Author Topic: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster  (Read 13312 times)

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Endarire

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #60 on: August 31, 2009, 03:59:35 PM »
Energy Substitution doesn't apply to sonic in 3.5.  Regardless, acid damage also negates hardness.

There's nothing I can see in the rules preventing a contingency of, "When I want to."  For example, "Teleport me 1000 feet in the air when I want."
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Speaking of which:
Don't even need TO for this.  Any decent Hood build, especially one with Celerity, one-rounds [Azathoth, the most powerful greater deity from d20 Cthulu].
Does it bug anyone else that we've reached the point where characters who can obliterate a greater deity in one round are considered "decent?"

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #61 on: August 31, 2009, 04:01:50 PM »
Have the Maximize/Empower/Chain Spell metamagic feats, apply them to greater dispel magic, suppress all of his items, then cast shatter.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 04:04:54 PM by Lycanthromancer »
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #62 on: August 31, 2009, 04:19:01 PM »
Actually, that's why I suggested Iot7V.  Those are immediate actions, so it doesn't matter who wins initiative. 
what happens if you lose init? you cast celerity ofc.
You can't take immediate actions when you're flat-footed. If your turn in the initiative hasn't came up yet, you're flat-footed. So you can't use Celerity, or the Veils.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

bearsarebrown

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #63 on: August 31, 2009, 04:44:35 PM »
Actually, that's why I suggested Iot7V.  Those are immediate actions, so it doesn't matter who wins initiative. 
what happens if you lose init? you cast celerity ofc.
You can't take immediate actions when you're flat-footed. If your turn in the initiative hasn't came up yet, you're flat-footed. So you can't use Celerity, or the Veils.

That's why you have Foresight. Or you Polymorphed into a Dire Tortoise and lol.

Or you just legit win Initiative. It's not that hard to do, you have spells and Hummingbirds and that one Sublevel to double the Hummingbird bonus and Nervskitter.


PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #64 on: August 31, 2009, 04:46:09 PM »
Actually, that's why I suggested Iot7V.  Those are immediate actions, so it doesn't matter who wins initiative.  
what happens if you lose init? you cast celerity ofc.
You can't take immediate actions when you're flat-footed. If your turn in the initiative hasn't came up yet, you're flat-footed. So you can't use Celerity, or the Veils.

That's why you have Foresight. Or you Polymorphed into a Dire Tortoise and lol.

Or you just legit win Initiative. It's not that hard to do, you have spells and Hummingbirds and that one Sublevel to double the Hummingbird bonus and Nervskitter.


We're not talking 20th level here. They're 13th. No Foresight. No Shapechange into a Dire Tortoise.

And from what someone was saying earlier, the Warblade has some kind of thing that gives him a +20 to Initiative, on top of other things he could get to boost it.

The safe bet is Contingency. Luckily it is also core, as is Contact Other Plane, for when the Warblade cries cheese about the wizard having a Contingency setup specifically for when he encounters the warblade.

I can hear it now:

Warblade PC: "But.... but... how would you know to set a Contingency specifically to go off when you see my Warblade? You've never even heard of him before."
Wizard PC: "Boccob told me."
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 04:51:33 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

bkdubs123

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #65 on: August 31, 2009, 05:39:50 PM »
@bkdubs, Oh yes you do have to say Contingency, otherwise Celerity isn't going to cut it.Or you could you know, take the awesome advice of NOT trying to move into the melee range of something that can kill you with a standard action. It's not like Wizards don't have ranged options or there are dozens of other (more useful) ideas in this thread (geas him is the best imho).

Certainly, I completely agree. But after you put up an effective Contingency (of which there are many to choose from), there are also any number of ranged effects you could take advantage of to all but end the fight immediately. I especially liked your suggestion of Fleshshiver. I forgot about that puppy.

As I said earlier though, it'd be nice to come up with a few non-Forcecage, PHB only method to kill the Warblade, though I'm not sure how easy that would be. Scrolls of higher level spells might have to be taken into account, which again might be cheese. Shrug.

bearsarebrown

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #66 on: August 31, 2009, 06:01:12 PM »
We're not talking 20th level here. They're 13th. No Foresight. No Shapechange into a Dire Tortoise.

Touche. But the +20 to initiative doesn't matter here, because he can't use it unless it's his turn! The purpose of that move it to jump you up in initiative in an ongoing battle (coincidentally, making it silly in 1v1), it can't be used on the initial roll.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #67 on: August 31, 2009, 06:04:15 PM »
We're not talking 20th level here. They're 13th. No Foresight. No Shapechange into a Dire Tortoise.

Touche. But the +20 to initiative doesn't matter here, because he can't use it unless it's his turn! The purpose of that move it to jump you up in initiative in an ongoing battle (coincidentally, making it silly in 1v1), it can't be used on the initial roll.
I wouldn't count on a DM interpreting it that way. ;) This is the perfect setup for a "stealth nerf" against casters, which seem to be quite common among groups that heavily underestimate the power of them.
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

skydragonknight

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #68 on: August 31, 2009, 06:08:14 PM »
Some of my earlier advice is universal:

Make a Generalist with a Ring of Invisibility and always reactivate it before the duration expires.

1. Make multiple Explosive Runes in a large book.

1.2. Dominate Person some poor fool commoners and give him the book.
2.3. Cast Extended Seeming every day on the poor fools to make themhim look like you.
3.4. Be invisible and off to the side while poor fools loses initiative and have a readied action once the Warblade enters melee with one of your stunt doubles to cast your kill method of choicetargeted Dispel Magic on the commoner and voluntarily fail your Dispel checks.
4.5. Profit.

All Core. All fun.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 06:12:25 PM by skydragonknight »
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

KellKheraptis

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #69 on: August 31, 2009, 06:09:34 PM »
Actually, that's why I suggested Iot7V.  Those are immediate actions, so it doesn't matter who wins initiative. 
what happens if you lose init? you cast celerity ofc.
You can't take immediate actions when you're flat-footed. If your turn in the initiative hasn't came up yet, you're flat-footed. So you can't use Celerity, or the Veils.

Note the suggestion about a Cunning item and/or the Primal series of spells to insure this unfortunate series of events will never occur.  I'd personally just fly up and go Storm on his ass.  Tornado tag ftw.
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bearsarebrown

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #70 on: August 31, 2009, 06:15:01 PM »
I wouldn't count on a DM interpreting it that way. ;) This is the perfect setup for a "stealth nerf" against casters, which seem to be quite common among groups that heavily underestimate the power of them.

If you read the description it actually explains how to use it, in order to jump up in an already existing initiative count, that doesn't take effect until next round. So even if he got a Swift Action to cast it outside of initiative, it wouldn't matter until the next turn! But if the DM wants to completely change the maneuver,  well then that'd be a house rule, and well, that throws this whole discussion out the window, won't it? 

Not to say it's a bad point though, just noting that there no sane person who could "misinterpret" it that much.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #71 on: August 31, 2009, 06:17:18 PM »
Actually, that's why I suggested Iot7V.  Those are immediate actions, so it doesn't matter who wins initiative.  
what happens if you lose init? you cast celerity ofc.
You can't take immediate actions when you're flat-footed. If your turn in the initiative hasn't came up yet, you're flat-footed. So you can't use Celerity, or the Veils.

Note the suggestion about a Cunning item and/or the Primal series of spells to insure this unfortunate series of events will never occur.  I'd personally just fly up and go Storm on his ass.  Tornado tag ftw.
I'm not familiar with the Primal series of spells. Care to elaborate? I'm always interested in ways to avoid being flat-footed, and the custom Legacy Item of Cunning is a bit too specific for me... Not everyone is going to have one of those, and they could easily declare "cheese". Also, not every DM is going to let you have one in a real game. So alternative methods are very useful.



I wouldn't count on a DM interpreting it that way. ;) This is the perfect setup for a "stealth nerf" against casters, which seem to be quite common among groups that heavily underestimate the power of them.

If you read the description it actually explains how to use it, in order to jump up in an already existing initiative count, that doesn't take effect until next round. So even if he got a Swift Action to cast it outside of initiative, it wouldn't matter until the next turn! But if the DM wants to completely change the maneuver,  well then that'd be a house rule, and well, that throws this whole discussion out the window, won't it?  

Not to say it's a bad point though, just noting that there no sane person who could "misinterpret" it that much.
Ah. I had no idea, as the contact I've had with ToB consisted of browsing through it once for 5 minutes in the bookstore. ;)
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

KellKheraptis

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #72 on: August 31, 2009, 06:26:24 PM »
4 spells, each of which provide useful bonuses on their own (one of which adds +5 init and survival!), any two in tandem give uncanny dodge, all four give improved uncanny.  One gives blindsight (or blindsense...can't recall) if you're dragonblooded, another can be cast as a swift, another as an immediate, and the last one also does something if you're dragonblooded.  But the real kicker is uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge.  They are levels 1-4 for a ranger, and like 2-6 I think for everyone else, 24 hr duration.  From either Races of the Dragon or Dragon Magic (again, can't recall, as when I need one, I need the other two, so both are always open at the same time).
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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #73 on: August 31, 2009, 07:07:11 PM »
4 spells, each of which provide useful bonuses on their own (one of which adds +5 init and survival!), any two in tandem give uncanny dodge, all four give improved uncanny.  One gives blindsight (or blindsense...can't recall) if you're dragonblooded, another can be cast as a swift, another as an immediate, and the last one also does something if you're dragonblooded.  But the real kicker is uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge.  They are levels 1-4 for a ranger, and like 2-6 I think for everyone else, 24 hr duration.  From either Races of the Dragon or Dragon Magic (again, can't recall, as when I need one, I need the other two, so both are always open at the same time).
What are the names? :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Lycanthromancer

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #74 on: August 31, 2009, 07:10:44 PM »
Here's a nice way to prep for an antimagic field. Cast wall of iron. Then fabricate it into a dome (and/or cone) that easily encompasses your space (preferably Large sized). Then cast shrink item to turn it into a tinfoil hat. Any time you get hit with an antimagic field the 'hat' turns into a source of 100% cover, which will block any source of damage for at least 1 round, in which case you can easily 'port out. It can also be used offensively! Just fly up, turn it upside down over the warblade, call the command word, and let go. Paranoia pays off.

Also, I'm sure there's a spell somewhere out there that summons and/or creates large amounts of acid. Use shrink item to turn a pool of it into a patch of cloth. 20d6 acid damage ftw.

Also also, buy a few manifestations of quintessence. Then cast delayed blast fireball. Combine. Enjoy your delayed blast firebombs.

Also also also, to ensure your safety, find a way to get the outsider type (whether through being a neraph, the Otherworldly Greyhawk regional feat, or some other means), grab Assume Supernatural Ability, and polymorph. You can now turn into a nightmare, which gains astral projection as a supernatural ability, usable at will. Store your body somewhere safe, and the only things that can kill you for more than a single round are A.) something that traps your soul, B.) a githyanki silver sword, and C.) an astral dreadnought. I doubt he'll have access to any of them. (As an added bonus, as a supernatural ability it can't be dispelled.)
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 07:14:23 PM by Lycanthromancer »
[spoiler]Masculine men like masculine things. Masculine men are masculine. Therefore, liking masculine men is masculine.

I dare anyone to find a hole in that logic.
______________________________________
[/spoiler]I'm a writer. These are my stories. Some are even SFW! (Warning: Mostly Gay.)
My awesome poster collection. (Warning, some are NSFW.)
Agita's awesome poster collection.
[spoiler]
+1 Lycanthromancer
Which book is Lycanthromancer in?
Lyca ... is in the book. Yes he is.
 :D
shit.. concerning psionics optimization, lycan IS the book
[/spoiler]

Hezor

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2009, 07:11:33 PM »
That's really not Core, but afair Items of Legacy could have Cunning (never flatfooted) ability around 13th level. Besides, metamagic options are cheaper than using metamagic rods.

 I am afb now, and that's all I could remember. :/

TT30

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #76 on: August 31, 2009, 08:02:57 PM »
uncanny dodge or imroved uncanny dodge doesn't help agaist flatfooted condition. It lets you retain your dex bonus and make flanking impossible, but not give you chance to use immediate action.

I know 5 ways to not be flatfooted->Cunning weapon (legacy item Mau-Jehe), Divine Oracle lvl10 ability, Foresight, Dire Tortoise and Psionic power Detect Hostile Intent.

Even if wizard have good chance to win iniative it is not that easy to be safe. If wizard use immediate action to Nerve skitter he have only move action, standart action and celerity action and after that Warblade will get his standart action, move action, swift action to use white raven tactics to get new turn, next move action, standart action, swift action to get fullround action with belt of battle and if wizard is dazed after celerity....

If warblade wins iniative fight start with his action+next action from white raven tactics+full round action from belt of battle enough action to do some serious damage and only defence against it is contigency (or Mau-Jehe+celerity)

I think contigency is good start. If trigger is "when I am attacked" you are screved if he uses antimagic torc... Even with somekind of dome he is still dangerous because White raven tactics works in antimagic field and gives him time to cut it open so that you are trapped inside but without total cover.

If you want cheesy but certain victory buy Mau-Jehe, ready few finger of deaths, use contigency with Teleport home, trigger "after i cast finger of Death" then when fight starts you can cast celerity because with Mau-Jehe you are not flatfooted and use celerity action to cast finger of death, he is flatfooted so diamond mind doesn't help and if it doesn's work you teleport to your home anyway and can cast your contigency again and go to try again, eventually he will fail his save, just make sure that you have some divination spells so you find him again and protect yourself against divinations and make sure your home is far enough. Rest when necessary. Requires caster level 15 to contigency so arcane thesis or redwizard levels are necessary. Good thing is that this doesn't use any exp or expensive materials...

If you must fight in some kind of arena you need another plan...
« Last Edit: August 31, 2009, 08:06:39 PM by TT30 »

KellKheraptis

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #77 on: August 31, 2009, 08:05:21 PM »
Can Detect Hostile Intent be made permanent?
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TT30

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #78 on: August 31, 2009, 08:18:58 PM »
It is not listed with Incarnate, so no. But it is 2lvl power with 10min/lvl duration so any psion can easily keep it up. So psion cohort with Detect hostile intent and Zone of Alertness can be handy. He is not flatfooted if at least one enemy is not immune to mind affecting and because of zone on alertness no one is flatfooted if someone is not. And if cohors is at least lvl5 he should know teleport and teleport and anticipatory strike to keep him safe. That cohort could replace Mau-Jehe if enemy is not immune to mind affecting...

KellKheraptis

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Re: Help: Warforged Warblade13 vs ECL 13 Caster
« Reply #79 on: August 31, 2009, 08:29:59 PM »
It is not listed with Incarnate, so no. But it is 2lvl power with 10min/lvl duration so any psion can easily keep it up. So psion cohort with Detect hostile intent and Zone of Alertness can be handy. He is not flatfooted if at least one enemy is not immune to mind affecting and because of zone on alertness no one is flatfooted if someone is not. And if cohors is at least lvl5 he should know teleport and teleport and anticipatory strike to keep him safe. That cohort could replace Mau-Jehe if enemy is not immune to mind affecting...

How about this : one level dip in Mindbender, Mindsight feat.  You will ALWAYS know where that pesky Warblade is.  And I somehow doubt he can swing an item with CL needed to not be a joke to overcome yours with something to hide his sentience (NOT thoughts, you detect anything that CAN think, not their actual thoughts).  I try to get this trick into every build I make, if nothing else because it's an awesome addition to the whole "eyes in the back of their head mages" archtype.
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