Trying to make the "Immune" build (like Paladin / Bone Knight)

[Negative Zero]

Glass Strike is from Spell Compendium. It's a Save-or-Die, basically, but it affects constructs and undead just fine.

rogue12, crippling strike and savvy rogue.

Crippling Strike deals Strength Damage, which doesn't work on Undead. If he's a Bone Knight or a real undead (I like Necropolitan more than Bone Knight), he's immune. Constructs are entirely immune. I'm not sure how things like Half-Golem work, because with no listed LA, they normally aren't available to PCs, but it specifically describes how to get the template, so I'm not sure. Where do you see those LAs listed?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Ghostghostghostghostghost.  For all your immunity needs, take three levels of ghost.  If you're level 15 or higher, you can't be defeated permanently except by four or five obscure PrCs or spells, which can be defended against.  If you take a single LA every three levels, it just costs you a pittance of experience.  
What does ghost get you
-Undead immunities
-Incorporeality (also known as immunity to all nonmagical attacks, and half of magical ones.  And Cha to AC)
-Ethereality (when mere incorporeality isn't enough)
-Your choice from several fantabulous abilities, including (if you have Libris Mortis availiable, bardic knowledge and major image at will).
-Flight
-Chicks

Make a Z down the phone and dial GH-O-S-T.  Our operators are standing by, so you can fulfill your dreams by nailing your very soul to the living fabric of reality, destroying any who get in the way of your unobtainable goal, with only your inhuman will keeping you from the eternity you deserve.

[phoenix6e]

for the paladin use the paladin of tyranni, you will have some good smite and detect of good and your save to charisma

[Anklebite]

huh, savvy rogue does less for crippling strike than I thought. what exactly does it work on?

[Azrael]

Ok, so here's what I have now, I need a bit of clarification on this.

If I pick half clay golem, ill gain all its special vulnerabilities.

Now, it states that instead of  move earth, disintegrate, and earthquake I get a different effect and take an amount of damage. I'm not too worried about the additional affect, however, since I have the regeneration/immunity to non-lethal damage will I take the damage from those effects? They state that there is no save for the damage, but if you are immune to all damage except fire and acid then I don't see why you would take the damage. You would get slowed, etc, but I'm not really worried about that too much.

Additionally, it states that instead of taking acid damage, acid heals me. Therefore, I think I can take a half dragon (any that's immune to fire), along with being a half clay golem and that should do it.

So what I have now is...

Human w/troll blooded feat (so far)
Half Dragon (red lets say) (+3 LA)
Woodling (for the immunity to polymorphing; I overlooked that before, my bad) (+3 LA)
Half Clay Golem (does this have an LA?)

11-14 levels in whatever class.

Umm, what version of glass strike are you reading...it allows save AND sr...

Ok, so far, if this build works the way I think it does...its immune to EVERYTHING except transmutation effects...isn't there a feat, or class ability, or something that grants you immunity to transmutation...I remember seeing something, somewhere in my reading adventures.

edit: ARGHH, Master of Many Forms. Their 10th level ability makes you immune to any transmutation effect unless you accept it, but you need wildshape to get this class so thats 5 levels of druid and 10 levels of this. It wont work pre-epic levels. Are there any other abilities like this that aren't so costly?

Then again, if I am immune to transmutation then I am immune to polymorph and I dont need woodling. So I have 14-17 levels to work with. Basically it all comes down to whether or not Half Golem has an LA or not, or if I can find a template/something that gives me fire immunity at the cost of only +2 LA.

[Negative Zero]

Yeah, Glass Strike has a save and SR. I ignored the SR part because it's not certain that you can even play a Half-Golem.

[SorO_Lost]

Legacy items can grant Mind Blank and Insane Defiance(elder evil feat, free if you worship an elder evil but idk if they grant spells) lets you take a single point of wisdom damage to redirect any mind affecting spell or spell-like ability any them and they have -4 to the save.

[Emy]

edit: ARGHH, Master of Many Forms. Their 10th level ability makes you immune to any transmutation effect unless you accept it, but you need wildshape to get this class so thats 5 levels of druid and 10 levels of this. It wont work pre-epic levels. Are there any other abilities like this that aren't so costly?

The infamous Divine Minion template.

Also, Abolisher can give you Wild Shape with a 1 level dip, but you need Track and Wild Empathy to qualify. See Lords of Madness for details.

[Azrael]

The infamous Divine Minion template.

Also, Abolisher can give you Wild Shape with a 1 level dip, but you need Track and Wild Empathy to qualify. See Lords of Madness for details.

Unfortunately Divine Minion is for NPCs only.

Abolisher cant even be taken until 7th level, it requires 9 ranks in knowledge nature, therefore, it actually takes more levels to do it with abolisher.

Yeah, Glass Strike has a save and SR. I ignored the SR part because it's not certain that you can even play a Half-Golem.

Why cant you play a half golem? Its a template, I mean, I'm not even worried about the LA -, I figure it must be +3, which is what it lists under CR adjustment.

Also, consider this, savage species is primarily a book to help players play monsters as races. Almost everything in the book is for that purpose (note the almost, I'm not saying everything). Therefore, its logical to assume that half-golem was intended for play. At the very least its not something like divine minion that specifically lists that its only for NPCs.



AAAAAND WE HAVE FIIIIIIRE GNNNNNOOOOOOOMMES!!!!! only +1 LA Planar Handbook.


HOOOOOO YEAH!

and the semi-final build iiiis (ill optimize it later)

Fire Gnome w/troll blooded feat
Half Clay Golem template (assumed +3 LA)

Druid 5, Master of Many Forms 10, Cleric 1 (for turning, might want to take a few divine feats).

Immune to EVERYTHING! (basically...anything that matters anyways)

I guess ill work on feats and offensive optimization later (will probably take a few of the wildshape feats, like the one that gives you wings when you spend a wild shape).

[PhaedrusXY]

Unfortunately Divine Minion is for NPCs only.

It has a LA listed. LA is for PCs only. NPCs use CR.

Abolisher cant even be taken until 7th level, it requires 9 ranks in knowledge nature, therefore, it actually takes more levels to do it with abolisher.

It still only takes a single class level investment to get Wild Shape. So you can fill those 6 levels that came before it up with something besides Druid 5/X1.

Why cant you play a half golem? Its a template, I mean, I'm not even worried about the LA -, I figure it must be +3, which is what it lists under CR adjustment.

CR and LA are entirely different, and have no real mathematical relationship to each other. If it has no LA listed, it is not considered playable as a PC.

[Nanshork]

Azrael, LA - means that PCs can't play it.

[DimitriX]

Nanshork I totally agree with you. Anyway, Vampire is a +8 (how much?) LA template, but the change in CR is only +2.

[bearsarebrown]

If you tried put an actual LA to HalfGolem you'd probably be looking at +8 or 9.

Immunity to magic is worth +3 or 4 LA by itself already, then the crazy stats and other immunities...

[Azrael]

It has a LA listed. LA is for PCs only. NPCs use CR.

Yes, I understand the difference between CR and LA im not a freaking newb (far from it), my point is (and I said it before if you were paying attention) doesnt savage species have rules for converting CR to LA. Not everything has an LA, isnt the whole point of the savage species book to do conversions and allow for monsters not normally playable to become playable? Perhaps it would have a high LA like +8 or +9 (as bear said), but it should still be convertable somehow.

Regardless, even if I cant play a half golem its only a small set back, all I have to do is find something that gives you the immunity to transmutation effects without having to sacrifice 10 levels. Then I can put those 10 levels into bone knight, or some other class that gives similar immunities.

The immunity to magic was merely a bonus, it didnt actually contribute much (if at all) to his invincibility. I mostly took the half clay golem because it was specifically immune to disintegrate, thats what its real value is. Although, even though it states that disintegrate bypasses regeneration I dont see how thats true. It says, "nondamaging spells like disintegration" yet, disintegration does damage...should this be erattaed?

It still only takes a single class level investment to get Wild Shape. So you can fill those 6 levels that came before it up with something besides Druid 5/X1.

YES, I KNOW! The point was (due to the LAs of the templates I was using) you NEEDED to have less than 5 levels before taking master of many forms. Taking 6 levels before you even get wildshape would be WORSE than going straight druid in this case because the goal was to obtain wild shape with the least amount of levels possible. If I took the abolisher it would cause the class to have at least 17 levels before adding the LAs of the templates and that would take it to epic which is what I was trying to avoid.

[PhaedrusXY]

It has a LA listed. LA is for PCs only. NPCs use CR.

Yes, I understand the difference between CR and LA im not a freaking newb (far from it), my point is (and I said it before if you were paying attention) doesnt savage species have rules for converting CR to LA. Not everything has an LA, isnt the whole point of the savage species book to do conversions and allow for monsters not normally playable to become playable? Perhaps it would have a high LA like +8 or +9 (as bear said), but it should still be convertable somehow.

It has rules for estimating LA, but those are entirely up to the DM. That's not a good method of optimizing things, as every DM is different. Adding a LA to something that doesn't have one listed is basically a house rule, even with Savage Species.

Regardless, even if I cant play a half golem its only a small set back, all I have to do is find something that gives you the immunity to transmutation effects without having to sacrifice 10 levels. Then I can put those 10 levels into bone knight, or some other class that gives similar immunities.

There is a magic item property, proof against transmutation, that goes on armor I think. I think it is from the 3.0 book Magic of Faerun. I don't know if it was updated, and I don't know what the cost was (I've just seen it mentioned on here and 339).

[Azrael]

It has rules for estimating LA, but those are entirely up to the DM. That's not a good method of optimizing things, as every DM is different. Adding a LA to something that doesn't have one listed is basically a house rule, even with Savage Species.

Yes, that I completely agree with, I just thought they would be more concrete.

Anyways magic items wont do, I need to make its immunities ex abilities. Therefore, nothing can negate them or take them away.

This really is unfamiliar territory for me. I usually only build casters and rely more on spells and magic items for my immunities.

Of course this character that I am trying to make would probably be the most boring character ever, even putting aside the fact that no DM would ever allow it. He seems to be sacrificing too much for defense, he will most likely have little offensive capability. But ill cross that bridge when/if I come to it. For now, I just want to get his defense to be absolute. At least I have 19 levels to work with now.

Also, can someone post the troll blooded feat exactly as written. I don't have the magazine so I would likea verbatum reference.

edit: wait...an armor ability you said, I thought that was an amulet? If you place it onto the BK's armor before it becomes permanently fused does it become ex? (I doubt it, but its worth a shot)

Also, it shouldnt matter if its updated or not, I mean, as long as its not updated and its not something different (if thats what you meant) then you should be able to use the 3.0 version in 3.5

[bearsarebrown]

Complete Arcane 142. It's a +5 armor enchant.

Troll-Blooded gives Regeneration 1 but fire and acid do normal damage. Requires Toughness, must be taken first level, and you must be Frost Barbarian, Ice Barbarian, Snow Barbarian, or Pale regionally.

[Azrael]

Complete Arcane 142. It's a +5 armor enchant.

Troll-Blooded gives Regeneration 1 but fire and acid do normal damage. Requires Toughness, must be taken first level, and you must be Frost Barbarian, Ice Barbarian, Snow Barbarian, or Pale regionally.

What are these barbarians? Are they actual barbarians (as in the class), barbarian variants, or just 'I am part of this particular barbarian tribe, thus, I am a barbarian?'

Also, what is a Pale?

Jesus, no wonder I never heard of troll-blooded, its so far fetched. Also, no one mentioned the requirements before...that WOULD have been helpful before hand. another REALLY important thing is that it forces you to be HUMAN, another race that gives you a feat at first level, or a class that gives (can give) you toughness as a bonus feat at first level...I mean JESUS GUYS! this all would have been helpful to mention BEFORE! I might have just not even bothered if I knew all this before-hand.

[bearsarebrown]

what, do we work for you? shut up

also... flaws!

[Azrael]

what, do we work for you? shut up

also... flaws!

Don't talk to me like that, I potentially wasted all that time because I was led to believe that it was a requirementless feat.

It gives Regeneration 1 and Light Sensitivity. TrollBlooded, that is.

and wasted time is my #1 pet peeve

Also...FLAWS ARE VARIANT!!! NOT CORE!! They come from unearthed arcana which is a book of VARIANT RULES! If you were just allowed to take anything from unearthed arcana and use it then every character would be gestalt. Wasn't it Phaedrus that just pointed out its not a good idea to optimize with something that's up to your DM?