Author Topic: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer  (Read 6721 times)

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Gr1lledcheese

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Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« on: July 27, 2009, 07:08:19 PM »
The other day I posted looking for some help on the artificer as a buddy of mine was looking to play it. We both read the guide and got his character ready. (Thanks for those who helped as well.) Now I'm getting mine together and I'm looking for advice. We played a session with a hastily thrown together druid I made, and now Im taking the opportunity to give this build hell. We started at level 3, and the artificer was not able to craft anything with his craft reserve (Which will be given to him retroactively now that we're level 4 so he can craft like a mofo), and keeping that in mind I took mostly summoning feats. It seemed to work out pretty well, but some of my books weren't with me so I couldn't make the most out of it. Keeping meat shields between us and the enemies while the Arty and I wung ranged attacks kept us alive.

Later on I want to have a powerful contingent of minions, able to hold their own in melee or range depending on whether I summon animals or elementals. Sharing spells with my animal companion will let him stand next to me while I wildshape and lead the charge. The artificer will be using two arbalesters as turrets, firing off blasts with sculpted, sonic energy substituted wands of ice storm and fireball himself. Simultaneously keeping us buffed and alive with things like schema of haste, mass bulls strength, and mass cure moderate wounds. Rods of Quicken can make summoning on the fly easy and I think this keep us alive and a contestable force both on and off the battlefield. Here's my proposed build:

(4d6 score system) Str: 10 Dex: 10 Con: 18 Int: 12 Wis: 18 Cha: 12
Raising Wis at every level possible

Human Feat: Greenbound Summoning (applies Greenbound template to animal companions) PEoF

Level 1: Ashbound Summoning doubles duration and gives +3 luck bonus to atk rolls. ECS

Level 3: Natural Bond (increases effective animal companion level by 3 to a max of my druid level)

Level 4: Fleshraker animal companion

Level 6: Natural Spell (allows casting in wildshape form.) PHB

Level 9: Assume Supernatural ability (allows usage of one supernatural ability from a form) Savage Species
Also at level 9: Swift Concentration

Level 12: Dragon Wild Shape (Allows shifting into dragon forms) Draco

Level 15: Frozen Wildshape (Allows shifting into frozen template animals) Frost

Level 18: Initiate of Nature (Allows 2HD/level rebuking of plants and animals) PGtF

Questions: When should I replace fleshraker? A companion that eclipses it nearly completely is what I'm looking for. Keep in mind that with the Natural Bond feat he's treated as though I had him at level 1.  If Im reading Assume Supernatural Ability right, I can only choose one ability. Which one should I choose? Will Greenbound summoning do enough in the later levels to offset the decline in power from Summon Nature's ally? What magic items are vital for my artificer and I? Are any of my feats a poor choice? Im thinking of dropping Initiate of Nature, because it doesn't seem like it will be all that great. Although at that level 36 HD worth of animals or plants could really be useful to swell the ranks. What's your view on that?

I can't get this picture out of my head:

[spoiler]
The scene starts with a side profile of my druid's face. Shining black hair sways backwards as the wind blows, revealing tan skin etched with blue tribal along the strong jawline. A horn blows in the distance and with a slight cock of his head you see the glow of mysterious green eyes. The camera pans out to show him sitting in the saddle of his fleshraker both clad in dark hide armor. He points his off into the distance. With a bellowing roar the raptor like figure begins riding off into the distance. The camera follows them through tall grass and past trees until they disappear behind a hill. The camera pans up to reveal a massive army marching toward them. Though they're clearly far off, looking like lines of hundreds of black ants in the distance.

Cut to the bottom paws of the raptor smacking into the ground kicking up dust as he gallops forward. Panning up it shows his legs and long tail adorned with tribal paint. As it moves you see the druid's hand reach behind and unhitch a staff from his back. It's dark oak handle and glinting orange crystal ends shine in the glow of the sun. He takes it firmly and spins it above his head. The camera follows the staff into the air, with a slight lense flare as it twirls over head. Panning out to a frontal view of the rider and mount, the raptor's head cocks back and forth as the staff is pointed straight out. The dust from the running beast, fully visible in this frontal view, begins to swirl with a light green energy.

A small bush passes over top of the camera and is quickly crushed by the fleshraker's foot. As it passes out of sight attention is drawn again to the magic now forming into a shaped outline. Cut to a close up on the fleshraker's claw as roots and vines spurt from the ground, sending bits of dirt and pebbles scattering this way and that. The plants cover the framework creating a massive set of gray hooves that shake the camera gently as they smash into the ground running. Cut back to the frontal view as the framework on either side of the Druid becomes immersed in greenery. The forms are coming into focus. Panning from left to right: A black and orange striped tiger snarls as the magic finishes off creating the tip of it's tail, a rhinocerous lowers it's head, baring the deadly horn. The camera pans to the right of the Fleshraker as the design of a giant, round eared beast opens massive jaws. Lifting it's head, the magic finishes adding flesh to the green outline and the devastating roar of a dire bear sounds through curling lips. Paning again to the right, a dire wolf's snow white fur pokes it's way through as the glowing green dust of the magic disappears.

Cut back out to a frontal view of the horde of fierce predators sprinting forward. Vines of ivy grow rapidly from the ground, enveloping all but the fleshraker and rider. The plants set into place, acting as a second skin on the animals. Small thorns protrude all over their bodies and glowing red eyes pierce into visibility.

The camera begins panning backward rapidly and turning slightly to the right. The scene shows the top of a large hill looking down into a valley where the red flags and steel armor can be seen in the distance. Grass sways forward in the wind when suddenly there is a puff of black smoke. As the smoke clears, a figure stands tall. Wearing light chainmail, it's clear he's heavily equipped. Tons of packs hang from him, a bandolier across his chest holds dozens of wands and from a quiver on his back juts out no less than 8 staffs. In his hands he holds a small box with a circle in the center. It glows with an orange light. The top detatches, spins a second and reattatches itself in a new position. The camera pans up to a bust shot of him looking down at it with a large pride filled grin on his face. He kisses it and holds it up in the air for a last look, then stores it away in a pouch on his waist. Rising from his shoulder plates, two small boxes with thin clawlike steel legs scurry down his back, clanging and clinking with moving parts. They descend onto the grass. Lifting their sharp feet, they smash them into the dirt gaining firm grip.

From a case on his side he draws a scroll. The camera pans in a circular motion around to the front of the parchment as he unrolls it, revealing detailed blueprints of some kind. The camera cuts to a frontal view as the heavy stomping of feet becomes audible. Treading into sight is the pack of animals and it's rider, who turns his head to look at the man with the scroll and nods. The camera pans back to a back side profile where the man can be seen snearing and holding the paper unrolled in one hand. Just as the group reaches him he snaps his fingers and the white writing illuminates mysteriously. White glowing arcane letters form above the heads of the pack as the camera catches them riding over the hill. Panning back slowly the focus is directed to the two bots rooted into the ground, now twisting and turning. With a clank into place they now greatly resemble repeating crossbows. The camera turns upward as the mans hand is taking a wand from the bandolier on his chest. Swinging it into the air at the army, two burning red spheres burst from the tip. The camera cuts to a frontal view of the spheres and the two contraptions at the mans feet fire off bolts cackling with electricity into the sky. Quickly catching up with the spheres, the arrows fly past them as the man becomes out of focus on the hill above.

The camera cuts back to the rider and his beasts. The symbols above their heads are disappearing, raining sparkling ashes upon them. A side view of his bust shows him setting his staff into it's holster on his back. The spidery sounds of magic whispers from his lips and echoes into the air. Catching hold of the reigns, he leaps, standing upright in his saddle. The magic flows around him, warping his hands into massive claws covered in brown fur. The camera pans out and the fleshraker's body is changing too. His face twists and contorts into that of a fierce bear. As the camera turns slightly to the right, the army is seen, within a mere hundred feat from the pack as it descends the final hill. Small arrows fall from the sky into the lined up bunches of soldiers, piercing through eye sockets and sending shockwaves of electricity through their collapsing bodies. In the distance two small orbs fall on opposing sides sending huge mushroom clouds into the air, leaving behind only charred earth of what was once their infantry.

The camera pans directly behind the druid. The troops grow ever closer and he crouches down. With all his might he rockets himself forward and into the air, where his form shifts, splits and grows larger and larger. White fur sprouts from all around his body and by the time he reaches the peak of his jump he's fully transformed. The camera pans to the shoulder of the dire polar bear as it descends ahead of the summoned creatures and fleshraker behind him. The camera follows the right massive claw as it pierces through the armor of the first troop in the battle line. Blood spurts out into the air and flesh tears to pieces as the camera follows the paw to the ground and goes black. [/spoiler]
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 09:06:25 PM by Gr1lledcheese »

Negative Zero

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2009, 07:39:08 PM »
Are Flaws allowed? Frozen Wildshape is most useful in the mid levels, when you're using it almost exclusively to become a Cryohydra, and by level 15, the hydra forms have run out.

Braithwaite

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2009, 09:59:27 PM »
Well, it also gives armored bear form, which is nice if you want something that can speak and use tools, but that isn't very necessary if you already have draconic wildshape.

Gr1lledcheese

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2009, 10:58:24 PM »
IIRC, that feat has the prerequisite Wild Shape: Huge. Meaning I couldn't take it before 15th level anyway.

Negative Zero

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2009, 11:00:54 PM »
Ah, yeah, you're still limited by your normal size limitations. I wonder why I always forget that.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 11:03:24 PM by Negative Zero »

Gr1lledcheese

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2009, 02:15:42 AM »
Is it still worth taking at that point? I figured 12 heads using their breath weapon for 3d6 every 1-4 rounds would be pretty substantial

Salt_Crow

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2009, 04:26:34 AM »
Is it still worth taking at that point? I figured 12 heads using their breath weapon for 3d6 every 1-4 rounds would be pretty substantial

Breath weapons are quite powerful indeed. However, if your DM decides that it's powerful enough, it's about the level Energy Immunity spell becomes widely available.

Akalsaris

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2009, 08:31:52 AM »
Looks like a solid build to me =)

Feats you have:
Frozen wild shape: I'd definitely keep it.  With Enhance Wildshape (4th level spell, SpC), you gain your form's extraordinary abilities, which includes the hydra's fast healing 22.  Just watch out for the form's relatively low BAB.

Initiate of Nature: I'd bump this up sooner - turning and rebuking is better at earlier levels than at later ones, especially since animals seem to hit their peak when the dire stuff arrives at 5-9.

Feats you can probably drop:

Assume Supernatural Ability (Why: dragon wildshape gives you dragon supernatural abilities already, and you don't have aberration wildshape or anything else to get supernatural abilities, so it's only good for cryohydra and frost worm shapes)

Natural Bond (Why: it only increases pet HD up to a max of your druid levels - and even with a fleshraker I'm skeptical if its worth it)

Feats you can probably add:

Quicken Spell (Why: it's always nice to have swift action spells besides nature's favor)
Spell Focus (Conj) and Augment Summoning (If you can squeeze the feats in)
Rashemi Elemental Summoning: this is a pretty sweet capstone feat I think
Rapid spell: if you're doing a lot of summoning, this is pretty handy, especially with the totem from CC that lets you change your SNA X to SNA X+1 within the limits of your highest. 
Improved Toughness: Seriously, a d8 HP is not enough to keep my druid alive in a lot of melee situations.  It's not as flashy as some of the other feats, but it definitely has an impact on most of my fights.

Human Feat: Greenbound Summoning (applies Greenbound template to animal companions) PEoF

Level 1: Ashbound Summoning doubles duration and gives +3 luck bonus to atk rolls. ECS

Level 3: Rapid Spell or Improved Toughness

Level 4: Fleshraker animal companion

Level 6: Natural Spell (allows casting in wildshape form.) PHB

Level 9: Initiate of Nature (Allows 2HD/level rebuking of plants and animals) PGtF (or Quicken Spell)
Also at level 9: Swift Concentration

Level 12: Dragon Wild Shape (Allows shifting into dragon forms) Draco

Level 15: Frozen Wildshape (Allows shifting into frozen template animals) Frost

Level 18: Rashemi Elemental Summoning

DerWille

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2009, 01:51:42 PM »
I have to second the Augment Summoning feat. My friend recently played a Druid very similar to yours and the combination of greenbound + ashbound + augment summoning in a game I DM'd recently. It was enough to force me to use creatures that were CR 2 or 3 higher on a consistent basis when he was by himself.

 As for natural spell, surprisingly, you might be able to skip this entirely. My friend said he never felt a need to wild shape and kick ass himself. He could summon a giant croc with its +33 grapple bonus and it would do the job for him. When he didn't have the croc, he made good use of wolves, dire wolves, and dire bats. However, not taking it would put you heavily into the summoner role and you'd lose out on some good defensive forms.

« Last Edit: July 28, 2009, 02:05:00 PM by DerWille »

Gr1lledcheese

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2009, 04:20:51 PM »
Thanks for some great replies, here's what I'm thinking now:

Human Feat: Greenbound Summoning (applies Greenbound template to animal companions) PEoF

Level 1: Ashbound Summoning doubles duration and gives +3 luck bonus to atk rolls. ECS

Level 3: Natural Bond

Level 4: Fleshraker animal companion

Level 6: Natural Spell (allows casting in wildshape form.) PHB

Level 9: Rashemi Elemental Summoning
Also at level 9: Swift Concentration

Level 12: Dragon Wild Shape (Allows shifting into dragon forms) Draco

Level 15: Frozen Wildshape (Allows shifting into frozen template animals) Frost

Level 18: ?

Ok after a revision, I decided that I don't really care much about initiate of nature, so I'm bumping it off. I have next to no charisma anyway. This gives me an open level 18 feat. On Natural Bond: Keep in mind that it is just me and another caster. While my hit points are good (18 con base), I'm not of the capacity to be running into melee at level 4, trying to hit things with my 10 str. The Fleshraker is our full time tank so I figured having him as strong as possible would be good. Do you think the benefits really aren't worth the feat? By the time I have real reason to quicken spells, the Artificer can make me a rod of quicken and I can save a feat. So I think Im going for a negative on that one.

On augment summoning: 2 feats is a lot to spend for a feat starved build. I don't think it's worth it for me, unless I can take a flaw (I have to check with the DM). SF: Conjuration is a real waste, and I don't think I can get a reason to worship Malar. even if I didn't take it, I can't think of what I would take instead. By the time I have real reason to quicken spells, the Artificer can make me a rod of quicken and I can save a feat.

I'm probably wrong, but I thought there was a feat somewhere that allowed summoning of multiple creatures from a single casting. I know I've seen it in the Constructor prestige class for psions, but I thought there was a non psionic equivelant.

When should I replace the fleshraker? Do animals gain feats every 3 levels like PC's?

woodenbandman

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2009, 07:21:10 PM »
If it's not too late, I suggest that you be a half-orc druid. The substitution level in Races of Destiny will get you free +4 strength and con to your summons without the need to take Augment Summoning or Spell Focus Conjuration. Also you get the ability to use animal empathy keyed off of strength, which shoots through the roof as you turn into a bear. You basically save a feat, even if you consider that you lose a feat for being a human. You trade a use of wild shape for it, but that's no biggie, when they last so long. I suggest that you put off Natural Bond for a while, maybe till 9th level. In my experience I didn't really need it.

Consider instead of dragon wild shape (it's probably not necessary either), taking Companion Spellbound. That way you can share spells to help him while not actually in melee and getting hit.

There is an item in Complete Champion that boosts the number of monsters summoned by Summon Nature's Ally up to the next step. Seems like that might be what you want.

DerWille

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2009, 08:59:13 PM »
Ok after a revision, I decided that I don't really care much about initiate of nature, so I'm bumping it off. I have next to no charisma anyway. This gives me an open level 18 feat. On Natural Bond: Keep in mind that it is just me and another caster. While my hit points are good (18 con base), I'm not of the capacity to be running into melee at level 4, trying to hit things with my 10 str. The Fleshraker is our full time tank so I figured having him as strong as possible would be good. Do you think the benefits really aren't worth the feat? By the time I have real reason to quicken spells, the Artificer can make me a rod of quicken and I can save a feat. So I think Im going for a negative on that one.

On augment summoning: 2 feats is a lot to spend for a feat starved build. I don't think it's worth it for me, unless I can take a flaw (I have to check with the DM). SF: Conjuration is a real waste, and I don't think I can get a reason to worship Malar. even if I didn't take it, I can't think of what I would take instead. By the time I have real reason to quicken spells, the Artificer can make me a rod of quicken and I can save a feat.

I'm probably wrong, but I thought there was a feat somewhere that allowed summoning of multiple creatures from a single casting. I know I've seen it in the Constructor prestige class for psions, but I thought there was a non psionic equivelant.

When should I replace the fleshraker? Do animals gain feats every 3 levels like PC's?

 As long as you cast a summon nature's ally spell during a fight, you'll have a plenty good tank. My player soon began to realize that his greenbound summons were far superior to his animal companion in about every way conceivable. They have fast healing 3, DR 10/Slashing and Magical, 10 Resistance to Cold and Electricity, Immunity to criticals, Immunity to all mind affecting effects, immunity to poison, immunity to sleep, immunity to paralysis, immunity to polymorph, immunity to stunning, and tremor sense. And on top of all this, they can cast spells. You've got plenty good tanks.

 I hear you about Augment summoning though, it is feat intensive, but if you're going to summon alot, might as well go all out.

 You might be thinking of maximize when you use a higher summon nature's ally to summon lower level monsters.

Eldariel

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2009, 11:29:24 PM »
Fleshraker should never be switched if you're using Venomfire. It's simply the best there is. Otherwise, level 13 with the Dire Bear and level 16 with Dire Tiger and level 19 Horrid Tiger [ECS]. Getting free Multiattack for the Fleshraker doesn't hurt at all, so getting +9s is nice (on level 9 with Natural Bond).

Also, Quicken Spell needs to be in there. Level 12 the latest. It doesn't matter what you do, you're a spellcaster, you've got Quicken Spell. Doubly so if you're a Wildshaper and thus have trouble using Rods in combat. The action economy is just too huge. Push the Wildshape-feats ahead by 1 each; that'll get you room. Also consider Rapid Spell and Extend Spell. Rapid Spell could be combined with Ring of the Beast to make your summons Quickenable and Extend Spell is just all kinds of handy with buffs.


Soo, how about them flaws? Also, Strongheart Halfling might be the stronger race unless you plan on extreme skill monkery. Something to think about at any rate.

Gr1lledcheese

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2009, 01:43:13 AM »
I pretty much got a go on a flaw. -1 AC seems like a good one, or -2 to ranged attack rolls. I will likely take quicken with this.

Of the two of them, should I drop dragon wild shape or frozen wildshape? Eldariel were you going with keep natural bond? With the combination of a Fleshraker with bonus HD Venomfire and the artificer casting haste, the damage will really add up for the both of us. I mean for god's sake that's 8d6+16 claw, bite and tail slap damage, in addition to the 30d6 from Venomfire (5d6 per attack, 3 poison attacks each) for a grand total of 38d6+16 damage (244 maximum). That's pretty ridiculous. Here's where it gets me wondering though: Does the extra damage only happen if the target fails their fort save against the poison?

Here's the thing about extend: The buffs that feel like they should be extended (Bite of the werebear, for example) last too short of a duration to matter, while the buffs that are good (venomfire) have a long enough duration that it won't matter much to extend. Also extending summons is moot because I have Ashbound summoning.

I would go all out with summoning if I had more feats. As it stands though, I want my summons to be tied with wildshaping for feat distribution, with metamagic second. If quicken is taken with the flaw, I still have another feat to burn. Maybe Aberration Wild Shape for some Ten-Headed Terror abuse?

Storm elementals don't count as air elementals for the summon rashemi elemental feat right?

It is indeed to late for me to change my race.

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2009, 01:58:28 AM »
They take full acid damage regardless of the poison's effect. The acid damage goes through even if they have poison immunity.

Gr1lledcheese

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2009, 02:35:51 AM »
Beautiful.

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2009, 03:30:38 AM »
Isn't it? Not to mention that SR only applies on the Fleshraker, not the victims.

Gr1lledcheese

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2009, 03:44:58 AM »
That spell is game breaking. Almost as game breaking as the spontaneously cast meteor swarm that leaves behind an elemental.

Sometimes I wonder why the druid was even printed. They should just make a splat book of characters that break games. It could be called: How to take a dump on your DM's game direction.

...What? I would buy it...

Salt_Crow

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2009, 05:12:17 AM »
I don't think core druid was all that broken. Maybe Natural Spell needed a bit of working on, but otherwise there was not much cheese imo. Splatbooks, definitely.

btw, Dragon Wild Shape is a great feat.

Echoes

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Re: Duoing a campaign. Druid and Artificer
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2009, 07:32:00 AM »
Storm elementals don't count as air elementals for the summon rashemi elemental feat right?

The feat says "air elementals", but if you check the Monsters by Type listing in the front of the various MMs, they list each Elemental separately by subtype. You should find Storm Elementals under Elementals (Air), which seems pretty solid to me.
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