The Duskblade's Handbook

[Estariol]

I don't see why i ever would cast a touch spell and not use my weapon to channel it. That's from lvl 3 and forward.

I was under the impression that you still get the claw attack even if you channel your spell, because even if you channeled a spell you still casted one with a casting time of 1 standard action. If i am wrong then yes, the feat is not worth it.

3) Blindsense does have it's uses. Yes. But if you already can see inv - and I'll take seeing inv over just being able to locate their square any day -it's limited when it will become usefull (depending on your Gm).

Yes i guess the usability of it depends entirely on the DM... It is true that my DMs tend to favor stealthy opponents that is why each and everyone in the party always tries to have some superior senses like blindsense, tremorsense or blindsight in order to be able to detect our opponents more easily... That is perhaps the reason i always consider the investment in skills like search, spot, listen a good thing....in our campaigns we use them a LOT! A character without at least a few ranks in them is usually doomed to an early end in his career...

5) Light id a 0 lvl spell you might not have it, but other casters have it, everburning touch is cheap. Really ligth isn't a big problem. And if you NEED light ASAP you have dancing light. 

Agreed...even without all this there is always the traditional non magic torch.

So Dragontouched + draconic knowledge +Draconic legacy + Draconic Arcane grace -is not optimized - but has both flavor and well doesn't suck. So We just need one more draconic feat..
Draconic Vigor - heal a little every time you cast an arcane spell?
Draconic Aura (if you can get it to count as a draconic feat)- there is some nice effects there.

that or some of the heritage specific draconic feats...some of them grant some nice abilities, if memory serves me right

7) Consider getting "magic of the dragon heart" on your spell list (Dragon magic) perhaps with a drake helmet. You count as having +2 dragonic feats, 1 hour/level duration, making every thing better...

True, when playing a character with draconic feats i always aim at obtaining this spell as soon as possible...

Anyway...I was wondering, is a skirmishing Duskblade build possible? How would you go about building one?

I was thinking maybe  going with the Spring Attack tree of feats, and focusing on spells that fall under the category of Blade of Blood (swift action damaging spell), but that is too feat intensive for a Duskblade... Is there any way around it?

I remember seeing some armor or weapon ability that granted you the feat Mobility...but if you had this feat from a weapon or armor ability would you still be able to qualify for feats that require this feat?

[Bigtuna]

1) skirmish - well - you could go barbarian 1 for pounce. Scout for some skirmish.
I quess it would work with channeling, but not with full arcane channeling. So you lose the best part of being a duskblade.
You can get an light armor enhancement that grants mobility - personally we play with the (house?)rule, that you can qualify for a feat/prestige class with an feat granted by an item, but loose all abilities in the chain if you take off the item/it's dispelled/antimagic field - until you gain the ability again.
You might be able to make a desent duskblade9/Scout5/swiftblade7. (Edit: Desent but in no way as effective as a duskblade 13+)

(more edit:)And this only gives you +2d6 skirmish and well its 21 lvl's only getting Bounding Assault, at lvl 21. Okay - drop swiftblade...
Maybe with some highland stalker - but then you just loose more spellcasting... Skirmish I can't make it work in a duskblade build

2) Claw - 1d6 (or is it 1d4) +str. The only bonus dam you add is arcane strike and knowledge devotion. If you have room of it in the build with all the draconic feats and knowledge devotion. It just to minor a bonus IMHO.

3) Blindsense - ah that explains it. Sure know you GM. I have one that loves Golems - and make builds to match. If he loves sneaky things it can be well woth it.

4) Draconic Vigor, Draconic Aura are both listed as "general feats" - so doesn't work by RAW - but perhaps RAI?

 

[Estariol]

4) Draconic Vigor, Draconic Aura are both listed as "general feats" - so doesn't work by RAW - but perhaps RAI?

Draconic Vigor is already considered a draconic feat (Dragon Magic pg.17) as for Draconic Aura, personally as a DM i always house rule it to be a draconic feat...it is not something gamebreaking so some dm's i know usually accept it as a Draconic feat.

1) skirmish - well - you could go barbarian 1 for pounce. Scout for some skirmish.
I quess it would work with channeling, but not with full arcane channeling. So you lose the best part of being a duskblade.
You can get an light armor enhancement that grants mobility - personally we play with the (house?)rule, that you can qualify for a feat/prestige class with an feat granted by an item, but loose all abilities in the chain if you take off the item/it's dispelled/antimagic field - until you gain the ability again.
You might be able to make a desent duskblade9/Scout5/swiftblade7. (Edit: Desent but in no way as effective as a duskblade 13+)

(more edit:)And this only gives you +2d6 skirmish and well its 21 lvl's only getting Bounding Assault, at lvl 21. Okay - drop swiftblade...
Maybe with some highland stalker - but then you just loose more spellcasting... Skirmish I can't make it work in a duskblade build

My bad I wasn't clear enough... I was referring more to the whole concept of "get-in -strike and get-out" than the actual ability, skirmish

I am aware it will not be as a good as a pure duskblade or Duskblade LV.13/Something Else X
But i am interested in giving it a try...
Here is a little feat line-up that i thought of:
Human Duskblade
(Lv1) 1. Dodge (Human Bonus)
(Lv1) 2. Mobility (Item bonus OR flaw bonus if DM doesn't accept , an item granted feat to enable you to qualify for others feats requiring the feat granted)
(Lv1) 3. Power Attack
(Lv3) 4. Spring Attack
(Lv6) 5. Elusive Target [Tactical] - Complete Warrior p. 110 personally i consider this to be an awesome feat (pity for the requirements though)
(Lv9) 6. Arcane Strike
(Lv12) 7. Bounding Assault
(Lv15) 8. Knowledge Devotion (Or Obtain Familiar if you take a second flaw, in which case you would learn Knowledge Devotion earlier in your career)
(Lv18) 9. Rapid Blitz

I was thinking of maybe multiclassing into a fighter for 2 levels for the bonus feats, but i am not so sure....The other option i guess is entering Swiftblade(in which case most of the feats in the above list would have to be rearranged) but I am not sure how i can qualify for it considering that the only way for me to fullfil the requirements for it would be to have a Drake helmet with haste in it...

What would your thoughts and suggestions be?
 

[Bigtuna]

Ah get in, strike, get out part... I have been thinking about the skirmish part - so I'll just share that...
StrongHeart Halfing
Cobra Strike Monk 1 v/ACF from Races of Wild/scout1/Duskblade 9/Swiftblade 4/Dragon Devote2/Hand of the winged master2/Duskblade +1
Feats and abilities (and items):
Monk  Dodge (monk) +1d6 Skrimish +Dragontouched (lvl 1 feat) + PA (feat hafling) (+2flaws)  20 feet Movement
Scout  +2d6 Skirmish (BAB +0)
Duskblade1 Lvl 3 Feat
Duskblade2 Combat casting
Duskblade3 Arcane Channeling
Duskblade4 Lvl 6 Feat
Duskblade5
Duskblade6
Duskblade7 Lvl 9 feat
Duskblade8
Duskblade9 (Drake Helmet: Haste) (Mobility armor)
Swiftblade1 Sping attack + lvl 12 feat
Swiftblade2
Swiftblade3
Swiftblade4  +3d6 Skirmish, Bounding Assult (lvl 15 feat) 30 feet movement
Dragon Devotee1
Dragon Devotee2 +4d6 Skirmish
Hand of the Winged Masters1 Dragon Sences + lvl 18 feat
Hand of the winged masters2 +5d6 Skirmish
Duskblade10 2/day quick cast

Its: Only BAB 16 (so no rapid blitz), lvl 12 Casting (so you don't even get lvl 4 spells or Full arcane channeling)
You have 5 feats open (7 with flaws), get +5d6 skirmish, and haste going so movement is nice.
But compare +5d6 skirmish with a vam touch w/ +8 caster lvls - thats +4d6 - I just don't see Skirmish and/or hit and run matching with Duskblade. His class abilities wants him to be in the middel of the action making full attacks.
 
Dodge, mobility and spring attack are just 2 wasted feats so you get to NOT make a fullattack. So plan B:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fly-By attack - choose something that flyes - Raptorian (RoW) - Fly-by Attack - a reach weapon - Fly down to a foe hit him as hard as you can - arcane channeling, blade of blood, spellstoring weapon, arcane strike, ect. - move away.
You save 2 useless feats, you don't get Bounding assult or Rapid Blitz - but lets face it 5 feats to get 3 attack on lvl 18 isn't really something to get excited about.

Add Hover and you don't need to fly away - you just hover next round hitting things with your reached weapon - even getting someting out of Full arcane channeling.

[Suicide]

Hi,
My Dm just told me to avoid Dimension Hop on Duskblade list and gave me the option to take one spell from any other arcane spell list of 2nd or lower level and I'm looking for something good and fitting. For now I thought about Mirror Image from PHB, Combust from SPC or Improvisation also from SPC. Improvisation looks nice because it can boost Knowledge Devotion checks quite a bit and then help me with using Power Attack(unless I'm reading it wrong...) We're at level 7 now and it's just a test with expanding the list, but are there any other good spells you know ? Especially from levels 4 and 5 ? Did anyone of you used other spells or is such a small list a balancing issue for Duskblade ?

[Estariol]

Fly-By attack - choose something that flyes - Raptorian (RoW) - Fly-by Attack - a reach weapon - Fly down to a foe hit him as hard as you can - arcane channeling, blade of blood, spellstoring weapon, arcane strike, ect. - move away.
You save 2 useless feats, you don't get Bounding assult or Rapid Blitz - but lets face it 5 feats to get 3 attack on lvl 18 isn't really something to get excited about.

Add Hover and you don't need to fly away - you just hover next round hitting things with your reached weapon - even getting someting out of Full arcane channeling.

Interesting!!! (i was away on vacation and i could not reply because i had no internet )
Fly-By attack never crossed my mind!!!it really is worth considering for the build i was aiming for... I guess the time has come for me to test that raptoran character i wanted to play a few years back...nice! Thanks for the feedback!

Hi,
My Dm just told me to avoid Dimension Hop on Duskblade list and gave me the option to take one spell from any other arcane spell list of 2nd or lower level and I'm looking for something good and fitting. For now I thought about Mirror Image from PHB, Combust from SPC or Improvisation also from SPC. Improvisation looks nice because it can boost Knowledge Devotion checks quite a bit and then help me with using Power Attack(unless I'm reading it wrong...) We're at level 7 now and it's just a test with expanding the list, but are there any other good spells you know ? Especially from levels 4 and 5 ? Did anyone of you used other spells or is such a small list a balancing issue for Duskblade ?

Hmmm dimension hop is a really nice spell especially when there is tactical play involved however if your dm told you to avoid it he must have had his reasons...there are quite a few other spells that are really good  at level 2
Wraithstrike to name one (from spell compendium)
Combust also seems like a solid choice and if you poke around you can definetely find more.... Knock can be useful if your team lacks a member capable of picking locks.


Recently i 've been working on creating three prestige classes for the duskblade (and characters who have similar channeling abilities, like the spellsword)... I intend to include them in a campaign i am currently running as a DM, and they will be included as part of a treasure hoard (an ancient tome of magic worth 30.000 GP that my players will find at the end of the dungeon they are currently in (note that my players' team consists of 2 duskblades 1 spellsword 1 cleric and a ranger/rogue)) Would it be ok to post them here (included in spoiler tags) in order to get some feedback or should i open a different thread (and maybe post a link to that thread here)?

[Bigtuna]

You could post a link - but don't put the rest into the handbook :-)

[PhaedrusXY]

Hi,
My Dm just told me to avoid Dimension Hop on Duskblade list and gave me the option to take one spell from any other arcane spell list of 2nd or lower level and I'm looking for something good and fitting. For now I thought about Mirror Image from PHB, Combust from SPC or Improvisation also from SPC. Improvisation looks nice because it can boost Knowledge Devotion checks quite a bit and then help me with using Power Attack(unless I'm reading it wrong...) We're at level 7 now and it's just a test with expanding the list, but are there any other good spells you know ? Especially from levels 4 and 5 ? Did anyone of you used other spells or is such a small list a balancing issue for Duskblade ?

Alter Self and Mirror Image are both incredibly good 2nd level spells. I have a thread in the handbooks section on Alter Self.

[ninjarabbit]

Hi,
My Dm just told me to avoid Dimension Hop on Duskblade list and gave me the option to take one spell from any other arcane spell list of 2nd or lower level and I'm looking for something good and fitting. For now I thought about Mirror Image from PHB, Combust from SPC or Improvisation also from SPC. Improvisation looks nice because it can boost Knowledge Devotion checks quite a bit and then help me with using Power Attack(unless I'm reading it wrong...) We're at level 7 now and it's just a test with expanding the list, but are there any other good spells you know ? Especially from levels 4 and 5 ? Did anyone of you used other spells or is such a small list a balancing issue for Duskblade ?

Alter self, wraithstrike, glitterdust, spectral hand, ray of stupidity, sound burst (basically a mini-Wings of Flurry), enlarge person, grease

[Jerubbaal18]

Maybe my copy of PHB 2 is in error, but I just noticed.. Duskblades don't have proficiency with Simple weapons. Probably an oversight. Also, it says they have proficiency with all armors. Does this mean by RAW they have proficiency in every exotic armor then?

[Shiki]

Maybe my copy of PHB 2 is in error, but I just noticed.. Duskblades don't have proficiency with Simple weapons. Probably an oversight. Also, it says they have proficiency with all armors. Does this mean by RAW they have proficiency in every exotic armor then?

The errata solves that simple weapons proficiency thing, but you may be right about the armors since it indeed lacks the usual "(heavy, medium, and light)" bit.

For reference:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[Jackinthegreen]

The line in the PHB2 says:

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Duskblades are proficient with all martial weapons, as well as all armors and shields (except tower shields).

The errata says nothing about the armor discrepancy, so it technically would be possible to allow exotic armors.  In all likelihood though, they probably just mean they're proficient in the standard light, medium, and heavy.

Exotic armors can be so powerful that were I DMing, I'd definitely require the proper feat to use them proficiently.

[Sinfire Titan]

Exotic armors can be so powerful that were I DMing, I'd definitely require the proper feat to use them proficiently.

...You're kidding, right? Exotic armor SUCKS. This is coming from the guy working on fixing armor in general.


It's widely agreed that the best armor is Mithral Breastplate (for frontline characters), Celestial Armor (for sneaks), or spells (for casters who actually care about AC). Exotic armor is nigh worthless, barring a maximum of two exceptions.

[Jackinthegreen]

Exotic armors can be so powerful that were I DMing, I'd definitely require the proper feat to use them proficiently.

...You're kidding, right? Exotic armor SUCKS. This is coming from the guy working on fixing armor in general.


It's widely agreed that the best armor is Mithral Breastplate (for frontline characters), Celestial Armor (for sneaks), or spells (for casters who actually care about AC). Exotic armor is nigh worthless, barring a maximum of two exceptions.

Then enlighten me on the qualities of exotic armor's crappiness, and which ones might be worthwhile.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

What does exotic armor give you besides an armor bonus to AC?

Are there any exotic armors that are better than this?

[Sinfire Titan]

What does exotic armor give you besides an armor bonus to AC?

That's pretty much the answer to Jack's question. All Exotic Armor does is provide an extra +3 or so to AC, provided you have 500gp+ or more to spare.

Seriously, even the best of Exotic Armors (discounting the above) only provides a +10 to AC, only two points higher than Plate, and it allows no Dexterity modifier to AC and costs over twice as much as the Plate. You spent a feat and 3000gp for a +2 to AC above something that you could get for less. That +2 makes no difference at all once you hit 5th level.

And then there's the problem of Armored Mage not applying to it, thus Duskblades won't wear it anyway.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

And Thaalud Stone Armor is better at AC, if for some reason you really wanted it.

[Garryl]

What does exotic armor give you besides an armor bonus to AC?

That's pretty much the answer to Jack's question. All Exotic Armor does is provide an extra +3 or so to AC, provided you have 500gp+ or more to spare.

Seriously, even the best of Exotic Armors (discounting the above) only provides a +10 to AC, only two points higher than Plate, and it allows no Dexterity modifier to AC and costs over twice as much as the Plate. You spent a feat and 3000gp for a +2 to AC above something that you could get for less. That +2 makes no difference at all once you hit 5th level.

And then there's the problem of Armored Mage not applying to it, thus Duskblades won't wear it anyway.

Even that one armor with a +10 AC bonus (Mountain Plate) is in the same book as a non-exotic armor with a +9 bonus (Heavy Plate, both on Races of Stone page 158).

[Ivory Knight]

Just noticed: Can Tumblers Brestplate(RoS) be made out of Mithral?
Maybe even Githcrafted Mithral Tumblers Breastplate?

Should be a nice, inexpensive way, to buff 2 skills with circumstance bonus(or are these available cheaper and/or higher elsewhere?)

Also there is one piece of equipment, that could profit a Duskblade, at least one that uses Sword & Board: Gauntlet Shield(exotic, RoS. Make it out of Mithral, if your DM doesn't buy you're proficient with the thing)

[Jackinthegreen]

Just noticed: Can Tumblers Brestplate(RoS) be made out of Mithral?
Maybe even Githcrafted Mithral Tumblers Breastplate?

Should be a nice, inexpensive way, to buff 2 skills with circumstance bonus(or are these available cheaper and/or higher elsewhere?)

Also there is one piece of equipment, that could profit a Duskblade, at least one that uses Sword & Board: Gauntlet Shield(exotic, RoS. Make it out of Mithral, if your DM doesn't buy you're proficient with the thing)

Yup, Tumbler's Breastplate can be mithril.

The Gauntlet Shield can also be made from mithril.  Any spellcaster wanting to use a Heavy Shield should go fir it.  It can even be made into a holy symbol.