ECL 50 character advice desired

[Kuroimaken]

Ok, stupid question here....by why isn't an Artificer Wizard being thrown around?  I mean, with the free action point a round trick, the Wand Surge feat, and a staff(s) with something like Time Stop, Energy Drain (no save), Mordenkainen's Disjunction, and some other stupid things that I'm sure other people are much better at knowing.....you can simply keep doing this indefinately and pretty much kill anything (I'm sure someone has some other spells out there that will accomplish what I am talking about).

You don't even need a high caster level when you are time stopped and freely energy draining constantly.

Probably because, in general, Time Stop is good for buffing and summoning (fairly sure Time Stop was changed in 3.5 so you can't attack inside it.)

[Tshern]

Just make sure you finish a prestige class before hitting epic. Those epic bonus feats are tasty as hell. Multispell, Automatic quicken and Improved spell capacity alone are a lot better than a vast majority of prestige classes give you as class features.

[Magrus]

Ok, clarification from the DM following, but to repeat some things above, I won't be using anything from ToB or Tome of Magic in this character, personal preference there. So no Maneuvers or bindings or what not. Onward to the BE issue.

BE has been modified for the following stats with this game, per the DM ruling.

8d8 HD, +3 LA. 9th level Wizard casting, the rest the same as written in the book. That frees up 8 levels for me. I am bothering him while he's at work, so I figure I will keep this as simple as possible. Sticking with this race, and considering the Incantrix 10/Rainbow Servant 10/Contemplative 1[Magic Domain]/Dweomerkeeper 10, we are looking at 42 levels here, overall. Unclear on the AMF issue, but that will be dealt with eventually.

Given this, I have 8 levels to play with, an arcane CL of 39, Divine 1, access to the Air, Good, Law and Magic Domains, can cast Divine Spells from my spellbook as Divine spells so I need a high Wis. I need to specialize as an Abjurer and grab Iron Will and a MM feat for Incantrix, need an Item Creation feat, MM feat (easy and necessary anyhow) for Dweomerkeeper, then the rest is up for grabs. So 3 feats and Abjurer specialist are tied up.

Stats with 40 Point Buy:
Str: 10 (8+2 Racial)
Dex: 38 (14+8 Racial+4 Manual+12 Gloves)
Con: 34 (14+4 Racial+4 Manual+12 Amulet)
Int: 66 (18+20 Racial+11 Level Increases+5 Tome+12 Headband)
Wis: 20 (16+4 Racial)
Cha: 14 (10+4 Racial)

Feats:
1: Iron Will
3: Quicken Spell
6: Craft Wondrous Item? Pre-requisites Done
9: Maximize Spell
12: Twin Spell
15: Arcane Thesis: Orb of Force
18: Craft Contingent Spell
21-30: Epic Destiny slots Required
33: Improved Spell Capacity
36: Improved Spell Capacity
39: Improved Spell Capacity
42: Multi Spell
Bonus Epic Feat: Enhance Spell
45: Multi Spell
Bonus Epic Feat: Enhance Spell (Overall +8 SL and +20 Dice for CL or +10 Dice for 1/2 CL damage progression)

Suggestions for feat slots, and what to do with my last 8 levels? Don't have room to grab 8 levels of Wyrm Wizard to demolish SR on opponents temporarily and don't need to bother with that to gain access to the divine spells I would normally get with it. I can get level 12 spells, with -2 to MM costs from PrC's, and 2 multispells here. My Int is off the Improved Spell Capacity chart at this point, I get up through 28th level spell slots.  

How about equipment? I plan on still grabbing the following unless someone can think of something that can outweigh what these give me:

Ring of Epic Wizardry 1-9: 3,765,000 gp
Ring of Universal Energy Immunity + Protection +10 + Sequestering + Rapid Healing: 6,060,000
(2,160,000 + 3,000,000 + 450,000 gp +450,000 gp= 6,060,000 gp)
Manual of Quickness in Action +4 (Used) 110,000 gp
Manual of Bodily Health+4 (Used) 110,000 gp
Tome of Clear Thought+5 (Used at 17th level) 137,500 gp

Headband of Epic Intellect: +12 (1,440,000 gp)
Gloves of Epic Dexterity: +12 (1,440,000 gp)
Amulet of Epic Health: +12 (1,440,000 gp)

Which leaves me with 8,886,000 gp leftover currently.

Alright, suggestions here folks?

Edit: DM created this PrC here as an option, as well: http://www.dndgamer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8506

[Rebel7284]

well can't you continue to take epic incantatrix or something for more epic bonus feats?  Archmage is also always an option.  Also I was under the impression that contemplative can advance the newly rainbowed wizard list.  If that's not the case, cloistered cleric is better.

[Magrus]

I could yes with epic progression. Just not sure which, and whether or not Archmage is a good idea. I'd need to spend 3 feats to gain access to Archmage. That's a hefty price IMO considering this build. If I swap Incantatrix out to be taken at the end of the progression though? I could grab epic MetaMagic Feats as the bonus MM feats right? Maybe that's a possibility?

[Tshern]

Okay, first off, Archmage does not have an epic progression. No PrC with a number of levels other than ten does.

Secondly, no, you could not. You can only take epic feats with your epic Incantatrix levels. That is to say, with Incantatrix levels you gain after your 20th HD and 10th level of Incantatrix. So a level 21 character with 11 levels of Incantatrix could take them.

[Suzerain]

You have the choice between 3 epic progressions for PrCs at this point

Incantatrix - gives you more instant metamagic and 2 epic feats

Dweomerkeeper - gives you more spells to cast spontaneously and 2 epic feats

Note that the above are really 3.0 epic progressions, though the Incantatrix progression (not the class) was reprinted unchanged for 3.5, and is relatively weak at that. You may want your DM to make a different progression.

Rainbow Servant - this one's up to your DM. But there can't be any new class features, so I'm thinking maximum feat progression (epic feats every 2 levels, starting at 12th). Work with your DM here.

[Tshern]

Definitely not every two levels. I think the Hathran and the Fighter are the only ones that get feats that often the former is a stupid mistake. No reason to give spellcasters feats that often.

[Suzerain]

Epic Eye of Horus-Re and Epic Hammer of Moradin give the same progression (Eye of Horus-Re is also full-casting). Hathran gives class features in addition.

[Anklebite]

balance wise, casters should have the slowest epic bonus feat progression.... and yet, oddly enough, the slowest one is the epic monk.

[Suzerain]

Balance-wise, I think Epic Loremaster is a good one to look at. I revert my statement above. PGtF epic progressions are totally stoopid.

edit: That means, go with Incantatrix. Or see if your DM gives you something better for Rainbow Servant.

[KellKheraptis]

At this level with 10 levels of Dweomerkeeper, never ever pay for inherent stat bonuses.  You can do it for free 4 times/day!  Ask your DM if you can use both Swiftblade, and the posted epic progression for it on the 339 epic boards.  CL 50 (with practiced spellcaster) and an absolute fuckton of standard actions = win.  Hell, throw in schism, since at this level you can either UPD it, or have a constant item of it (or some means of having it all the time...get creative).  You might also take a look at the Twice-Betrayer of Shar for inspiration on how to become unkillable...if nothing else so that way you're playing rocket tag without having to absolutely go first (think rocket tag in Doom II with God Mode enabled).

[shalandar]

Ok, I'm a bit "new" to the whole "super maximizing a character", but why bother with the Improved Spell Capacity when you can get the same "effects" from a metamagic rod....especially since you only have Quicken as a metamagic feat....

Speaking of Quicken, why not use thoes 3 "Improved Capacity" slots as Automatic Quicken Spell (epic), to make all 1-9th level spells quickened?

[KellKheraptis]

Ok, I'm a bit "new" to the whole "super maximizing a character", but why bother with the Improved Spell Capacity when you can get the same "effects" from a metamagic rod....especially since you only have Quicken as a metamagic feat....

Speaking of Quicken, why not use thoes 3 "Improved Capacity" slots as Automatic Quicken Spell (epic), to make all 1-9th level spells quickened?

Autoquicken is inefficient when a simple spell does better.  Further, taking ISC and IMM ends up not only being all around better for all metamagic, it also allows for some nifty tricks when combined with a means that lowers metamagic to lower than +1.  Hell, combine with Sanctum Spell and an Acorn of Far Travel and you can effectively drop just about every metamagic you have for free if you took IMMx5 (including Persistent Spell).  And that's an extremely unoptimized version.

[Dan2]

I understand the desire to get more views for your character, but you were right to have it in the Min-Max It! board.
Posting another elsewhere is unnecessary.

There is a bit more information here than was in the original post over there, so I'm gonna merge them.

[Magrus]

@Dan2, Sorry about that! I made a mistake posting it in the other one, haven't been here since the site opened up and missed the Min/Max segment of the forums the first time when scrolling down the list of sections. By the time I realized it, I'd revised some things on my own and decided to post something more refined. Thanks for merging them for me.

Okay, first off, Archmage does not have an epic progression. No PrC with a number of levels other than ten does.

Secondly, no, you could not. You can only take epic feats with your epic Incantatrix levels. That is to say, with Incantatrix levels you gain after your 20th HD and 10th level of Incantatrix. So a level 21 character with 11 levels of Incantatrix could take them.

I know that about Archmage and only 10 level PrC's being able to go into Epic progression, you must have misinterpreted my message to someone else above. As far as the feats, that is rather strange, if you are an Epic Character, logically any feat you gain on an Epic level would make sense to be able to an Epic feat Selection IMO. Oh well. There's plenty more MM feats I can find a use for that are non-epic than epic ones.

Speaking of Quicken, why not use thoes 3 "Improved Capacity" slots as Automatic Quicken Spell (epic), to make all 1-9th level spells quickened?

I can't Maximize and Enhance them then?

Ok, so, I can go up to 18th level Incantatrix, grab 7/day Instant MM. If I grab Enhance Spell 2 times with my bonus feat, it costs +6 SL between my free Improved MM and Cloak of Mysteries. However, I can get that done for free 7/day due to Instant MM. That's nothing to shake a stick at, changing my Orb spells from 10d6 to 30d6. Then, I can Heighten to 5th, Quicken (+2 SL), Twin (+2 SL) and Maximize (+1 SL) and maybe get a rod of Chaining to chain it? Arcane Thesis on the spell would drop this to Quicken (+1 SL), Twin (+1 SL and Maximize (1 SL), is that correct? If so, that becomes an 8th level spell, so I can chain it with a greater rod of Chaining, dealing 360 to initial target, 180 to secondary targets with successful ranged touch attacks on each. With Multispell, I can drop all charges off the rod in 1 round spending 3 8th level slots to deal 1080 Force Damage to the primary and 540 to all secondary targets. Then take a standard action to direct the folks holding my coat out of their hidey holes and a move to bow.

At this level with 10 levels of Dweomerkeeper, never ever pay for inherent stat bonuses.  You can do it for free 4 times/day!

Says where? Spell-like ability gets rid of XP. Supernatural description doesn't mention anything regarding not costing XP. 

[Endarire]

Supernatural abilities normally have no components.  XP and expensive material components are components.

[Tshern]

Magrus: You are right, I somehow misinterpreted your post.

[KellKheraptis]

Ok, next point of super-high level optimization.  It's all about actions.  For metamagic, we have 1001 ways to reduce the cost, so we need to look at the big guns, the ones that effectively give us more spells per turn.  Top of the list :

Quicken Spell : Old favorite and old standby.  We can do better with one spell, but IMO it's still handy to at least have this one.

Twin Spell : Effectively two spells for the price of one.  Even better when the base spell is metamagicked to hell and back.

Chain Spell : Effectively one spell per CL, and with no loss if it's a debuff and you've stacked DC up (as in it's the same as another wizard's unstacked DC spell, only effecting CLx more targets).

Split Ray : Twin Spell, only cheaper and for Rays.  Smexy!

DELAY SPELL : Your main means of buffage is Time Stop.  Delay Spell can delay up to 5 rounds, the same duration as a good roll (or a maximized) time stop...see where I'm going with this?  If you've gotta blast, blast right and Final Flash the whole damn planet into dust!  Imagine a super high DC based Wizard who Delays 5 disintegrates, 5 more quickened (per multispell, so incrementally increase for each feat instance), and one full instance (2+Multispells).  Le Ouch.  Substitute a force spell if you've got the Dex (and you better at this level), infinitely better, but probably won't punch a hole into the mantle like the above will.

All I have for now, will add to this as I go through my usual archmage builds.  In general, look for things that A)Make metamagic easier, B)Make more spells available per round, C)Make one spell into more than one, and D)Make everything harder to impossible to avoid.  If you had epic spellcasting, it'd be even easier IMO, since then you can be packing a mythal, which helps immensely for favorite spells and gear you'd never spend gold on, but would love to have the effect of.

[awaken DM golem]

The very old Epic board, back on the very old boards1, had a level 50 competition.
I didn't get mine in on time.
I just went Metamorphic Transfer a whole bunch of times, and the Reason Stealer in MM2.
Basically, Summon stuff in, Eat them, gain their abilities.
Their is no real cap on what you can gain.

This is my pre-CO board days.

So rilly ...
the CO crowd can get you anything, and I mean anything.
It's just a matter of what your DM nerfs.

Tsuyo had the only real co Epic thread. It's been lost, boo.
Dire Tortoise gets you the super surprise round.
So yer gonna go first, and then what ?!