Author Topic: The basics of 4e  (Read 4394 times)

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Josh

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The basics of 4e
« on: June 02, 2008, 05:51:35 AM »
I am looking to put together a list of basic 4e stuff for min/maxing to put into a min/max episode

Real basic stuff like "look at your powers and see what stats you need to use them."

Or "make sure you have powers that are minor actions"

Real basic, real general.  People need to be eased in.  Any advice you might give a friend who is not into min/maxing. 
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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2008, 06:12:31 AM »
When using point buy, put 13 in Constitution or more if you have the points to spare.  It really is too cheap to pass up for the effect.

brislove

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2008, 06:41:30 AM »
Plan ahead for your paragon path/epic destiny. You should make sure you have the right stats for your higher level feats as well!

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #3 on: June 02, 2008, 08:33:52 AM »
Battleaxes are better than Longswords until you can consistently do 21 damage a hit.

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2008, 12:05:41 PM »
When making a character, talk to your fellow PCs and try to diversify skills as much as is possible with the flavor you want.

heffroncm

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 01:12:31 PM »
Work with your fellow players to make a balance party.  Cover all the roles.  Double up on Defender first, or a defender/leader multiclass.

Kuroimaken

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2008, 01:41:43 PM »
Synergy between different characters is key. You can't do everything by yourself anymore, so consider the effects of your party members' powers on the enemy as well.
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Banor

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2008, 01:43:31 PM »
Make sure that your party (or you) can cover the basics defenses. You don't want to get in trouble because the monster has high AC/Will and nobody can't target Reflex

tsuyoshikentsu

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2008, 04:13:54 AM »
Make sure that your two at-wills don't overlap.  And while few will directly, it's usually not that great of an idea to take Sky Flourish and Piercing Strike, for instance.
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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2008, 11:09:36 AM »
Or "make sure you have powers that are minor actions"
Unless you are a Wizard...  :ahem

This game moreso than most others relies on group tactics, so making characters together will be advantageous.
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heffroncm

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2008, 11:47:59 AM »
Make sure that your two at-wills don't overlap.  And while few will directly, it's usually not that great of an idea to take Sky Flourish and Piercing Strike, for instance.

Disagree.  One targets AC, does more damage, and can be used at range.  One targets REF, does less damage, and is melee only.  There have been a couple situations where diving into Concealment for Stealth based Sneak Attacks have been great with Sly Flourish.  I could have potentially done the same with Deft Strike, but the extra movement has not been needed in a party with a Tactical Warlord.

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2008, 02:58:04 PM »
Meh, perhaps a bad example.  But the intent remains.
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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2008, 04:00:16 PM »
When using point buy, put 13 in Constitution or more if you have the points to spare.  It really is too cheap to pass up for the effect.

Apart from starting HP and the fact 13 is cheap, is there something more that I would have missed?

brislove

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2008, 04:01:43 PM »
Wizards have to use their minor actions to sustain spells :-p. But their standard actions kick a ton of ass :).

To contribute to the thread.

Make sure you know what you are trying to do, and try to do that. this is a cardinal rule of min/maxing If you don't know what you are trying to do you end up trying to do too many things and sucking at all of them.

I don't think 13 is much better then 12 a lot of the time, it's 1 HP, and it will end with an odd number.

heffroncm

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2008, 06:30:40 PM »
When using point buy, put 13 in Constitution or more if you have the points to spare.  It really is too cheap to pass up for the effect.

Apart from starting HP and the fact 13 is cheap, is there something more that I would have missed?

Allows you to reach 16 con by level 21 with very little investment.  This grants a minor HP increase, and more importantly 2 extra Surges per day.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2008, 06:32:42 PM by heffroncm »

Shadeseraph

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2008, 06:57:43 PM »
JosephKell has put a decent summary on 4E optimization. I can say that I'm mostly with him.
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Treantmonklvl20

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2008, 10:41:11 PM »
When planning attributes - make sure to concentrate on three stats:

Either str or con
Either dex or Int
Either Wis or Cha

The rest are potential dumps depending on class abilities/feat requirements.

When choosing multiclass options - make sure to consider a class that requires similar attributes.

Look for attack powers that target different defenses.
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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2008, 04:49:41 AM »
When using point buy, put 13 in Constitution or more if you have the points to spare.  It really is too cheap to pass up for the effect.

Apart from starting HP and the fact 13 is cheap, is there something more that I would have missed?
You get another surge at 12, 13 is one point more, and while leveling up you can hit 16 easy for yet another extra surge.

Squirrelloid

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2008, 05:36:59 AM »
Battleaxes are better than Longswords until you can consistently do 21 damage a hit.

This is actually wrong.  +to hit is the hardest thing to get in the game now.  Longswords get a +3 proficiency bonus to the axe's +2.  That's actually a big deal.

More generally: +to hit is precious.  Make getting it a priority.

Starting attributes are very important.  Your primary attack attribute should be at least a 16.

Any attribute that doesn't start at 16 or higher and doesn't constantly get pumped at every opportunity will not be worth using on attack rolls - plan ahead, know which attributes you'll be using for attack rolls, and plan accordingly.  (Also, some classes feature a variety of attack powers using different attributes, plan a path that only takes powers which use one or two attributes - you will not be able to support 3 attack attributes, and two leads to heavy focus on those attributes so you may want to limit yourself to one).

Your secondary attributes may be important - know how important and invest accordingly.

Be able to target multiple defenses so you can take advantage of enemy weaknesses.  (Average defenses for monsters in the MM from high to low are fort>AC>refl>will, but weapon proficiency helps make AC more equivalent to refl and will)

« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 05:55:33 AM by Squirrelloid »
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brislove

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Re: The basics of 4e
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2008, 05:53:32 AM »
Battleaxes are better than Longswords until you can consistently do 21 damage a hit.

This is actually wrong.  +to hit is the hardest thing to get in the game now.  Longswords get a +3 proficiency bonus to the axe's +2.  That's actually a big deal.

More generally: +to hit is precious.  Make getting it a priority.

I think the point is that the 5% reduction in hits is more then made up for by the additional battleaxe damage over the course of a battle percentage wise. If you are looking at things from a damage perspective.

This logic fails to factor in the importance of hitting with powers that have secondary effects. If you had all powers that just did damage, or that had primarily irrelevant secondary effects the battle axe would be better, because it does more damage when it hits, so that makes up for it's missing 5% more often.

This is the type of thing that doesn't carry over as well to 4e from a 3.5 CO backround, there are too many things to account for (like spinning sweep knocking creatures prone, ect). In the case of a ranger I would say the battle axe is often better, as it puts out more average damage, and the secondary effects from ranger powers are usually not as important as your damage output (thus the striker role).