The Duskblade's Handbook

[Sartak]

It could be a mistake, but what's the source that says you can only channel range touch spells?  As things are now the MMV is an official source saying you can channel ranged touch spells so it contradicts whatever source says you can't channel ranged touch spells, and there needs to be a way to decide which source carries more weight.  Just reading the monster manual entry, it seems like whoever wrote it thought that ranged touch spells were channelable, and an official monster manual like that has over 10 people who helped to design it, so you'd think they would have changed the text if they thought it was wrong.

[Optimator]

Naw, Hobgoblins are just that badass.

[Dictum Mortuum]

It could be a mistake, but what's the source that says you can only channel range touch spells?  As things are now the MMV is an official source saying you can channel ranged touch spells so it contradicts whatever source says you can't channel ranged touch spells, and there needs to be a way to decide which source carries more weight.  Just reading the monster manual entry, it seems like whoever wrote it thought that ranged touch spells were channelable, and an official monster manual like that has over 10 people who helped to design it, so you'd think they would have changed the text if they thought it was wrong.

They are ray spells. Not touch spells. Thus, you can't channel them.
The book is clearly wrong. He would be far better channelling ray of enfeeblement than acid splash and ray of frost if that was possible.

[Nuntius Mortis]

They are ray spells. Not touch spells. Thus, you can't channel them.
The book is clearly wrong. He would be far better channelling ray of enfeeblement than acid splash and ray of frost if that was possible.

Ray spells count for ranged attacks for feat prereqs though. So, if you could turn a ranged attack into a ranged touch attack (some maneuvers can do that) technically (and I repeat, technically) something like that could fly.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Ray spells count for ranged attacks for feat prereqs though. So, if you could turn a ranged attack into a ranged touch attack (some maneuvers can do that) technically (and I repeat, technically) something like that could fly.

Yeah, but they can be used as weapons. If you check the spell ranges, they are "Personal, Touch, Close, Medium, Long, Unlimited, Range Expressed in Feet". There is no "ranged touch attack" spell range, because they fall into close, medium, long, etc. And even then, it is possible to have rays without ranged touch attack, because in the description it says:

Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack.

Now, i think that if they wanted you to channel touch spells and rays, they'd define it as such.

[cru]

from official D&D FAQ: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv12212007.zip


No. The spell affects each target only once.

[BenTheJester]

from official D&D FAQ: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35FAQv12212007.zip
However, another Q&A makes me wonder... This kinda sucks, doesn't it?


No. The spell affects each target only once.

This is why the handbook emphasize on getting reach and other means of affecting multiple enemies.

[shalandar]

I have a question concerning runestaffs.  Here is what it says on page 224 of the MiC on runestaffs:

A runestaff allows its wielder to use her own arcane energy to generate magical effects. Typically, a runestaff has anywhere from two to five spells. By expending a prepared arcane spell or arcane spell slot, the wielder can cast a spell of the same level or lower from the runestaffs list, as long as that spell also appears on the wielder's class spell list.


It says that you only have to have 2 things..... 1) The spell on your class spell list (if I take sorcerer for 1 level, I would have this), and 2) You expend an arcane spell slot.  It doesn't say ANYTHING about those two having to be in the same class though....this feels like the "loop hole" of the feat Extra Spell.

Am I just seeing what I want to see here or have I stumbled upon something?

PS:  Yes, i realize, I still can't channel the spells from a runestaff, but that doesn't mean the spells aren't useful.....

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Heck, theoretically speaking you could UMD the thing and cast spells without slots.  Not that any GM in the world would let you...

[shalandar]

Well, I don't believe that is how it would work with UMD.  From what I am reading of UMD, you can't use it to activate staffs.  It's wands, scrolls, or wonderous items that require class abilities/stats/race/alignment.

[BowenSilverclaw]

Naw, Hobgoblins are just that badass.

*high five*

[Emy]

Heck, theoretically speaking you could UMD the thing and cast spells without slots.  Not that any GM in the world would let you...

I don't think UMD lets you emulate "expending a prepared arcane spell or arcane spell slot."

On the other hand, you should be able to use UMD to pretend to be another class, and thereby cast nice spells that aren't on the Duskblade list. (Improved invisibility as a level 2 spell, haste as a level 1 spell, bite of the were-[anything except bear]*, shivering touch)

*Bite of the weretiger requires some trickery to put in a runestaff as a level 6 spell.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Heck, theoretically speaking you could UMD the thing and cast spells without slots.  Not that any GM in the world would let you...

I don't think UMD lets you emulate "expending a prepared arcane spell or arcane spell slot."

On the other hand, you should be able to use UMD to pretend to be another class, and thereby cast nice spells that aren't on the Duskblade list. (Improved invisibility as a level 2 spell, haste as a level 1 spell, bite of the were-[anything except bear]*, shivering touch)

*Bite of the weretiger requires some trickery to put in a runestaff as a level 6 spell.

It explicitly allows you to emulate expending turn undead uses, but this is really an argument for a new thread.

[shalandar]

Well, I don't want to get into the whole "you can emulate an arcane spell using UMD".....I was more curious as to what everyone thought about the whole "Use Duskblade spells slots to fuel a runestaff with wizard spells when you have 1 level of wizard"

[skydragonknight]

Here's an idea I came across while I was looking through domains for Arcane Disciple. Centered around the Moon Blade spell in Spell Compendium.

Duskblade 20

Relevant feats:
Arcane Disciple(Moon)-the only non-compulsory feat on this list
Arcane Strike
Knowledge Devotion
Power Attack

Relevant Spells:
Moon Blade
Shocking Grasp

Tactics:
Quick Cast Moon Blade as a swift action, choosing to wield it like a two-handed sword, move to the caster who offends you as a move action, pop a 5th level spell to Arcane Strike as a free action and Arcane Channel Shocking Grasp as a Standard Action.

Attack roll: +20 BAB +Str +5(Knowledge Dev) +5(Arcane Strike) -20(Power Attack) = +(10+Str bonus) melee touch. Feel free to pop more spells to Arcane Strike to stack the attack bonus(damage bonuses won't stack). If the offensive caster is a cleric in metal armor, don't forget the attack roll bonus from shocking grasp.

Damage roll: 1d8+10 base + 5d6 electricity + 5d4(Arcane Strike) + 5(Knowledge Dev) +40(Power Attack) = 55 flat damage + 34 average damage from rolls = 89 damage on average.

Special: On the target's next turn, they must make a Concentration DC 10+damage dealt+spell level to be able to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability. Average DC is 99+Spell level.

I'm sure the spell could be further optimized, but I just threw it on a typical 20th-level Duskblade to see what the Concentration DC would be and  was rather impressed at the number.

[Optimator]

That's really cool.  One question though--can you get the extra damage from power attack? 

[skydragonknight]

Moon Blade is treated as a weapon and you have automatic proficiency with it. You can wield it like any sword you have proficiency with and gain according benefits like Weapon Focus, though the damage doesn't change. So not only can you power attack with it (since it counts as a melee weapon), but Duskblades, being proficient with all martial weapons, can choose to wield the thing like a Greatsword, meaning double the PA bonus on damage rolls, which is where a lot of the damage is coming from in my example.

[Suichimo]

I was looking for a Domain to use with Arcane Disciple and I noticed the Spell Domain.  It gives a nice little +2 to your Concentration and Spellcraft checks but the thing that stood out to me was the 3rd level spell it granted.  It gives any arcane spell up to 2nd level, Wraithstrike is a 2nd level spell for Wizards and Sorcerors.

The problem there is that Arcane Disciple says you can only cast it once per day.  Any way to increase that?  Or, since the feat says it gets added to your spell list, could you then take the spell like normal or through Extra Spell?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

The problem with the spell domain is that anyspell lets you prepare it in your domain slot - which you don't actually have.

Lots of people end up getting tripped up on that one.

Welcome aboard!

[Suichimo]