter BAB, and 5/6 ML progression AND 5/6 divine caster level progression. It's pretty darn sexy... but I've never been able to conjure up a good use for the divine end of things. Partly because I hate divine magic...Its mix & match 5/6 ML/divine CL, but that's the gist of it.

UPD/UMD! How can you forget those?
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-18-06, 12:24 AM
Hmmm... We could get UPD by changing seer to shaper. UMD is touger though, I'd need to use rogue instead of scout. That's doable, but is it worth it...mmm....

How about the new dual dorje wielding feats from CPsi (pretty much the same as dual wand wielding)?

The nice thing about dorjes is they can hold up to 9th level powers! Imagine busting off a greater metamorphosis and a microcosm in the same round. *snap*
Mucknuggle
04-18-06, 12:26 AM
Leave the wands to the artificers. That's all I have to say about that.

Why did you choose Seer?
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-18-06, 12:31 AM
This kind of thing doesn't have enough points to be a dungeon delver and a smooth talker, so for this builds I would attempt to max the following: Search, Spot, Listen, Disable Device, Open Lock, Hide, Move Silently, Concentration, Use Psionic (Magic) Device. If more points are available, Tumble and Sleight of Hand are neat. I don't know much of psionic powers yet, but you can probably eliminate Hide with some sort of invisibility power. Does the Psion have anything to replace Open Lock?
There is a psionic knock (2nd level). That would probably do the trick. Sleight of hand... I dunno. Tumble is really only critical if you need to flank for sneak attack. Search, spot, listen, disable device, concentration, Hide, Move Silently, and UPD are probably the essential ones. That's 9 skills! We'd need to have a +4 int bonus for the majority of the levels to keep everything maxed out. (Not impossible, but some levels only get 3+int skills (4 of them in fact).

Hmm ideas there? Elocator is looking good again. Though the thought of another cleric base-attack class almost brings tears to my eyes...

Leave the wands to the artificers. That's all I have to say about that.

Why did you choose Seer?
Probably wise advice on the wands. Anyways, I chose seer to help this character fill the "scouting" role that a rogue often plays. With divinations and scrying powers up his sleeve, this guy shouldn't have to sneak around so much as manifest a power.
Eyeless Blond
04-18-06, 01:04 AM
Elocator? I'm not really into Psionics so I can't say much more than what I've already said.
Something like Scout6/X*1/warmind1/elocator10/...

* X being some class that gets Knowledge(psionics) as a class skill. Psywarrior would probably work best of the core psi classes.

The sixth level of Scout is good for Flawless Stride, which lets you charge over uneven terrain, as well as the save bonuses.

This is just the beginning of a build, of course.
Gryftir
04-18-06, 01:18 AM
Tumble is neccesary if you are going for melee sneak attack when facing multiple opponents as well.

Control Sound might work instead of move silently.
Tenken
04-18-06, 09:17 AM
Anyhoots, Sanctified Mind is from Lords of Madness. It's a 6 level PrC that grants fighter BAB, and 5/6 ML progression AND 5/6 divine caster level progression. It's pretty darn sexy... but I've never been able to conjure up a good use for the divine end of things. Partly because I hate divine magic...

It actually advances either your manifester level OR your divine caster level, not both. I've yet to see a class that advances psionic and divine classes :(
_J_
04-18-06, 10:07 AM
I've yet to see a class that advances psionic and divine classes :(
Take a look at the Psychic theurge (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b) and see one :D
Stratovarius
04-18-06, 10:19 AM
The Psychic Theurge in the Mind's Eye does that, but I don't know of any others off the top of my head.
xanadu
04-18-06, 12:09 PM
I think the posted build ends of being a good character but is a bit rough in the low to mid levels: BAB 3 at level seven with leap attack makes for an odd combination.

This project wont be easy because not a lot of Psi PRCs are skill point friendly and the Elocator has some hefty entry requirements. At first thought, it is probably easier to focus on making a combat oriented psi-rogue or a skill oriented combat rogue - combining them may be too difficult if you have to start at level 3 and ensure this guy survives.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-18-06, 12:51 PM
I think the posted build ends of being a good character but is a bit rough in the low to mid levels: BAB 3 at level seven with leap attack makes for an odd combination.

This project wont be easy because not a lot of Psi PRCs are skill point friendly and the Elocator has some hefty entry requirements. At first thought, it is probably easier to focus on making a combat oriented psi-rogue or a skill oriented combat rogue - combining them may be too difficult if you have to start at level 3 and ensure this guy survives.
I agree with your assessment. I'm considering changing the combat focus to archery, so as to improve his chance for survival at low levels. This way he could focus on dexterity without needing to get weapon finesse and at the same time it would increase both his AC and initiative modifier.

Another option, *gasp*, would be to change the base manifesting class to Ardent (from Cpsi). Ardent has cleric base attack and the same number of pp as a psion (fewer powers known, however). The trick still is getting trapfinding. If I can somehow loosen that requirement, then this would be a lot easier.
PhoenixInferno
04-18-06, 12:56 PM
Thief Gloves?
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-18-06, 04:41 PM
Thief gloves would be available at 6th level (at the earliest) because they need to be bound to the hand chakra. It would require me to expend two feats (or take class levels in an incarnum class). Alternatively, I could rely on the open chakra power, but that's a 4th level power and I don't get 4th level powers until 10th level.

This is a rather difficult optimization excersize to say the least.

The best substitute (for low levels) that I have is a wand of find traps (2nd level cleric; 4500 gp). That's rather expensive for someone in the 1-6 level range (given it's relatively low combat value).
Mucknuggle
04-18-06, 05:07 PM
I don't think that you need to worry about the BAB too much for the early levels. You've got a manifester level of 5 at level 7, which can allow you to do some pretty decent damage with Energy Ray and probably some other powers. You really don't have the HP to be meleeing at that point in the build anyway...
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-18-06, 05:43 PM
I don't think that you need to worry about the BAB too much for the early levels. You've got a manifester level of 5 at level 7, which can allow you to do some pretty decent damage with Energy Ray and probably some other powers. You really don't have the HP to be meleeing at that point in the build anyway...

True enough. I'm now really considering dropping the leap attack, moving towards an archery tree. We can ameliorate the low base attack through the use of precognition offensive (or prescience... I can never remember which one is which). Perhaps practiced manifestor would be more beneficial in the low levels? Weapon focus shortbow will definately help out at first level.

So basically the technique for survival at low levels will be:
1. Buff up and shoot arrows
2. If enemy has too high of AC use touch attack powers to damage him.

The first level powers should definately be: energy ray, prescience offensive, precognition defensive. The next level (level 4) one should grab vigor and a utility power of choice.

Now for high levels? How should we get reasonable damage? No more ubercharging... and given the investment in archery at low levels we'll likely be forced to continue that track. A composite bow will help a bit, as will augmented prescience offensive (it can give up to +8 insight to damage for 20 minutes when fully augmented at 20th level). I think we need to be able to get the damage above 100 (assuming all hits) by 20th level. For all intensive purposes (until 20th level) we're stuck with 3 attacks (at high level). The speed enhancement will provide another attack, but is pretty expensive. It may be worth-while to invest a feat in "metaphysical weapon." 17 pp will grant a +5 bonus and with overchannel would be available as early as 15th level. If augmented with 4 points the duration increases to hours per level (effectively all day at high levels).

So I plan to add the following:
1. Point Blank Shot, (Able Learner)
2. (track)
3. (Practiced Manifestor), Rapid Shot
6. EK (Metaphysical Weapon)
9. EK (Perfect Archery)
12. Overchannel
15. Precise Shot
18. ???

Basically he's going to have to burn through power-points like crazy at low levels to be competant in combat. At higher levels he gets a little more breathing room.

But at 6th level he could have a total ranged attack bonus of (on his 1 attack): (3 BAB + 2 insight +2 enhancement + dex) = 7 + dex, which isn't terrible, but not great. The magical bonuses would come from buffs which last 6 minutes.

At high levels he should tote around a +1 Collision bow of speed. (and use metaphysical weapon to add more enhancement bonus on to it). This'll give him a damage per arrow at 20th level of 6x(1d8 + 5 unnamed + 5 enhancement + STR)= 105 (assuming 16 strength and all hits).
Mucknuggle
04-20-06, 10:44 AM
I just noticed that the Daggerspell Mage has a psionic option. It has 6 skills per level, medium BAB and 9/10 manifester progression. It's, IMO, a really good choice for this kind of character.

Psychic Rogue 1 (or Scout, Rogue, etc...)/ Psion 5/ Daggerspell Mage 6/ Slayer 8

ML: 17
BAB: 15

While the BAB is pretty good, this guy should definitely be played more like a caster. Take Able Learner at level 1 and try to get through those Psion levels without losing too many skills. Focus on Disable Device, Concentration, Hide, Move Silently and Search. Open Locks is not a priority since you should be taking Knock as a second level power.

Alternatively, if you really want a BAB of +16, do DM 4/ Slayer 10 - though you'll miss out on those much needed skill points. DM 4/ Slayer 9 gets you the awesome level 9 ability though.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-20-06, 12:21 PM
Wow I never noticed that bit of flavor text in the "adaptation section." The only trouble I see in arcane infusion. It would need to be re-worded to "As a swift action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity you may infuse your dagger with a single power point that has the effect of charging it with an extra 1d6 points of a specific energy type (fire, colde, or electricity). The effect lass 1 round. Augmentation: for every two additional power points beyond the first that you invest in your dagger the energy imbued lasts an additional round. Maximum augmentation: 17 pp. If the dagger is thrown the energy applies to the attack, but the effect immediately ends."

Something like that. The augmentation shown would be the equivalent to an additional spell slot. The maximum ensures that there is absolutely no difference between arcane and psionics.

Other than that, just replace spells with powers and casting with manifesting.

Great find!
Mucknuggle
04-20-06, 01:52 PM
I only found it because of Disposable_Hero's list of psionic material outside of the XPH. Thanks go to him. So, with the build that I posted, what feats would you take and what powers? I actually think that taking Erudite instead of Psion may be a bit better, or maybe that's just because I like Erudite more because the picture of the erudite in Dragon is so badass looking.

I was thinking of something like this for the initial levels:

1 - Able Learner, Track (Human)
2 - Psicrystal Affinity (Psion)
3 - Weapon Focus (Dagger)
6 - Two Weapon Fighting, Practiced Manifester (Psion)
9 - Psionic Meditation

Being an Erudite frees up a feat because you get Psicrystal Affinity for free.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-20-06, 07:24 PM
I only found it because of Disposable_Hero's list of psionic material outside of the XPH. Thanks go to him. So, with the build that I posted, what feats would you take and what powers? I actually think that taking Erudite instead of Psion may be a bit better, or maybe that's just because I like Erudite more because the picture of the erudite in Dragon is so badass looking.

I was thinking of something like this for the initial levels:

1 - Able Learner, Track (Human)
2 - Psicrystal Affinity (Psion)
3 - Weapon Focus (Dagger)
6 - Two Weapon Fighting, Practiced Manifester (Psion)
9 - Psionic Meditation

Being an Erudite frees up a feat because you get Psicrystal Affinity for free.
I dunno much about the erudite... I know there's a version of it in CPsi, but I haven't looked at it too much. But I will say this: a psion gets a free bonus feat (psionic or metapsionic) at first level as well, so I see little advantage in being an erudite.

I like the feat progression you have listed, but I'm not sure why you took psionic meditation at 9th level. Do you plan on blowing your psionic focus a lot? Otherwise, it's not worth it. I'd suggest taking expanded knowledge for some power that you just gotta have at that point.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-22-06, 12:08 AM
I've updated the build and changed the focus to ranged combat. I wanted to use the dual dorje tree, but I just don't see two-weapon fighting working out with this character at low levels. Perhaps a psychic reformation would be in order, if this build were played 1-20.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-22-06, 06:35 AM
Alright, time to re-think the whole combat end of things on this build. It's been bugging me for days and I still haven't come up with a perfectly satisfactory solution.

Here's what I got so far: Screw physical combat completely. Kill 'em with mind-bullets. No one ever said how we had to deal the damage, so long as we can do it.

This puts a precedence on gaining manifester levels. We'll introduce a new prestige class into the mix: Anarchic Initiate. Full ML progression, cleric BAB, grants wild surge ability and has other nice perks. This has the wonderful effect of opening up a lot more feats. Base attack and saves never hurt anyone though, so those should still be sought after.

A couple feats that I'm looking into:
1. Priveledge Energy: You gain +1 damage per die when you use a power of that energy type. Ummm... AWESOME. We want damage, and this is a great way to get more of it.
2. Split Ray: with a metapsionic cost of only 2 pp this feat is a power house for damage. Two disintegrates in a round at 11th level (if overchannel is used)? Sign me up scotty.

Benefits:
1. Removes the necessity for Base attack bonus, though more BAB is still better
2. Arguably increases the damage output capability of this build
3. Reduces MAD, as the character will now only need to focus on Int, Dex, and Con.

Cons:
1. Almost completely worthless against enemies in an AMF or those with prohibative SR/PR
2. No one likes losing base attack bonus... well not me at least
3. Loss of manifester levels is extremely painful now; dips and PrCs that do not advance ML will hurt the functionality of this build.
Khazra Reborn
04-22-06, 07:36 AM
Something to consider, how important are skill points/level? I only say this because the 2skills/level of the sanctified mind was mentioned. When int is your primary stat, surely this is much less of an issue?
_J_
04-22-06, 07:40 AM
Sactified mind acrually has 4 + int skill points per level :D
Tleilaxu_Ghola
04-22-06, 03:03 PM
Something to consider, how important are skill points/level? I only say this because the 2skills/level of the sanctified mind was mentioned. When int is your primary stat, surely this is much less of an issue?

This is true but we want to max out the following skills to fill the "rogue" role:
Search, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Spot, Listen, Concentration

It would also be nice to have:
UPD, UMD, Bluff, and Diplomacy

I had hoped that we could do away with the Hide and Move Silently by using Seer (so as to fill the role of a scout without actually being there and having to make stealth checks). Spot and Listen are still good to have. UMD I decided wasn't terribly necessary and neither is UPD if we go with a caster focus. So the short list is:

Search, Disable Device, Spot, Listen, Bluff, Concentration

That's 6 skills, which is doable even if you only have a +3 int modifier (and are human). So I don't think the number of skill points is so crucial, but more never hurt anyone. I'd like to be able to add UPD, Hide and Move Silently in there too. We could perhaps drop bluff. With 4+int skills per level (from sanctified mind, anarchic initiate, or slayer) this is definately possible. It'd be tight for the low levels (the 4 levels of Seer with 2 + int skills puts a damper on things). Also, anarchic initiate has some pretty high skill reqs (two skills need to be at 8). Like I said a human psi-rogue with 16 int gets 6 skills per level, so we'd have to shorten the list down to 4 skills during that time.

Suffice it to say, this guy is not the complete skill monkey that a rogue is until later. However, we don't NEED all the skills that a rogue uses (like tumble). Just so long as we get the skills that fill the essential role.
johnnype
09-01-06, 01:56 PM
Sorry to bring this thread back up but I'm curious to see if anyone else has any thoughts on this and/or if there are any changes to be made now that a few months have passes and we have a couple of interesting new books (PHB II and Book of Nine Swords) to work with.

I love the idea of a psionic-rogue and there are endless combinations to achieve that. Although the focus of this thread has shifted a bit to a ranged-combat PC I'd like to come up with a stealthy two-weapon user (ideally Kukri). One last thing, I love the Elocater and the Scout. Anyone?
AlienFromBeyond
09-01-06, 02:58 PM
I dunno much about the erudite... I know there's a version of it in CPsi, but I haven't looked at it too much. But I will say this: a psion gets a free bonus feat (psionic or metapsionic) at first level as well, so I see little advantage in being an erudite.
The Psicrystal Affinity feat they get doesn't replace the bonus feat at 1st level, it's in addition to it.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
09-01-06, 08:53 PM
Sorry to bring this thread back up but I'm curious to see if anyone else has any thoughts on this and/or if there are any changes to be made now that a few months have passes and we have a couple of interesting new books (PHB II and Book of Nine Swords) to work with.

I love the idea of a psionic-rogue and there are endless combinations to achieve that. Although the focus of this thread has shifted a bit to a ranged-combat PC I'd like to come up with a stealthy two-weapon user (ideally Kukri). One last thing, I love the Elocater and the Scout. Anyone?
You got me man. ToB + Psionics = not worky so good. Arcane + ToB = JP mage, Divine + ToB = Ruby Vindicator.

Best a psi-rogue can do is dip some ToB classes (at the cost of ML or feats) for some cool stuff. Assassin stance would be nice (+2d6 Sneak Attack). Shadow Blade is teh uber for dex builds (works well with assassin stance or island of blades).

ToB, unlike MoI, doesn't give a whole lot of skillz support though, and that's its main downfall. Well the base classes have a lot of skills (6+int for swordsage is pretty nice) & the martial study feats can make certain skills always class skills. But to my knowledge no maneuvers bump skills except jump or tumble.

PHB 2 brought some stuff in, but not a lot of it was skills-oriented. Like ToB, there's a lot of good combat feats. Too bad feats are not something that Psi-Rogues have an abundance of.
The Psicrystal Affinity feat they get doesn't replace the bonus feat at 1st level, it's in addition to it.
I see that now. That's a pretty good incentive actually. Erudite's quick power learning technique is quite attractive for a campaign filled with other psions. I would certainly consider using the class.

Anyone had any luck with Lurks in a real campaign? I'm still not seeing that class as very potent at all.
RadicalTaoist
09-01-06, 11:10 PM
You got me man. ToB + Psionics = not worky so good.
A-HEM? A fellow named Lester would like to disagree with you. :D


Seriously, though, the psi-gish usually doesn't have enough feats to cut into some hot martial adept action. I'm hoping that the Mind's Eye has the psionic dual-classing equivalent of the Jade Phoenix Mage.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
09-01-06, 11:16 PM
A-HEM? A fellow named Lester would like to disagree with you. :D


Seriously, though, the psi-gish usually doesn't have enough feats to cut into some hot martial adept action. I'm hoping that the Mind's Eye has the psionic dual-classing equivalent of the Jade Phoenix Mage.
Lester is more what I was describing -- psionic with a hint of ToB. That's about the best you can do.

With arcane / divine on the otherhand you can get full integration. 8th level spells & 8th level maneuvers is totally possible.
RadicalTaoist
09-02-06, 10:34 PM
Lester is more what I was describing -- psionic with a hint of ToB. That's about the best you can do.

With arcane / divine on the otherhand you can get full integration. 8th level spells & 8th level maneuvers is totally possible.
I see what you mean by integration.

A psionic equivalent of the Jade Phoenix Mage would be nice. A meldshaper equivalent of the Jade Phoenix Mage would kick unlimited ass.
Tleilaxu_Ghola
09-02-06, 10:53 PM
I see what you mean by integration.

A psionic equivalent of the Jade Phoenix Mage would be nice. A meldshaper equivalent of the Jade Phoenix Mage would kick unlimited ass.
Aye, it would. Incarnum + ToB would be incredibly fun to play, but alas it was not meant to be.

Too bad meldshaper levels don't increase like IL does (1/2 for non-meldshaping classes). The IL system totally rocks for multiclassing.
Blade2718
09-03-06, 01:02 AM
Very minor point, but if you revisit the archer again, get splitting on your bow and you've basically doubled your damage output.
[/spoiler]

awaken DM golem

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2009, 07:25:19 PM »
Good job Paradox.
I've managed to bump, a small pile of my stuff, and some others.

Some Locked threads are now unlocked, and can be recovered. I did that with the Old Lurk thread.
Some threads are at "gleemax.com" locations, and can't be found otherwise.
Some threads are at "wizards.com" locations, and that includes some of the old TO board material that got WSoD; and some test-dev site dumps.
Very weird.
I'm using both glee and wiza locations to find stuff.
Weirder, some of the [archive] material, is not truly archived, and has a link to the non-archived thread, even though it really isn't accessible otherwise.
Most of the [wotc_archive] material, seems to be totally gone.

Par for the course ... grr

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2009, 07:37:12 PM »
Half the stuff I try to find are gone. Basically what I do is find the thread number, and google that with the keyword gleemax. It's making me sad what I can't find. To everyone else, I'll add what you post into the index as a repository.

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2009, 01:25:51 PM »
Lester the Molester by RadicalTaoist (no editing done by me)
[spoiler]
RadicalTaoist
08-30-06, 12:28 PM
Thanks to DisposableHero for ironing this out on MSN with me, and to Tempest for hosting the following image.
http://www.telusplanet.net/~sdupuis/Tempest/riposte.jpg

Lester the Molester: Human Psychic Warrior 14/Crusader1/Psychic Weapon Master5

Class - Feat
Psychic Warrior 1 - Dodge, Psionic Dodge, Combat Reflexes
Psychic Warrior 2 - Link Power (from Complete Psionic)
Psychic Warrior 3 - Weapon Focus (Longsword)
Psychic Warrior 4
Psychic Warrior 5 - Mobility
Psychic Warrior 6 - Psionic Weapon
Psychic Warrior 7
Psychic Warrior 8 - Power Attack
Crusader 1 - Combat Expertise
Psychic Warrior 9
Psychic Weapon Master 1
Psychic Weapon Master 2 - Karmic Strike (from Complete Warrior)
Psychic Warrior 10
Psychic Warrior 11 - Martial Stance (From Tome of Battle)
Psychic Weapon Master 3 - Robilar's Gambit (From the PHB2)
Psychic Weapon Master 4
Psychic Weapon Master 5 - Combat Reflexes is improved to grant an additional number of AoOs a round equal to my Wisdom bonus
Psychic Warrior 12 - Mage Slayer (From Complete Arcane)
Psychic Warrior 13
Psychic Warrior 14 - Defensive Sweep (From the Player's Handbook II)
All feats not given sources can be found in the SRD. Some are psionic feats. The Psychic Warrior is from the Expanded Psionics Handbook, the Crusader is from Tome of Battle, and the Psychic Weapon Master (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827d) can be found in the Mind's Eye, on that link.

Power name (power level, source, character level at which it is received)
Adrenaline Boost (1st, Complete Psionic, 1)
Expansion (1st, Expanded Psionic Handbook, 2)
Biofeedback (1st, XPH, 3)
Strength of my Enemy (2nd, XPH, 4)
Reach (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827ehttp://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9947791) build.

It may be a bit more complex, but it's so tightly optimized that it's what I would consider an "elegant" build.
RadicalTaoist
09-04-06, 02:36 AM
Flatterers, all of you.

T_G, suggestions for a Warblade 20 take (Lester's sister Tess the Molestress)?
Tleilaxu_Ghola
09-04-06, 03:24 PM
Flatterers, all of you.

T_G, suggestions for a Warblade 20 take (Lester's sister Tess the Molestress)?
Hmmm

Warblade 20 is a little overboard, me thinks. I would like to dip around a bit to pimp it out some more. Optimizing for the warblade's 20th level ability seems silly to me.

The focus should be on getting warblade to mix w/ some more int synergy and then work in some high-powered short dips to grab some good class abilities or feats.

As you've found with Lester the two most important maneuvers are thicket of blades and defensive rebuke. Mix that w/ a goodly amount of reach & we have a winner. Unfortunately for a warblade that would mean that we need to invest 2 feats. *le sigh*

Spiked chain is an obvious weapon of choice for a few reasons: finessable (this synergizes with a high dex needed for a lot of AoOs), reach weapon but able to attack adjacent squares, it's exotic (this is good for getting some EWM tricks).

I'll ponder the finer details...
boffer
09-04-06, 04:19 PM
I would make the siblings some kind of battlefield controllers... using throws, bull-rushes, knock-back weapons, awesome blow, and similar effects to get people into his threatened area... something as simple as mighty throw could really mess up a characters day...
tsuyoshikentsu
09-04-06, 09:01 PM
Ugh. I'm working on a build right now that forces enemies to attack it and is almost impossible to hit, but it's hard going -- the feat requirements are insane.

It's fine at level 20, of course, butyou get such random abilities earlier on that survival would be questionable at best.
RadicalTaoist
09-27-06, 11:07 AM
Here's Lester's little brother!
Rhonin the Big
11-16-06, 12:09 AM
A big suggestion: Drop either Rolibar's gambit or karmic strike for Defensive Sweep. If they move in Thicket of Blades its an AoO, but Defensive Sweep gives you an AoO if they remain in your threatened area from their 1st turn to their next.

Remind me to smack you with that White Raven boost that denies you AoOs for 3 rounds, Nox too. Very nice build, though a bit suggestive.
carnivore
11-22-06, 12:21 PM
:bump: for the link


:D
wolfie-kun
11-22-06, 01:13 PM
If you want to see build elegance, take a look at wolfie-kun's Ruby Shadow (http://boards.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=9947791) build.

It may be a bit more complex, but it's so tightly optimized that it's what I would consider an "elegant" build.
Wow, people are linking to that build left and right...is it seriously that good?

Btw, RadicalToaist, I want to find a DM that would let me use Lester. This looks like a really, really fun build (don't remember if I've mentioned this before or not, I use much smaller #posts/page sizes than normal, and don't want to search through the thread).
RadicalTaoist
11-22-06, 10:57 PM
Well, Lester's problem as far as DM acceptance is not so much the power level he attains but the amount of AoO-mid-turn adjudication he requires. Your DM might get irritated at having to ask you to roll for an AoO every thirty seconds. Remember those abusive Dervish builds with 24 attacks per full attack that take half an hour to resolve their turns? You may be like that, except on everyone else's turns.
wolfie-kun
11-22-06, 11:34 PM
Well, Lester's problem as far as DM acceptance is not so much the power level he attains but the amount of AoO-mid-turn adjudication he requires. Your DM might get irritated at having to ask you to roll for an AoO every thirty seconds. Remember those abusive Dervish builds with 24 attacks per full attack that take half an hour to resolve their turns? You may be like that, except on everyone else's turns.
Bah, just grabbing Stormgaurd Warrior would keep that from being an issue. I really meant I want to find a 3.5 DM who will allow ToB and psionics...
RadicalTaoist
11-23-06, 09:26 AM
Well, not much I can help you with there, I happen to be playing under two but they live in a different province and I need OpenRPG to play with them over the 'net.
RadicalTaoist
12-18-06, 12:17 PM
Followed the advice of many and put Mage Slayer and Defensive Sweep in for Lester's last feats. Did I get Defensive Sweep's prereqs right?
Rhonin the Big
12-19-06, 01:53 PM
All defensive sweep requires is BaB +15
Tleilaxu_Ghola
12-19-06, 02:03 PM
Now for an interesting twist. Flanking optimization.

There are a couple of abilities that help with this:
Warblade's int to damage while flanking
Vexing Flanker (+4 to attack while flanking)
Wolf Tactics Stance (1/2 IL to damage while flanking).
Adaptable Flanker/Elocator (Shift your flanking position for flanking purposes).


All of this is fairly accessable to a straight warblade. It would require 3 feats (combat reflexes, vexing flanker, adaptable flanker). Helloooo human bonus feat. You could have this puppy running by 3rd level (minus the int to damage bit, which IIRC you'd get at 7th warblade level).

Mix with a pole arm (for reach) and armor spikes (to attack adjacent foes) and you may just have a winner. Your armor spikes could also have the defending enhancement to shift their enhancement bonus over to AC when you're not using them.


Food for thought.
Rhonin the Big
12-20-06, 05:21 PM
Put the Harmony enhancement on that polearm for an extra +2 on attack rolls while flanking, power attack is obvious for this warblade. The prob'm is you need an ally for flanking (unless your DM allows adaptable flanker to flank with yourself), you also need high reach and if your opponent has improved uncanny dodge you're as useless as an ooze wizard.
RadicalTaoist
12-21-06, 09:45 PM
Tess the Molestress, their older sister, is complete.
Rhonin the Big
12-21-06, 10:36 PM
Add some Warforged Juggernaut onto Molestron just for the hell of it.
Rhonin the Big
12-26-06, 09:24 PM
:bump: Hey RT, do you think Nox (http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=3511) is worthy of becoming an honorary Molester?
RadicalTaoist
12-31-06, 04:50 PM
I'd say he deserves adoption.

While we're at it, I'd like to extend the family to chifari's excellent Aberrant Blade build, Bess the Molestress.
Evandariel
05-21-07, 12:39 PM
Once your enemies realize that you'll rape anything that moves within your reach, they'll stop coming into your reach. What do you do next? Do you hope that you raped them to death?

I know this is an old thread but I had a question. Wouldn't the Stand Still feat make sure you can keep enemies from evading your reach? Give up your aoo, and they have to make a ref check at 10+damage or end their move action where they are? or does it contradict other feats/abilities for the build?
RadicalTaoist
05-21-07, 01:48 PM
Well, you can switch feats out if you so wish. Lester is more about killing things dead with AoOs than battlefield control; look to his brother Chester the Molester for that.
cobberman
06-21-07, 09:20 AM
Once your enemies realize that you'll rape anything that moves within your reach, they'll stop coming into your reach. What do you do next? Do you hope that you raped them to death?

The Goad Feat might work, or a few levels in Knight, i belive they get the abilty to make targets attack them and not allies.
RadicalTaoist
07-05-07, 11:40 PM
Preparing for Nestor...
dead_radish
07-06-07, 11:00 AM
I just finished working on a build similar to this, though it's nowhere near as nasty at level 9.

But a very belated question:

Does Stormguard warrior trigger when someone provokes an AoO, but you don't have the ability to take one?

IE you have 10 AoOs for the round, and use them. On AoO provoke #11, can you just say "I get +4 from Stormguard next turn"?
Tempest Stormwind
07-06-07, 11:08 AM
No, because you don't have an AoO to forfeit.
RadicalTaoist
07-11-07, 12:17 AM
This should be the last of the Molesters for a while. Currently Under Construction.

Nestor the Molester: Human Psychic Warrior 14/Crusader1/War Mind5

Class - Feat
Psychic Warrior 1 - Two Feats, Combat Reflexes
Psychic Warrior 2 - Link Power
Psychic Warrior 3 - Feat
Psychic Warrior 4
Psychic Warrior 5 - Feat
War Mind 1 - Feat
War Mind 2
War Mind 3
Crusader 1 - Martial Stance: Thicket of Blades
War Mind 4
War Mind 5
Psychic Warrior 6 - Feat
Psychic Warrior 7
Psychic Warrior 8 - Robilar's Gambit
Psychic Warrior 9 - Feat
Psychic Warrior 10
Psychic Warrior 11 - Martial Study: Rapid Counter
Psychic Warrior 12 - Defensive Sweep
Psychic Warrior 13
Psychic Warrior 14 - Feat


You have 8 free feats. These should include following AoO-enablers:
Mage Slayer (no more casting defensively)
Supernatural Reflexes (supernatural abilities now all provoke AoOs)
Stand Still (exchange damage on a movement-provoked AoO to reduce a foe's move speed to 0)
Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain or Spinning Sword (gotta have that reach, use a reach weapon and Improved Unarmed Strike if we can't otherwise)
Combat Expertise and Improved Trip (basic battlefield control)

Other excellent feats include:
Practiced Manifester
Psychic Meditation
Metapower: Link Power
Extra Granted Maneuver
Extra Readied Maneuver (after getting Rapid Counter)
Evasive Reflexes
Possibly shooting out after Stormguard Warrior for Channel the Storm
If an unarmed specialist, Snap Kick and Improved Grapple are promising.

Essential Powers
Expansion (1st, Expanded Psionic Handbook, 2)
Biofeedback (1st, XPH, 3)
Strength of my Enemy
Reach (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e)
Prowess
Vampiric Blade
Dimension Slide
Power Weapon
Inertial Armor
Perfect Riposte
Dispelling Buffer
If a tripper, Catfall
If a grappler, Grip of Iron

Your War Mind powers should be cheap little things that require no augmentation (read: Prowess and Catfall).
Immediate and swift action powers are especially important due to their synergy with Link Power


Essential Crusader Maneuvers:
Defensive Rebuke, 3rd level Devoted Spirit boost
Rapid Counter, 5th level Diamond Mind counter

Essential Stances:
Thicket of Blades, 3rd level Devoted Spirit stance (gained through the Martial Stance feat)

Still working Nestor out. Having Lester's build freed from the feat demands of Psychic Weapon Master helps a lot; less AoOs hurt but I have Prowess and Rapid Counter to make up for it.

As you can see, Nestor has a lot of details left unfinished and is still in a modular state, leaving him flexible and adjustable to your game. Your suggestions would be appreciated.[/spoiler]

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2009, 01:49:49 PM »
Psychic Warrior Build Guide and Compendium by WyvernSlayer (I did minor editing taking out some useless tags and added spoilers to the chapters to condense it for ease of scrolling)

Table of Contents:

1- Introduction
2- Overview of the Psychic Warrior
a: The Psychic Warrior Skeleton
b: Statistics
c: Races
d: Classes
3- Build Tips
4- Feats
5- Items
6- Powers Breakdown
7- Compendium


Introduction and Overview
1&2[spoiler]
Hi, and welcome to my revision of the Psychic Warrior Build Guide & Compendium. The focus of this version of the PWBG&C as opposed to the previous 3.0 and 3.5 versions is to basically provide a strong working knowledge of the class and how it operates, and then lastly provide builds for the compendium as a guide for players to draw on for mechanical ideas. I originally wrote the very first guide to psychic warriors back in version 3.0, because there was no guide available for psychic warriors, and I was unable to get much help on the topic. I hope to continue the trend of alleviating that problem with this update of the guide. Enjoy!

Overview of the Psychic Warrior

The Psychic Warrior Skeleton.

Hit Die: D8- The psychic warrior is on the intermediary hit die of d8. This might look a bit low at first, until you realize the full entourage of defenses available via powers.

BAB: Secondary- As above, it looks "off" for a melee class, but it's pretty much on target. PW's can keep up with any other melee class with ease via powers. The biggest problem I see here is lack of a 4th attack from having a high base attack bonus, eg, 16 BAB or better.

Saves: Best Fort, Poor Reflex and Will- Again, Will and reflex look low, but the right powers can easily balance this out. Will tends to be higher then for most other melee classes because the PW actually needs wisdom.

Skills: 2+ Int Modifier- The psychic warrior does not receive nearly the skills it had in the past, but it does get Autohypnosis, which is insanely useful, as well as Concentration, which should always be maxed out normally.

Statistics: The psychic warrior is very versatile, and can be played with as little as one (extreme) high statistic, to the usual number of 3-4. I recommend playing with a good Strength, Constitution, Wisdom, and Dexterity (in that order) as your mainstays. Charisma and Intelligence tend to be dumpstats, but they can also have their uses as well.

Races: The races available to psychic warrior have little to no bearing on the class normally, but there are exceptions to this statement, as some of the races are exceptionally good depending on what you want to do with the class. In general I tend to discourage small races due to lessened damage output, but they still make excellent PW's.

My top picks for race are (in no particular order):

Psionic Races

Synad- You get darkvision, a +2 bonus on any one d20 check pretty much, +2 Will, and Synad Multi-task. 3 bonus pp to boot. Abberation typed. Excellent race, and my personal favorite.

Maenad- 2 Bonus pp and their Outburst ability or whatever, it gives them a +2 to Str, but -2 to Int and Wisdom for 4 rounds once per day. It's good, but I don't like the temporary loss of bonus PP it nets you for it's duration. You can take a racial feat to get this more times per day. Energy Ray 1/x day at 1/2 character level for manifester level.

Half Giant- +2 Str and Con, -2 Dex, giant typed, and powerfully built. They are level adjusted by one, but are easily worth the adjustment thanks to powerful build. Their racial Stomp ability is useful at low levels. They also have Low-Light vision and 2 bonus pp.

Xeph- Xephs get Darkvision, +1 to all saves, 1 bonus pp, and Burst. Burst itself is marginally useful, but they can get Xeph Celerity which burns a Burst for an Extra Attack during a Full Attack. Very handy. +2 Dex -2 Str.

Elan- They are immortal, and have very useful racial abilities, as well as are aberration typed. -2 Charisma

Athasian Human- Incredibly strong, they are level adjusted by one, receive +2 to two seperate stats, and get bonus pp and 4 powers from the psion/wilder list at varying levels. This can be found in an issue of Dragon Magazine (issue 319). Darksun Setting.

Mul- Also from Darksun, these boys get +2 Strength and +4 Constitution, and get all sorts of recovery options for resting and healing, eventually gaining Fast Heal! +1 Lvl adj.

Maenad- Darksun setting, as normal, but also receives +4 Charisma. +1 Lvl adj.

Kalashtar- Eberron setting. They receive +2 on saves versus mind affecting, Mind Link 1/x day, and 1 bonus PP per level (good for higher level play for more manifestations), as well as immunity to certain dream based spells/powers. Overall I feel they are a tad weak when compared to some of the other psionic races that are available, though the free mindlink can help on dungeon crawls, and the bonus vs mind affecting is great.

Non-Psionic

Human- Standard fare here, bonus feat and skills are handy though lack of bonus pp hurts in the early game. In fact, this is a detriment to any race that is non-psionic. Bear this in mind.

Dwarf- Pretty strong, dwarven racials help stave off poison, spells and abilities, con helps you last longer, and free Exotic Weapon Proficiency with the Dwarven waraxe never hurts. Stability is a bonus and Darkvision rules...I hate dwarves haha.

Half-Orc- Darkvision and +2 Strength are the strong points here. -2 to Int and Charisma leave your wisdom alone, but the Int penalty can hurt if you were hoping to consider a tactical build.

Shifter- Eberron setting, these guys get a nice racial trait which can help power your design with a nice stat boost and utilitarian ability.

Changeling- Eberron setting, these guys are here because of their easy access to Warshaper prestige class.

Goliath- Similar to Half-Giant but you get a +4 to strength as well as powerful build, but no psionic anything. Nice and beefy though.

Multiclassing: Multiclassing is not as restrictive as it has been in the past thanks to new feats and classes being introduced over time, but this doesn't change the fact that there is very little to pick from. Slayer (Illithid Slayer in the Expanded Psionics Handbook), and Sanctified Mind (from Lords of Madness), tend to be the most powerful. Each offers Full BAB with good Will ,or Fort and Will respectively, with various useful special abilites. Each class only loses one manifester level for going into them. As a side note here, you should never try to intentionally lose manifester levels as a rule of thumb, though there are plenty of exceptions. [/spoiler]

Build Tips
3[spoiler]
The psychic warrior is one of my favorite classes, but also one of the most balanced. It maintains it's strength through all levels of play, having no "weak spot" at any points in it's level ups. You can build pretty much any melee unit you can think of, and decently powerful ranged units as well. It is incredibly resilient and self-reliant, possessing the ability to recover or fight through challenges that are beyond most other melee units. Typically speaking most units are going to want the highest Strength possible, rounding it out with a decent Constitution and Wisdom. Dex can be low but I wouldn't ignore it too much as you already are on worst reflex, and over reliance on powers is always bad.

On 28 point buy I would suggest 16 Str, 12 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 14 Wis, 8 Cha, or perhaps 15 Str and 14 Dex, as the norm. If you are a ranged unit just switch Dex with Str. Wisdom is important, but as you need only a 16 Wisdom to access your highest powers known later on, you don't really need to invest a large ammount of points or ability scores into it. Int is only a consideration if you are looking for Combat Expertise, and it's subsidiary feats. Once you pick a focus for your character, make sure you stick with it. Oftentimes people decide they want to do something with their character and end up getting distracted![/spoiler]
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 04:27:23 PM by Paradox »

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2009, 01:50:43 PM »
4-6


Feats
4[spoiler]
There are many great feats, but I am only going to talk about ones that are very impactual to any PW build here.

Psychic Meditation- It's ability to make Psionic Focus attainment a move action is paramount to many designs.

Expanded Knowledge- This Feat lets you learn a power that isn't normally available to your list. It has the drawback that you must learn a power one level lower then the highest you can manifest, but it still enables you to learn key powers like Metamorphosis and Schism.

Practiced Manifester- This feat grants you +4 manifester levels. It can help shore up manifester holes from taking non-psionic manifesting levels in other classes, or just the lack of some, such as the first level of Slayer or Sanctified Mind and so on. It also has the bonus of granting Schism +4 Manifester levels, making Schism even more powerful when you use it.

Linked Power- This feat enables you to manifest a power next turn, by manifesting it with a power this turn. You still pay the whole cost and whant not, but it is very powerful if you attach it to something you are going to use a lot. Common choices are Dimension Hop, Vigor, Dimension Slide, Hustle.

Metapower- Very useful with Linked Power to help reduce costs of things that you may end up manifesting a lot.

Mantled Warrior- While not really a feat (this is an alternate class feature found on the Mind's Eye), this is very good due to the fact that it gives you access to not only a mantle, but many powers not normally available to you, as well as Don Mantle and Tap Mantle. My top choice would be the Freedom mantle over all other for most use, but I do recommend Time Mantle for it's Temporal Accleration and granted ability, as well as Nature Mantle for Metamorphosis. As an interesting aside, don't forget about the Good or Evil Mantle. Both of them afford you with Protection from Alignment, and grant you Planar Apotheosis and more, which enables you to Metamorph into an extra planar entity. Most popular combat choice is the Planetar.

Also note that while you may not be able to access powers higher then 6th level from your mantles, they are still on your list, meaning you can access them via certain items like Dorjes.

Soulbound Weapon- This ability (like Mantle Trained)summons a specific weapon, one of your choice whenever you use it, grants you Weapon Focus for Free, and nets you free Enhancements on the weapon. Not the powerhouse that the other feats/abilites are, but still solid.

Earth Sense- This lets you know that something is within 20' of you on the ground. While nifty it's really here because of...

Earth Power- As long as you are standing on the ground, you may reduce pp costs by one point. An excellent feat, especially since Psychic Warrior is already starved for power points.[/spoiler]

Items
5[spoiler]
I don't really stress Items normally but here is a small tidbit list of items to keep your eyes peeled for.

Deep Crystal Weapons- These are great because you can fuel pp into them for extra damage. Always handy.

Torc of Power Preservation- Reducing PP costs never, ever sucks.

Boots of Temporal Acceleration- Two rounds of Timestop attached to boots...yeah.[/spoiler]


Powers (XPH)
6[spoiler]
Powers Section

Here I will cover many of the powers that are of use to the PW.

1st Level Powers

Offensive

Bite of the Wolf- Still good for 1d8 of bite lovin damage.

Claws of the Beast: 1d4 of claw dmg, albeit for two attacks at lower levels. You can augment it by paying additional power points. It's biggest normal use is getting you two attacks long before you would normally get one (at 8th level). Dur 1hr/lvl. Great power.

Dissipating Touch: 1d6 for 1pp, and you can pay an additional point (unlimited) for an additional 1d6...

Expansion: Very good as always, there's nothing wrong with being Large! It now also comes with augmentation!

Grip of Iron: +4 to Grapple! and it can be augmented!

Hammer: 1d8 touch attack that lasts for one round...even with augmentation this does not get my thumbs up.

Metaphysical Claw: You are only able to manifest this power on another various claw power, or natural claw weapon. Augmentable. 1min/ lvl

Metaphysical Weapon: Still good, and of course augmentable. 1 min/lvl

Precognitive Offense: +1 on attack rolls and augmentable for Swift and higher Atk. 3pps for Atk, 6 for swift. Excellent.

Prescienct Offense: +2 to dmg, and augmentable for more Dmg and Swift, for 3 & 6 pp's respectively. Okay.

Defensive Powers

Biofeedback- This former god power is now relegated to DR 2/-
You can augment it by 1/- for every 3pp you spend in addition. 1 min/lvl.

Catfall- Catfall still rocks, even if you have to pay 1pp for it. It is now augmentable also by paying one PP per 10'. Immediate action.

Empty mind- +2 on will saves til next action. Immediate action. Mediocre.

Force Screen: the Shield of Psionics! 1/min lvl Augmentable by 1 for 4 pp's.

Inertial Armor- The mage armor of Psionics, Augmentable by 1 for 2 pp's. 1/hr lvl Very Good.

Precognitive Defense- +1 insight to ac and saves! Augmentable by 1 for 3 pp's, Swift for 6.

Thicken Skin: +1 enhancement bonust to AC for 10 min/lvl. Augmentable by 1 for 3 pp's, Swift for 6.

Vigor: +5 temporary HP, Augmentable by 5 for 1pp. 1min/lvl. Excellent.

Utility

Burst: move +10' for 1 round, swift action...eh

Call Weaponry: This old power got a neat twist, now you can still call a weapon, but if you Augment by 4 it gains an enhancement bonus by 1.

Compression: It has it's uses if you need to shrink for some reason.

Detect Psionics: Do we need to cover this?

Elfsight: Useful if you like low-light vision.

Skate: A staple power for movement based builds now. +15' movement.

Stomp: This can be very useful at low-levels.

2nd Level Powers

Offensive

Dissolving Touch- 4d6 acid, augmentable b 1d6 for every 2 pp's spent. Useful if you need acid dmg, otherwise dissipating touch is better in the long run.

Dissolving Weapon- See above.

Painful Strike: 1d6 subdual on top of your normal natural weapon. Augmentable by 6 for Swift.

Psionic Lions Charge- Charge and than full attack...augmentable by 1pp to gain an extra dmg on each attack afterwards...Excellent.

Strength of my Enemy- This is actually really good in boss battles or battles with powerful melee foes, it does 1 str dmg per hit and adds it to your own (cap is @ +8). If you hit multiple targets, the str is tracked seperately and you gain the highest. Augmentable by 3 pp's to max the cap by 2, 6 for swift.

Defensive

Body Adjustment- Heal 1d12 of dmg, augmentable by 2pp's to heal an additional 1d12. Not bad.

Body Purification- Heals 2 ability points, but not against ability drain..augmentable by 1ppt to heal 1abpt. Pretty Good.

Concealing Amorpha- 20% miss chance. 1 min/lvl. Ok.

Energy Adaptation, specified- Specific elemental resist 10, later increasing to 20 @ 9th lvl, and 30 @ 13th lvl. Augment by 4 to Immediate. 10/min lvl. Good.

Sustenance- Go 24 hours w/o food and drink. This is just cool.

Thought Shield- you gain PR 13 against mind-affecting. Augment by 1 to increase by one. Lasts one round, eh.

Utility

Animal Affinity- This former god is still pretty darn good considering it's flexibility. +4 to any stat (enhancement bonus) Lasts 1/min lvl.

Darkvision- it's there if you need it. 1/hr lvl.

Detect Hostile Intent- This is actually very good in my book. 30 radius centered on you let's you become aware of anyone with hostile intent towards you. You also cannot be caught flat-footed or surprised by anyone that is susceptible to mind-affecting powers. You also gain the ability to make sense motive checks on anyone w/i 30 ' of you. Lasts 10 min/lvl.

Hustle- You abolutely have to take this power in my book. It grants you an extra move action as a swift action.

Levitate- useful

Prowess- Gain another atk of opportunity. This is okay depending on your build.

Psionic Scent- I am a big fan Scent.

Wall Walker- Very useful.

3rd Level Powers

Offensive

Claws of the Vampire- This is a power that got hit hard, it now heals only half the base damage dealt. It is still useful with the other claw powers thanks to augmentation. 1/rnd lvl.

DuoDimensional Claw- Keen Claw 10/min lvl

Empathic Feedback- Your attacker takes 5 points of Empathic dmg or whichever is less of whatever they deal to you.. Augmentable by 1 for 1pp. 10 min/ lvl Excellent.

Empathic Transfer, Hostile- Errata has housed this power. The new version is in Complete Psionic.

Graft Weapon- Still the same

Keen Edge- Makes a weapon keen.

Vampiric Blade- See Claws of the Vampire.

Defensive

Greater Concealing Amorpha- 50% concealment. 1/rnd lvl Woot.

Danger Sense- +4 to saves vs. traps. Dungeon Crawl...but that's about it.

Evade Burst- Evasion as an immediate action- good for the Dungeon Crawl...

Mental Barrier: Gain +4 deflection to AC as a an immediate action. Augmentable by 4 to increase the bonus by one, or by 1 to increase duration by 1/rnd. Lasts 1 rnd. Pretty nifty I guess.

Utility

Dimension Slide- Dimension Door with weight limit of 20 lbs. Augment by 4 to do as a move equivalent. Very Good.

Ectoplasmic Form- basically gaseous form, seems out of flavor.

Escape Detection- useful as a utililty power, build depending. lasts 1hr/ lvl.

Ubiquitous Vision- 360 degree vision, prevents you from being flanked, but makes you more susceptible to gaze attacks, you also gain +4 enhancement to spot and search. 10 min/lvl ..not bad.

4th Level Powers

Offensive

Claw of Energy- useful at times.

TrueVenom- 1d8 con dmg with 2ndary save- just toss it on your claw and your good to go...last 1min/lvl or until discharged.

TrueVenom Weapon- This has potential. 1min/lvl.

Weapon of Energy- Gain an elemental burst on your weapon. lasts 1 rnd/lvl. There's some potential here.

Defensive

Energy Adaptation- You gain elemental resistance 10, than 20 @ 9th and 30 @ 13th. Augment by 4 to manifest Immediately. Excellent.

Inertial barrier- Gain DR 5/-. It also absorbs 1/2 dmg from falling. Ok. 10 min/ lvl

Steadfast Perception- You become immune to illusions (figments and glamers only) and gain +6 enhancement on search & spot checks. This is more of a utility spell but I put it here instead.

Utility

Dimenesion Door, Psionic- It's Dimension door, with an augment of 4 to do as a move equivalent!

Psionic Freedom of Movement- It's freedom of movement. Lasts 10 min/ lvl. Good as always.

5th Level Powers

Offensive

PsychoFeedback- A bit more balanced than before in my opinion, this power is still very good. You now sack a nonphysical stat (int, wis, cha) to bump up a physical one by whatever amount you sac. The only downside is ability Burn, which can only be healed naturally. Read up on this one more for a better explanation. 1 rnd/lvl

Def

Adapt Body- Automatically adapt to hostile terrain. Not bad. Lasts 1/hr lvl.

Catapsi- You make all other Psionics cost 4 more pp's than usual, with manifester level caps still in effect. It has a 30' radius, and Augmentation of 4pp's to increase radius by 5'. Will negates though...

Oak Body- This power is too lengthy and not that great.

6th Level Powers

Offensive

Breath of the Black Dragon- 11d6 acid dmg, augment by 1pp to gain 1d6 dmg. This is just good.

Form of Doom- Okay, DR 5/-, Natural Armor 5, +4 Enhancement to Str, +10 movement (land), and +10 Climb& Jump. You also gain Frightful Presence DC 16+cha mod, and 4 tentacles that you can attack with at -5 penalties during Full attack. If you FA with the Tentacles only they do 2d8 + 1.5 str bonus on each strike. This is just really cool in my opinion, as well as just plain old good.

Defensive

Dispelling Buffer- The new version of Ablating, it's still a mandatory on my list. It adds +5 to the DC of all dispel checks against it, but is checked last against targeted dispel, and is checked according to it's level for area dispel.

Mind Blank, Personal- This is just too good to not have, nuf said.

Utility

Suspend Life- eh. It has it's uses.

Powers, from CPsi

First Level Powers

Adrenaline Boost- Swift power, pretty neat, duration is terrible.

Call Armor- This is very useful.

Deaden Blow- lets you do nonlethal...I'd rather take the penalty though.

Extend Range- Very cool for hitting targets from miles away.

Inspire Mount- Very Case specific, but good at what it does.

Mighty Spring- This one gets my attention thanks to my love of Battlejump and Leap Attack.

2nd Level Powers

Damp Power- This knocks down all numeric variables form spells, powers, and effects to 1...it is a bit more limiting than it sounds, but it's a very good power in my book. You can even augment it to affect allies.

Energy Emanation- I like the idea of my enemies taking damage because they are even near me. Throw in psionics love of varied effects based on energy type and you have a decent power.

Extend Reach- It's back, it's weaker, but it is still a solid power. I should like to throw this on a use activated item.

Moment of Insight- Vanilla? It has it's uses. Eh.

Perfect Archery- An absolute must have for any archer, it prevents AoO for firing a ranged weapon. Excellent Excellent.

Stygian Erasure- I hate negative levels. If you're in a campaign that features undead and negative energy you can't go wrong with this one.

3rd Level Powers

Empathic Transfer, Hostile has been modified. It's weaker now in every respect, and it still does not have an increasing save DC. Why? The only thing I like about it is being able to select my targets at an earlier level and avoiding friendly fire. Disappointing overall though.

Stygian Bane- Case specific again, but worth it in an undead setting.

Telekinetic Boomerang- From Races of Stone (or Wild) I believe, I just love this power, awesome for throwing your best weapon over and over again.

4th Level Powers

Dimension Door, Psionic- This received even more options. Better than ever.

Planar Apotheosis- I like the flavor and feel of this, especially since it seems to combine a few different powers/abilities into one neat package. Not overly strong, but strong enough, as well as good flavor.

Psychokinetic Weapon- At first I thought this would be a terrible power, but it is actually quite good. I doubt I would take it early on, since there are many other better 4th level powers, but maybe later on, when I get to the 5th level stuff...

Stygian Disruption- The whole stygian line is good for one thing, but they are ever so good at it.

5th Level Powers

5th level powers still suck overall. I almost always end up taking other, weaker powers that are much more useful.

Empower Weapon- I would definitely put this on a weapon via craft, and it's a good "for later use" ability on a boring day in the life of an adventurer. It's okay.

Perfect Riposte- From Races of Stone, I absolutely love this power, especially for tanking or other high AC builds. Free attacks are never bad.

Stomp, Greater- A great tactical move but...PW really never has that high of a save DC, or an overabundance of pp's...

6th Level Powers

Inconstant Location- This lets you teleport anywhere you can see as a swift action at the beginning of each of your turns (optional). It doesn't provoke AoO's, and you can move anywhere you could normally move, and carry your max load all at the same time. This is just ...awesomely neat.

Mind over Energy- Immunity to one energy type...pretty good though Energy Adaptation usually covers this angle very well, and with a lot more versatility.

Rage of the Remorhaz- Fire only, but it does much more than energy emanation, but functions only when you get hit (touched).[/spoiler]

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2009, 01:52:00 PM »
and my favorite part

Build Compendium
7[spoiler]
Below are some example builds for the guide, feel free to add any if you wish. I've tried to keep a lot of the builds simple, though some may vary quite a bit from the norm. All in all these basically just serve to demonstrate some of the things that the PW is capable of. Enjoy!

1: Sword & Shield (Sword & Board)
2: Two Hand Weapon
3: Dual Wielding
4: Polearms
5: Archery
6: Thrown
7: Unarmed
8: Spiked Chain/Chain Lash
9: Critical
10: Miscellaneous
11: Grapple
12: Dual Weapon
13: Mounted Builds

Sword & Shield Builds

Sword & Board AC Build

Human, PW 20

1: Combat Manifesting
1: Shield Specialization- Extreme Shield
1: Focused Shield
2: Mantle Trained- Freedom
3: Tap Mantle
5: Shielded Manifesting
6: Shield Ward
8: Exotic Armor Proficiency- Dwarven Battle Plate
9: Heavy Armor Optimization
11: Deflective Armor
12: Combat Expertise
14: Expanded Knowledge: Schism
15: Psychic Meditation
17: Overchannel
18: Talented
20: Greater Heavy Armor Optimization

This build concentrated on AC, but getting the most out of it. Use the Extreme Shield Variant from Races of Stone to sub out proficiency with Tower Shields for Extreme Shields. Right from the start you can get a +5 Shield bonus to AC. Assume a Chain Shirt and a 12 Dexterity and you start off with 20 AC at level one with ease. Over time you fill up using the heaviest armors you can find, using Heavy Armor Optimization to enhance them, and grab Shield Ward and Deflective Armor to get your touch AC up, as well as being more resistant to grapples, trips, etc etc. I recommend taking Iron Will at level 12 if you are interested in pursuing Sanctified Mind as well, and are willing to forgo Overchannel/Talented line. Powers like Defensive Precognition, Thicken Skin and so on help this build to keep it's AC and saves high, and powers like Dampen Power help to shore up weaknesses like low Reflex, feats like Shielded Manifesting insure that you are always pumping out powers with no worry.

Sword & Shield Tactical Build

PW14/SM6, Human

1: Improved Shield Bash
1: Combat Expertise
1: Improved Trip
2: Two-Weapon Fighting
3: Oversized TWF
5: Shield Charge
6: Combat Reflexes
8: Two Weapon Pounce
9: Shield Slam
11: Power Attack
12: Iron Will
14: Psychic Meditation
15: Psionic Weapon
18: Deep Impact

This is a Sword & Shield Build that takes advantage of having a shield, but shores up the typical weakness of such builds by playing a bit more tactically. It doesn't have the sheer AC of other builds, or the sheer damage or control of other builds, but it touches on all various aspects with relative ease. The build utilizes a shield for Defense, but also for damage as well. Oversized Two Weapon Fighting enables you to Dual Wield your Heavy Shield at a -2 penalty. Your main hand weapon is the flail. This useful one handed weapon can be used both to make trip attempts, and nets you a +2 bonus on disarm checks. For rare occasions where you don't have your flail, Shield Charge still lets you make a trip attempt on charge with your shield, and paves the way for Shield Slam later. Shield Slam has a very good chance of Dazing your target based on it's 10+1/2 character level +STR mod DC save. Two Weapon Pounce comes in later, letting you attempt Dazes and trips all in the same charge. Combat Reflexes is there to let you gain extra Attacks of Opportunity on downed foes, and Power Attack nets you extra damage versus those same foes as well. Iron Will sets up for Sanctified Mind, with Psionic Weapon setting up for Deep Impact at the higher levels. At the end of this you get the ability to trip, daze, twf, and disarm, as well as take advantage of some other slight possibilities.

Two Hand Weapons

1: Power Attack
1: Cleave
1: Furious Charge/Reckless Charge
2: Up the Walls
3: Dodge
5: Leap Attack
6: Improved Bull Rush
8: Shock Trooper
9: Combat Expertise
11: Karmic Strike
12: Combat Reflexes
14: Leap of the Heavens
15: Expanded Knowledge-Schism or metamorphosis
17: Psychic Meditation
18: Psionic Weapon
20: Deep Impact

A sample design, this build enables you to make best use of Leap Attack by letting you fill it's requisite activation easily via Up the Walls. Later on Leap of the Heavens is used so you can just jump straightaway if there is nothing available to "Up the Walls." You get to Shock Trooper as early as possible to get best bang for your buck with Power Attack and Leap attack, and round it out with Karmic Strike/ Combat Reflexes line for additional firepower. Expanded Knowledge-Schism or Metamorphosis will insure your longevity, and Psychic Meditation line rounds you out to get to Deep Impact at the End. If Deep Impact comes to late for you just try subbing it in earlier and moving leap of the heavens to the end. Just make sure you grab a deep crystal weapon!

Dual Wielding

Dual Wielding Strength Build

Human, PW14, Sanctified Mind 6
1: Two-Weapon fighting
1: Power Attack
1: Cleave
2: Mantle Trained- Freedom
3: Tap Mantle
5: Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting
6: Exotic Weapon Proficiency- Heavy Bastard Sword or Heavy Dwarven Waraxe.
8: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9: Weapon Focus- Heavy Bastard Sword
11: Improved Critical
12: Iron Will
14: Expanded Knowledge- Schism
15: Two-Weapon Rend
18: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

A high Strength Dual wielding build, it utilizes the Freedom mantle for enhanced movement options such as +10' base move, Dimension Hop, Fly, and later teleport. This strength makes excellent use of powers like Animal Affinity and Strength of my Enemy, which tend to only be good for a few levels. You are able to get anywhere on the board and implement a Full Attack via teleporation, or Psionic Lion's charge if need be, and get more damage then the average build by dual wielding heavy blades. These bad boys do 2d8 each. Toss in Two-weapon Rend later and you have good consistent damage. If you are willing to forgo two levels, I would say pick up two levels of Exotic Weapon Master for Exotic Trip and Uncanny Blow, rounding it out with Practiced Manifester. You can make room for this by giving up EK: Schism, or getting rid of mantle trained, taking EK: Dimension Hop; freeing up room for Practiced Manifester.

Dual Wielding Dexterity Build

PW14/SM6 or Slayer 6, Human

1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency- Elven Thinblade
1: Two Weapon Fighting
1: Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
2: Weapon Finesse
3: Weapon Focus
5: Expanded Knowledge- Dimension Hop
6: Power Critical
8: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
9: Improved Buckler Defense
11: Improved Critical
12: Iron Will
14: Expanded Knowledge- Schism
15: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
18: Two-Weapon Rend

This build is a dexterity based pw who focuses on landing lots of quick hits that can explode easily into criticals. You finish up with 1d8 15-20 critical threat, with a +4 on any confirmation roll, with two weapon rend for a bit of additional damage. EK: Dimension hop helps you move around the field netting lots of Full attacks as an alternate to the Psionic Lion's route charge. Be sure to take Force Screen in the early game, and later when it's usefulness begins to wear thin, take Improved Buckler Defense for a better shield value to AC. Nothing too fancy here, but if you're willing to forgo the extra base attack and Improved Buckler Defense, you can grab Psychic Meditation and Link Power for more fun and options on the battlefield.

Xeph Dual Wielder

PW 20

1: Two-Weapon Fighting
1: Xeph Celerity
2: Weapon Finesse
3: Weapon Focus
5: Expanded Knowledge: Dimension Hop
6: Extra Burst
8: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
9: Psychic Meditation
11: Link Power
12: Improved Critical
14: Expanded Knowledge: Schism
15: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting
17: Power Critical
18: Two Weapon Rend
20: EK- Second Chance

This is a build designed to take advantage of Xeph Celerity. You start the game off with the potential to make 3 attacks a round (for 3 rounds at least). If you are lucky to start with the 20 modified Dexterity, and Off Prescience active, you can pound out 3 attacks at +4. Consider the average AC at level one is around 13-14 and you have a 50% chance to hit any average foe (approximately). Like the archery build this build just keeps grabbing whatever it can along the way to nail those extra attacks and actions, as well as Weapon Focus to help you hit. Expanded Knowledge: Dimension Hop is extraordinary in this build, allowing you to possibly make short teleports around the field and get a Full Attack; even possibly setting up Flanking and whatnot. Improved Critical and Power Critical are there to take advantage of all those attacks your getting by increasing your threat range, and helping to secure those hits. Standard recommendation of Exp K: Schism and Link Power of course for fast flying actions, and Exp K: Second Chance for another shot at just about anything. Again Two Weapon Rend for a bit of consistent extra damage.

Critical Hit

PW11/PWM8/PWM1, Maenad

1: Power Attack
1: Cleave
2: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Jhovar
3: Weapon Focus: Jhovar
5: Psychic Meditation
6: Psionic Weapon
8: Dodge
9: Psionic Dodge
11: Mobility
12: Instinctive Consummator
15: Deep Impact
18: Practiced Manifester/Greater Psionic Weapon/ or Wounding Strike.

This build starts off with an 18-20 crit range, which will have to hold you over until you get a keen weapon, extending to 15-20. At level 12 you can take PWM. The final stroke doesn't come until level 18 when you're crit range goes up to 13-20, but you get increased multiplier and all other sorts of goodies from PWM. Instinctive Consummator was chosen over Power Critical, since this is a single weapon build, and makes use of the fact that you must choose Psionic Weapon (sort of forcing you to take Psionic Meditation to use it even reasonably well). You get the benefit of this feat at level 12, and it allows you to automatically confirm a critical hit by expending your Psionic Focus. This is really handy if you land an attack with Critical Multiplier active. Deep Impact is in the build for later to get easier hits with Power attack (and hopefully a critical when possible), and finishes off with one of the suggested 18th level feats. I really like Wounding Strike, as you can choose Wounding as one of your weapons PWM abilities. This is awesome because you will deal big damage and Constitution Damage. I also suggest the Collision ability. Remember that your weapon is able to hold an extra Psionic Focus for you, so it stands to reason that you can confirm any critical threat up to twice in the same round. This could go higher as you can regain PF with a manifestation of Hustle after your attacks are over in case you land an Attack of Opportunity or something like that.

Polearms

1: Combat Reflexes
1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency- Dwarven Warpike (2d6, X3 Crit, set versus charge, Trips, slashing or piercing, 45 gold...I like to call it the swiss army pike). Make sure yours is made of Deep Crystal though!
1: Jotunbrud
2: Combat Expertise
3: Improved Trip
5: Expanded Knowledge- Dimension Hop
6: Deft Opportunist
8: Standstill
9: Psychic Meditation
11: Linked Power
12: Power Attack
14: Expanded Knowledge- Schism
15: Cleave
17: Dodge
18: Mobility
20: Sidestep

A controlling reach build, this guy gets +8 Bonus straightaway from Jotunbrud and Improved Trip, Deft Opportunist grants you a +4 on Attacks of Oppurtunity, Standstill let's you keep characters at bay that you can't trip (for some reason hehe) or that you want to keep on the ground. You get EK: Dimension hop to help you maneuver around the field if you need to. Power Attack comes in later for extra damage, and Cleave for an extra attack, Dodge and Mobility pave the way for Sidestep, and you grab EK- Schism for it's wholesome goodness and nail out Linked Power at the End for tons of fun. Also, I highly recommend using a flail as a backup weapon whenever you are using a polearm, in case anything gets into your threat radius. It trips, and disarms at a +2 bonus as well. Very versatile.

Spiked Chain

PW16/SM4, human

1: EWP- Spiked Chain
1: Combat Reflexes
1: Jotunbrud
2: Combat Expertise
3: Improved Trip
5: Expanded Knowledge- Dimension Hop
6: Deft Opportunist
8: Power Attack
9: Cleave
11: Psychic Meditation
12: Link Power
14: Expanded Knowledge- Schism
15: Iron Will
18: Standstill

A spiked chain set up with a good feat progression. Nothing fancy here, just solid field control.

PsyWarrior Grappler

Human

PW20

1: Jotunbrud (+4 grapple)
1: Improved Unarmed Strike
1: Improved Grapple (+4 Grapple)
2: Link Power (Link Expansion to Grip of Iron, as Grip of Iron cannot be manifested as a swift action via augmentation. This also let's you manifest Grip next round for "free" without provoking AoO's).
3: Metapower: Expansion to Link Power (this allows you to nail that one minute per level w/o paying extra pp's for it).
5: Psychic Meditation (You need this to make best use of of Link Power and Overchannel. If you have Vigor up, the damage won't be much of a bother).
6: Overchannel (for getting more bang for your buck of course)
8: Talented
9: Combat Manifestation (Contrary to popular opinion, you will not get as many rounds as you need to buff before attempting a grapple, so this will help you manifest while inside a grapple. You will probably be wanting to manifest powers often inside of a grapple as you progress higher in level).
11: Clever Wrestling (+2 if large, and +2 for each size Category up, as long as oppt is large size or bigger).
12: Close Quarters Fighting (things that are large tend to grapple).
14: Expanded Knowledge: Metamorphosis (firebolg firebolg)
15: Expanded Knowledge: Schism (This will enable you to manifest any buffs you need albeit at the lower manifester level. It proves itself in combat however at this level quite easily since Expansion, Grip of Iron, Bite of the Wolf, and Strength of My Enemy are low level powers).

Feats were only included up to 15 as you net the majority of pretty much everything you would want by this level. The build is pretty self-explanatory. For powers you should take Expansion, Grip of Iron, Bite of the Wolf (Vigor if you forgo one of the powers listed, or push one back to learning it at a 2nd level slot) Energy Emanation (free damage while even Attempting a grapple , Animal Affinity (for low levels), & Strength of my enemy. Psionic Freedom of Movement ensures you never get grappled (and is your bane as well). I will go out of my way here and say that (ironically), the 5th level power Psychofeedback could actually be useful here. Rage of the Remorhaz could be exceptional as well. Powers should be regulation after that. For Gear I only suggest Gloves of Titan's Grip (+8 to grapple).

Ranged Builds

1: Point Blank Shot
1: Rapid Shot
1: Precise Shot
2: Zen Archery
3: Weapon Focus
5: Psionic Meditation
6: Psionic Shot
8: Greater Psionic Shot
9: ManyShot
11: Improved Rapid Shot
12: Fell Shot
14: Expanded Knowledge: Schism
15: Improved Precise Shot
17: Improved Critical
18: Power Critical
20: Far Shot

A standard archery build utilizing Zen archery as a help tool. This helps out a lot for characters who rolled rather low stats but would still like to play the PW in some form.

Tashalatora Builds

Half GiantTashalotora of Smack

Monk2/Pw10/Warshaper1/SM6/Pw1

1: TWF Monk1: Monastic Training pw
Monk2: Combat Reflexes
3: OTWF PW1: Ex Wpn Prof- Heavy Gauntlets
PW2: Mantled Warrior- Natural Mantle

6: Tashalatora
PW5: Superior Unarmed Strike

9: Practiced Manifester
PW8: Don Mantle

12: Iron Will
WS1: Morphic Weapons

15: ITWF

PW11: Robillar's Gambit
18: GTWF

Necessary Powers

1: Expansion
1: Offensive Precognition
2: Psionic Lion's Charge
3: Vampiric X
4: Metamorphosis
5: Anticipatory Strike
6: Dispelling Buffer

I really was interested in putting together something that could make good use of the Tashalatora feat from Secrets of Sarlona. 3.0 had an interesting array of Psychic Warriors that actually were unarmed fighters. That disappeared in version 3.5 without resorting to Claws of the Beast and whatnot. This version as listed is pretty reasonable, getting

20d8+Con Mod HP
BAB:15
Fort: 15
Refl: 8
Will: 13 (11+2 Iron Will)
20th manifester level with Practiced Manifester (17th without)
6th Level powers known (1)
20th Level Monk Unarmed, Flurry, and AC bonus with a Monk's Belt (shoring up two levels).
Evasion.
Powerful Build.

This design assumes a few things: Unearthed Arcana level adjust buyout for one level, using a Monk's Belt, a Fanged Ring, Vampiric Weapon Power (liberties taken depending on GM, independent research), and *keen, Impact ?* Body Feeder, or various other healing per hit enchant/spells/powers.

You can net the same numbers with Human and Monkey Grip feat.

This is the more offensive version I had in mind, utilizing the TWF tree to net extra attacks. The reason for this is that the build implements Heavy Gauntlets, and you are unable to Flurry with them. Redundant... to a point...>8D. We'll get to that later though. This build is all about maxing out that juicy 2d10 Base Unarmed Damage you get at Monk 20th. I'll cut to the chase-

Unarmed Damage at Monk 20: 2d10
Improved Natural Attack/Fanged Ring: 4d8
Powerful Build, Gauntlets: 6d8
Heavy Gauntlets: 8d8
Polymorph Large: 12d8
Polymorph Huge: 16d8
Expansion 1: 24d8
Expansion2: 32d8
Morphic Weapons: 48d8


6d8 +Str Mod base damage in antimagic zones.


This is the base, here are the bonus points:

Mighty Wallop- Learn this Via research or get it on an Item. It's +1 Size Category on a bludgeoning weapon. 64d8
Sharptooth- standard, sorc/wiz4, 1round/lvl research or item. 96 d8
Earth Hammer- swift, cleric 5, 1 round/lvl research or item. 128d8


Figure in Haste item, and you are swinging for 128d8 + STR Mod x7 and additionals every round, or 896d8. Flurry is Possible with 64d8 x9 swings per round barring the use of the Heavy Gauntlets, or 576d8.

This doesn't count anything you get from Robillar's Gambit.

You heal, and/or gain ridiculous hp's and thp's all the time.

MK2, PW5, IS9, WS1, PW3

This nets you 16 BAB, and access to one 6th level power, as well as 20th manifesting.

1: Track
1: Dodge Monk1: Monastic Training
PW1: Tashalatora
3: Combat Expertise PW2: Natural Mantle
Monk2: Combat Reflexes
6: Improved Natural Attack
PW5: Karmic Strike
9: Superior Unarmed Strike

12: Don Mantle

15: Practiced Manifester

18: Robillar's Gambit
PW8- Greater TWF

Feat Layout here is designed to handle incoming foes, allowing you to make use of both Karmic Strike and Robillar's Gambit, as opposed to the straight away attacking method of the prior build. Just take the TWF tree to gain 128d8x8 per round, or 1024d8.

Kalishtar

MK2/PW5/IS9/WS1/PW3

1: TWF Monk1: Monastic Training
PW1: Tashalatora
3: OTWF PW2: Exotic Weapon Proficiency Heavy Gauntlets
Monk2: Combat Reflexes
6: Improved Natural Attack
PW5: Superior Unarmed Strike
9: Monkey Grip

12: Practiced Manifester

15: Expanded Knowledge- Metamorphosis

18: Improved TWF

PW8: GTWF

Finishes with 16 BAB, nets 10 Attacks per Round counting Haste.

2d10
4d8 imp nat atk
Poly Huge 8d8
Exp2 16d8
WS1 24d8
Ectoplasmic Fist Shard 32d8
Larger Sized Heavy Gauntlets 48d8, 64d8
Sharptooth item, research, 96d8
Earth Hammer, item, research, 128 d8
MIghty Wallop, item, research, 192 d8

You get 192d8x10 per round damage with this setup (1920d8). You can lose Improved Natural Attack and use a Fanged Ring to free up Room for robillar's Gambit later on. Especially if Psychic Reformation is an option, or retraining.

For you old King of Smack Fans I believe his damage caps out at 96d6, and he stops at 7 swings. He's also pretty useless in anti-magic, as most things are.

5d6 claws
6d6 Improved Natural Attack
Poly Huge 12d6
Expansion2, 24d6
Morphic Weapon 32d6

Sharptooth item 48 d6
Earth Hammer item 64 d6
Mighty Wallop item 96d6

That's 96d6 7x per/round or 672d6 per/round.


The Old Prime Minister of Smack would get

8d6 base claw after Exp 2, and Impr Nat Atk
Sharptooth12d6
Earth Hammer 16d6
Mighty Wallop 24d6

24d6 , not counting rend per swing, or 24d6 per full attack without rend (per full attack), or 24d6x4 full attacks (maximum output nova) per round or 96d6. if you give it another full attack, which is possible, you get 120d6.

I hope you enjoy the Tashalatoran God of Smack, for all unarmed fans out there. I've been dying to get my hands on a good unarmed psychic fighter in version 3.5 that wasn't claw based. This boy holds up even in antimagic, and still performs admirabley with minimum item investment.
I will be adding the rest of the builds over the next few days, as time permits. Until then, enjoy. [/spoiler]

Aliment

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2009, 11:01:24 AM »
Love the build compendium.  Makes me want to play a Psywar grappler (Ignoring Freedome of Movement, is Psychic Grappling any good?)
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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2009, 11:38:18 AM »
I feel compelled to point out that zombiegleemax is, most likely, not the original author of the PsyWar compendium. zombiegleemax is an account created by WotC to which all posts by inactive users have been attributed. Apparently, this was done to preserve said posts when the inactive users were deleted in the recent forum "update".
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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2009, 01:38:04 PM »
Bugger if I can find the original author, but instinct tells me its Wyvern*Something*. If anyone finds the name of the original author, I'd be more than happy to include it.

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2009, 02:09:22 PM »

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2009, 02:11:44 PM »
« Last Edit: September 05, 2009, 02:14:16 PM by Paradox »

Paradox

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2009, 02:26:27 PM »

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Bearucracy
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2009, 03:11:20 PM »
Bugger if I can find the original author, but instinct tells me its Wyvern*Something*. If anyone finds the name of the original author, I'd be more than happy to include it.
It's WyvernSlayer.

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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Beaurocracy
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2009, 03:09:47 PM »
can anyone access: http://community.wizards.com/forumhandler?t=988505 ?

All I get is redirected to: http://community.wizards.com/go/browse/forums (even though I am logged in)

Google doesn't have it cached.

It is Omen of Peace's magical locations thread. It is indexed in the [now defunct] handy links / Surrealdex.
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Beaurocracy
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2009, 04:30:27 PM »
I googled "wizards.com + 988505"
and got quite a few references, including the Test-dev , wizards , and gleemax locations.
But they are all [archive] material, and even no google cache.
Gone
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Re: List of things Rescued from Wiz Beaurocracy
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2009, 07:54:03 PM »
I am so bummed.  A bunch of my bookmarks are all messed up now.

 The "The 3.5 Armor and Shield Special Abilities thread" is gone. The "The 3.5 Weapon Special Abilities thread" is saved though.  I found the armor one cached, luckily.