Author Topic: WLD: Most balanced campaign?  (Read 38449 times)

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Kaelik

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #40 on: July 19, 2009, 11:16:22 PM »
Sometimes, research is thinking about something for very long periods.  Wizards do this.

Also, anything 'natural' is not artificial or supernatural.  Gems are natural.  Precious metals are natural.  Dragon dung is natural.  Volcanoes and underground complexes are natural.  Elementals may be natural.

I think it's pretty fair to say Elementals just are natural in all situations. After all, one of a Druids abilities is to turn into an elemental.

Midnight_v

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #41 on: July 20, 2009, 12:22:32 PM »
Ban druids all together... not because they're overpowered, because they'd have nothing to do?  :fu
Laughable.
This dungeon is the pinacle of design by people who have a tenative understanding of the game.

Okay okay lets look at.

"Our dungeon is great! (just so long as you stick to our very specific houserules instead of the the things standard D&D consist of...)
Uhm... no...

Ban web. Entagle? Druids. This dungeon is the Most Balanced really!
The op hasn't really thought this out or he's fucking joking.   :nonono

  All these things people have posted about there NOT being time to sleep and made up restrictions about wizards not getting sleep so "no spells"; and not being able to research spell because of "no spell lab" is further bullshit.
Thats not interpretive thats just saying "Oh your class arbitrarily get it class features" i.e. bullshit.
Essentially under that concept you're saying, ban wizard too.
Taking away all of its options is the same thing really.

Also... the whole thing about "good luck finding an animal companion in this dungeon" well. In a book that espouses every creature in the MM then there'll be plenty of animals to show up. 
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PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #42 on: July 20, 2009, 12:39:54 PM »
You still don't seem to grasp how research works. You get those 4 spells per spell level, more with collegiate Wizard. It never says, "Wizards need a lab to do research!" Sorcerers do research the same way Wizards do. The only thing needed for research is some time, and over the course of a level in the WLD, you get more than enough free time.
You are right. I let everyone know that before. But isn't 2 instead of 4? And who said you will have lots of free time?
Also, you do get your sleep, and any statement that you don't is a joke. You close some doors and go to sleep. That's seriously all. You as a DM cannot send an attack every hour of every day without killing off the Fighters a long time before the Wizards.
Really? If the fighter has good tactics and AC he might never get hit most encounters, while being consistently useful. However the wizard will feel either paranoid or useless in this case. Actually I was thinking just under an hour (its each hour not including exploration time).
Once again, the spontaneous part of casting is small loss. And you still get your prepared casting, since it takes 1 hour and 1 hour only to get all your spells back...
Once again, 1 hour of prayer. That's it, That's all you need to get all your spells...
1) Artificers without casting are still good. 2) They still get casting. 3) Artificers are the best possible WLD class, because they can easily craft, and easily turn all the crappy stuff you find into good stuff. They also have 3/4 BAB Trapfinding and a great skill class. Better in combat and better out of combat than a rogue.
Um where are you going to get this hour in? I suppose you could split up from the party and hope to avoid the hourly random encounter but that sounds risky  ;)

About the artificers, do they need casting for their crafting? Also they are spontaneous so they only need 15 minutes and will still cast. But I still am interested in more details about how awesome they are in WLD. Its clear in the OP I was weakest on the Artificers, having never played one.
You can also Wildshape anything you can make a knowledge check for, which is anything with your HD.
Where are those rules again? I always forget  :facepalm


They get spells from natural learning of arcane power.
Okay I see the 2 free spells now. Like I said I don't play arcane casters.
Ropetrick doesn't matter, because we just picked an out of the way or reset trapped room that we had found through a secret door, and close all the doors. Nothing can attack without giving lots of warning, and it's not like the rules don't basically hand you a giant kitchen sack full of Wizards can prepare spells no matter how often you interrupt.
Yes you have warning. And what is that warning? An interruption :)
Your point is bullshit.
Please less snark. That is all.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 12:55:13 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

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Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
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telehax

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #43 on: July 20, 2009, 01:04:20 PM »
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About the artificers, do they need casting for their crafting? Also they are spontaneous so they only need 15 minutes and will still cast. But I still am interested in more details about how awesome they are in WLD.

They don't have spells.
They can bypass any spell requirements for crafting with a UMD check, its a class feature.

PlzBreakMyCampaign

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #44 on: July 20, 2009, 01:07:33 PM »
They don't have spells.
They can bypass any spell requirements for crafting with a UMD check, its a class feature.
Cool. I knew about that one. But why does it help especially in WLD?

Midnight, you coulda saved yourself if you hadn't pulled me into it...
Ban druids all together... not because they're overpowered, because they'd have nothing to do?  :fu
Laughable.
Ahem I never said anything about banning them. PLEASE READ THE OPENING POST BEFORE POSTING.
This dungeon is the pinacle of design by people who have a tenative understanding of the game.
Do you know them personally? I suppose not. Lets look at your 'proof'.
"Our dungeon is great! (just so long as you stick to our very specific houserules instead of the the things standard D&D consist of...)
Lets take a look at those house rules shall we? Oh thats right. You mean HOUSERULE. As in ONE. SINGULAR. NOT PLURAL.

1) No transdimensional effects. Its simple right? Otherwise you can decide to simply NOT play the WLD and Teleport away and do something else. This actually enforces you - uh I don't know playing the campaign? This also means no rope trick, no teleporting away, no going to Sigil, and no summoning.
a) Random encounters are at DM discretion. Its not a house rule. Its the campaign, not a change to game mechanics.
b) Having no full spellbook is not a house rule. This is normal.
c) WBL. Um I hope you know this isn't a house rule... otherwise, yeah...
d) Multiclass penalties. Wow, like RAW? Who would have thought?
e) Not having every PrC sans DM approval. Again you are supposed to ask. It is not gauranteed. Its not like I said no PrCs...
f) Fixing game loopholes. If you consider these "house rules", I'd love to play without them while you DM. I'll be bringing candles of invocation by the way. Or I might just straight pun-pun. You know, whatever.

Ban web. Entagle? Druids.
Show me where I said that would be the case? WLD did not say these must be enforced, they are only suggestions. It is clear in the OP I planned on evaluating Druid's performance... so would it seem like I was interested in banning them? ... sigh
This dungeon is the Most Balanced really!
So far you haven't shown warrant for your sarcasm. I honestly don't care until you said the below:
The op hasn't really thought this out or he's fucking joking.   :nonono
Either you are holding back (which means you needn't go in guns blazing unless your just a dick) or you fail. And no I wasn't fucking anything while posting this. I make no guarantees about after though  :clap

All these things people have posted about there NOT being time to sleep and made up restrictions about wizards not getting sleep so "no spells"; and not being able to research spell because of "no spell lab" is further bullshit.
Thats not interpretive thats just saying "Oh your class arbitrarily get it class features" i.e. bullshit.
What?? Please try to make sense next time. If you want to solve the hurdles be my guest. That's generally why people post to the CO.

Essentially under that concept you're saying, ban wizard too.
Taking away all of its options is the same thing really.
Essentially under that concept you... Wait what? Please listen to the discussion first.

Also... the whole thing about "good luck finding an animal companion in this dungeon" well. In a book that espouses every creature in the MM then there'll be plenty of animals to show up.
Aha! Proof that you have no idea what you are talking about on the subject. The book addresses this point.

You needn't reply  :fu
« Last Edit: July 20, 2009, 01:11:41 PM by PlzBreakMyCampaign »
[Spoiler]
Quote
An interesting read, nice to see a civil discussion
The point of Spell Resistance is to make it harder to get buffed.
And healed. Don't forget that.
Huge amounts of people are fuckwits. That doesn't mean that fuckwit is a valid lifestyle.
[/Spoiler]

Old Geezer's Law of Hobby Taste: The more objectively inconsequential a hobby is, the more disagreements within the community will be expressed in outrageously insulting, overblown, and ludicrously emotionally laden terms.

More Funny than Humble[Spoiler]
Quote from: PlzBreakMyCampaign
Your a shifter... you have all you ever need.
It blows MoMF out of the water

But if your greedy for more [Wish] for something that only effects you, like another class level or two that doesn't count against your ECL.
Quote from: hungryhungryhippo987
Yes, I'm the 3.0 "Masters of the Wild" shifter, the awesome kind. My favorite form to take is Force Dragon. Yes, I am immortal ... My character is hands down the coolest guy in the campaign and there is nothing I could possibly want.
PBMC gets a cookie for DotA r

Midnight_v

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #45 on: July 20, 2009, 03:04:36 PM »
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Midnight, you coulda saved yourself if you hadn't pulled me into it...
:rollseyes
From your post of jibberish? Yeh you're right.

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Quote from: Midnight_v on Today at 10:22:32 AM
"Our dungeon is great! (just so long as you stick to our very specific houserules instead of the the things standard D&D consist of...)
Lets take a look at those house rules shall we? Oh thats right. You mean HOUSERULE. As in ONE. SINGULAR. NOT PLURAL.

1) No transdimensional effects. Its simple right? Otherwise you can decide to simply NOT play the WLD and Teleport away and do something else. This actually enforces you - uh I don't know playing the campaign? This also means no rope trick, no teleporting away, no going to Sigil, and no summoning.
a) Random encounters are at DM discretion. Its not a house rule. Its the campaign, not a change to game mechanics.
b) Having no full spellbook is not a house rule. This is normal.
c) WBL. Um I hope you know this isn't a house rule... otherwise, yeah...
d) Multiclass penalties. Wow, like RAW? Who would have thought?
e) Not having every PrC sans DM approval. Again you are supposed to ask. It is not gauranteed. Its not like I said no PrCs...
f) Fixing game loopholes. If you consider these "house rules", I'd love to play without them while you DM. I'll be bringing candles of invocation by the way. Or I might just straight pun-pun. You know, whatever.

Yes lets. 
If you emphasis 1 house rule then add apendix A-F you may well fucking wrong... (fucking in this case being use a term to denote emphasis. You can probbably google that from a dictionary that cause you might be from a country where they don't use it that way or... well you're just an unfunny person)

I don't really have time for this, this morning but I've never liked you so fine.

 Now 1 argmuent I make is that this dungeon is NOT the "most balanced campaign". But for now thats gonna be irrelavant.
The second I'd like to state is that your personal interpretations are piss-poor bordering on willful ignorance. Maybe because you genuinely don't understand, maybe cause you're just an asshat who for some reason or another doesn't like optimization.  I've seen some of you're previous threads. I'm leaning towards the latter.
However minus the insults... it's like this:

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Lets say you have a strict DM. He doesn't have magic-marts and you enter WLD at level 1. He uses the no-summoning option, the no full spellbook option, and the you will barely ever sleep seriousness. He keeps to WBL, enforces multiclass penalties, and already fixed the broken aspects with a smart list. He isn't assured to give you every PrC you want but he will at least allow all 3.5 sources.

I got thinking at how this campaign would really nerf the tier 1's. Specifically:
Now regardless of thier status as "options" when you actually implement them they become "houserules"
I'm still wondering where you get the "You don't get to sleep  serirousness from"
  A "smart list of spells" now in the book they mention how devastating the low level spells "web & entagle" iirc can be in a dungeon so basically in addition to banning summoning there's also the idea in there to ban battlefield control.


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Wizards

pretty much never get any spells above level 1, nor could they get the uninterrupted sleep/trance required for spellcasting. They aren't gauranteed an upgraded familiar and the feats only help for another class.

This is the stupidest interpretation ever. "they never get spells above level 1" and its been showed many times in this thread why thats wrong so there's no need to harp on it. really except to say. You suck. You suck for even suggesting an inversion of the rules.
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Druid

The you-can't-summon effect means your spontaneous casting (which you won't ever have the peace and quiet for) is useless. This also means you can't summon creatures in order to be familiar enough with them for wildshaping. Looks like you will need to be the sub-par shapeshifting variant . Your other class features aren't that great for dungeon crawling. Woodland stride! ... oh wait.
True the non spontaneous summonthing this is a loss. Along with banning entangle. . . but thats two bans. So basically you're all gleeful cause they want to "ban druid" that not a huge leap and its pretty lame. Thing is even with a rudimentary knowledege check + an aid another from a wizard or whoever has knowledge nature pretty much gives you knowledge to wildshape into it. So no.. you don't really have to be stuck using "sub-par" shapeshift. Even at that there are some people who can smash face with it.

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Clerics

Your spells still need meditation. Turn undead and domain abilities will still work but alone they make you down a few tiers.
You're spells need meditation... which you shuold have NO problem getting. Unless of course somehow... you as a dm have ACTUALLY NOT ALLOWED YOUR PLAYERS TO SLEEP! Where are you getting that?


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Archivists

I can research any spell! Oh nevermind. I'll be over here now.
About this class... they still get 2 free spells every level up. I'm not a fan of them personally but even at that you may end up having to learn spells scrolled from your fellows in the party. Meh. The archivist has always been an odd class, stuck dealing with issues.

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Erudites

No sleep for PP and not much research, sigh.
So basically you need to be an elan who need to "Trance 4 hours" but rest for 8.
There are a thousand + rooms in that dungeon that the party could set up for and use for rest purposes.*

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Artificers

You also need peace and quiet.* But you can still craft... kinda. Any help with them would be appreciated CO, since I never bothered to learn their exceptions. Unlike the rest this class is useful after level 1 - all the way up to 5 without casting.
*Or crafting purposes. see above.


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Tier 3 is where the options really start to bloom. Let me know, CO, if you want my dip-depth and usefulness list.

I have been thinking recently about how to crack it and my results have been rather specific. As you can see Druid20 doesn't cut it
and this is what really irks me; its like you think you're being witty but you're just lying. Maybe seriously to you're self but druid 20 would work "fine".
So I need to make a knowledge check to wildshape.
So what? A druid can only wildshape up to his hit dice. The knowledge check is His hitdice +3 typically, thusly the druid statistically would know the animals he can change into.

Also... and you didn't say this(as I mentioned all of my issuses weren't with you but some with the WLD) the idea that "druids" have nothing to do. (go back and read the thread, someone posted an excerpt).
"Good luck finding an animal companion" thats just :banghead stupid. Stupid for a book that has "every creature in the srd" to state that. Clearly there are animals there... even if they're just solo's or marching 2 x2 like noahs arc or something. Its really just dickish " intent lawyering" The animal companion that shows up to serve you isn't summoned in via teleport iirc so... meh.
If nothing else you can Shift into your lion or tiger or hell maybe an elephant but to state
"Druid 20 doesn't cut it" is kinda silly. Unless of course you go off the "just ban it" houserule.
In which case what they're saying is. . .
Our dungeon doesn't work; unless you use our houserules.
1. No summoning (and I'd be willing to accept that based on the story, really)
2. Ban Battlefield control spells (okay so... we're just slowly limiting the options to spellcasters which basically bumps us down to "The Master of the save or die" and ... thats whats left illusion/necromacy/enchantment. Yeah. Oh wait evocation.
3. Ban the druid... (cause seriously.. what CAN a druid do in a dungeon ..containing every animal in the srd?)
..............................
but its the suggestion/interpretations that you make are just utterly ridiculous frankly. 
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bayar

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #46 on: July 20, 2009, 03:16:04 PM »
Personally, I love the WLD. My only regret is that my only gaming group in a 200 mile radius a bullheaded deoptimisers that refuse to play it.

And the only thing in that book that makes me rage is the fact that they say you should disallow acces to Web because they did the same thing. Then, the first spellbook you find contains Web. W T F ?

Midnight_v

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #47 on: July 20, 2009, 06:03:51 PM »
Personally, I love the WLD. My only regret is that my only gaming group in a 200 mile radius a bullheaded deoptimisers that refuse to play it.

And the only thing in that book that makes me rage is the fact that they say you should disallow acces to Web because they did the same thing. Then, the first spellbook you find contains Web. W T F ?
Hmm... that is odd.
Ahh well some people love it I guess. Nothing WRONG if you like those restrictions. I just don't think it makes for the most balanced dungeon ever. I'll leave you to it though. good day.
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Alastar

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #48 on: July 20, 2009, 07:06:56 PM »
I'm gonna open this by saying something:  I love the world's largest dungeon, it's a really nice place.  If you can adapt it.

In my 4 man group that currently run the WLD, we have:

1 gnome tinker/artificier (tinker from the warcraft campaign setting)
1 human gish (crusader 1/Focused Conjurer 5/Jade phoenix mage 2/Abjurant Champion 2)
1 shadow template ninja (2 monk/3 unnarmed swordsage/5 ToB Ninja class, can't recall name, don'T feel like looking it up)
1 random character.  The 3 previously stated are always there, the fourth one is one amongs a list of three that can make it this game, we have a ranger/scout swift hunter, a dungeoncrashing goliath, and a factotum/warblade fire hobgoblin samurai.

Now, here are my houserules, everyone likes them so far:  While exp is frozen if you hang around the area too much, the extra exp does not get lost, it is stashed on the side and you can use it for numerous reasons:

-LA buyback
-Crafting exp
- Feats, one at 5000 xp, one at 10 000 xp, one at 15 000 exp ( you loose the exp everytime you choose this option, so while the first is ok, the second is hard as hell to get).


every monster drops a small amount of ''essence'' essence comes in 8 types, earth fire water air dark light spirit power.  These essences are essencialy (HAHAHHA GET IT) used to craft magic items.  Ex: a gauntlet of ogre strenght uses power essence, a scroll of enervation uses dark essence.  The kind of monster determines the essence type.  ex: driders drop dark essence and power essence.  The calculation is also simple.  Cr 1-5: 50 gp per cr, 100 for bosses 6-10 100 gp per CR, 200 for bosses, and so on.

This helps make sure the party has the items he wants while staying in the dungeon.  Also, i waved the summoning rule and the teleportation rule, under certain conditions: you can teleport, most of the time, only on sight, meaning, you can't teleport to another area you can't see, to another side of a wall, or outside.  And summons can come forth, but are otherwise trapped here, because they are not sustained by the magic anymore thought, they die a gruesome and painful death.  After a couple of times, this becomes an evil act, especially if you summon celestial creatures.  You gain no exp for those.

Is this totally balanced?  Not at all, it may give the players a lot of advantages, that were not intended in the original WLD.  but in the end, the whole point of D&d is to have fun.  You don't ''win'' as the DM, you win by making sure the player's have fun.

The things that get on my nerve in WLD are the incomplete sentences and things.  Like in one instance, tehre is a bowl containing a fighting drider who looks like a balor and on the bowl are celestial runes:  it says taht with a dc 30 decipher script check, you can decipher them, but nowhere does it say what the runes say!!!! MY PLAYERS DECIPHERED IT, WHAT DOES IT SAY.

Also, the maps are REALLY hard to understand sometimes, as there is no sort of topography of any kind in them.

my 2 cents.

Midnight_v

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #49 on: July 20, 2009, 07:27:24 PM »
 Alstar. You are a really good dm.  I mean not just from that but from playing in your pbp; you make it a really enjoyable experience.
 Anecdotally, after playing a bi weekly game of the WLD What I disliked about it the most was all the empty rooms. Maybe we were just not finding the stuff we were supposed to find or narrowly missing encounters but ... It just seemed like there were long period of "We walk into the room. Get the room description, search, move to the next room. Repeat. Now there were actually many plot lines but the crawling was just kind of desolate at times.
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Alastar

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #50 on: July 20, 2009, 07:44:44 PM »
Oh, i totally agree, there are some really crappy times in there, with lotsa empty rooms, but you just read the room description fast, make search checks, and then move on, to the tasty rooms.  I also supplement those rooms with humoristic things, like,  ''did you know'' facts about the dungeon, and jokes about how the empty room is ''oddly inspiring.  Or tehre are 40 empty rooms description at the begining, i pick one, and roll a random encounter in it.

thanks for the praise ;)

Kaelik

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #51 on: July 20, 2009, 10:52:30 PM »
Personally, I love the WLD. My only regret is that my only gaming group in a 200 mile radius a bullheaded deoptimisers that refuse to play it.

And the only thing in that book that makes me rage is the fact that they say you should disallow acces to Web because they did the same thing. Then, the first spellbook you find contains Web. W T F ?

Wait, so that wasn't my DM changing the spellbook to add the one of the supposedly banned spells, it was so much worse. They actually just hand the very first NPC a banned spell! That is hilarious.

You are right. I let everyone know that before. But isn't 2 instead of 4? And who said you will have lots of free time?

You make free time. And I was numbering per spell level. I usually refer to Wizard spells known that way.

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Really? If the fighter has good tactics and AC he might never get hit most encounters, while being consistently useful. However the wizard will feel either paranoid or useless in this case. Actually I was thinking just under an hour (its each hour not including exploration time).

Okay 1) You seriously think you can have 25+ encounters a day without a dead fighter? Really? Is that a joke? Do you not realize that at that rate even with half XP gain you would still end up leveling about once every day and a half. So much for two years. You'd be level 20 in less than 40 days.

2) No matter how good your hypothetical Fighter tactics, you will get raped even trying that.

Let me list the enemies we fought at level 1: Dark Mantle, Swarm, Two DarkMantles, Swarm, Swarm, Ogre, DarkMantle, Room full of Kobolds (including Wizard) and a Howler. (Leveled, game died soon after)

Now for the AB of those monsters, assuming MM standard:
+5
Automatic 1d6 damage
+8
+10
Reflex save for half on 2d6.

Yeah, my guess is your leet fighter of high AC just dies from repeated swarms that always get to go first and have some kinda DR, because I'm pretty sure all of that was fiendish, and had DR 5 magic at least.

So yeah, no, your fighter dies without spells. Your fighter dies of being a fighter as soon as he runs into the Ogre you fight at level 1, if not long before to Darkmantles and swarms.

3) How many of those random encounters have the special ability "open or break barred Stone door that is also secret." Because we seriously found a room with two secret stone doors that we pushed closed and rested in the perfectly safe room. Additionally, I'm pretty sure your players will just laugh at you  if you even try 25 encounters a day.

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Um where are you going to get this hour in? I suppose you could split up from the party and hope to avoid the hourly random encounter but that sounds risky  ;)

You get it behind closed doors. That don't have random people barging in every five minutes.

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About the artificers, do they need casting for their crafting? Also they are spontaneous so they only need 15 minutes and will still cast. But I still am interested in more details about how awesome they are in WLD. Its clear in the OP I was weakest on the Artificers, having never played one.

Artificers turn that 15gp ring and that +2 sword that isn't as good as the +3 sword you have now into anything in any book you have access to. You can seriously just equip your party in Belts of Battle and full WBL of good stuff with an artificer. They also have 3/4ths BAB, Trapfinding, good skills, and they do get their infusion casting, which is good, but not Wizard or Cleric or Druid good.

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Where are those rules again? I always forget

They are in the Druid and Knowledge skill sections of the PHB. And a dictionary if your DM tries really hard to be an ass. Like you apparently do.

2.    well-acquainted; thoroughly conversant: to be familiar with a subject.

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Yes you have warning. And what is that warning? An interruption :)

No, it's really not. The Wizard does not get interrupted by "thumb." And if he has no spells, why the fuck would he even bother to get up. Either the Druid (cause you want a good fighter not an actual fighter) takes it at the door and he doesn't get involved, or he is dead. So either the Fighter dies, or the Wizard gets spells. Assuming this magical creature can even get open a Stone door.

Solo

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #52 on: July 21, 2009, 03:03:12 AM »
I'd love to see how a fighter plays without getting hit for significant damage through the standard 4 encounters per day.

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Kaelik

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2009, 03:11:54 AM »
I'd love to see how a fighter plays without getting hit for significant damage through the standard 4 encounters per day.

I see you aren't paying attention solo. It's how the Fighter plays without getting hit from level 1-20, because Clerics never get even a single hour to prepare spells, and so obviously fighters never get rest either to replenish HP. And no one cast cast cures, that would be crazy, someone would have to get spells for that.

JaronK

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #54 on: July 21, 2009, 03:55:00 AM »
In all fairness, using the Combat Vigor could keep you going pretty successfully.  You can't take the feat until level 9, but once you get it (along with Combat Focus and one other feat from that chain, probably Combat Stability) you would have Fast Healing 4 for 13 rounds after the start of every combat encounter.  52 hitpoints per combat is enough to keep you going if you're also a charger who rapidly takes down enemies.

I mean, if you can at least dip Barbarian for Lion Totem, a Barbarian 1/Fighter 8 could reasonably keep going all day long by simply killing enemies very fast, before they can do much damage, and healing up a good bit in between. 

Or you could get Martial Study and Martial Stance for Martial Spirit, and punch your allies out of combat for downtime healing (Martial Spirit, unlike the healing strikes, only requires an opponent, not someone actually trying to kill you... so you can spar for healing).

I'm not saying it's a great plan, but it could be done.

JaronK

Kaelik

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #55 on: July 21, 2009, 04:49:23 AM »
Oh absolutely you could arrange various ways to heal yourself at higher levels, or by bringing in things like Dread Necro or Crusader. Of course, that' a lot less impressive then the leveling schedule, which apparently involves 24 fights a day minimum. Which of course, works out to ~1.8 levels per day. So I think going from level 1 to level 20 in 12 days puts most of his other claims, like, the dungeon lasting 2 years, to shame.

JaronK

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #56 on: July 21, 2009, 05:13:54 AM »
Well yeah, I wasn't defending that.  I just like build challenges, especially ones involving weaker classes, so the idea of figuring out a Fighter that could keep going without support from other classes indefinitely sounded fun.  It is doable, with some effort.

JaronK

Kaelik

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #57 on: July 21, 2009, 05:21:42 AM »
Well yeah, I wasn't defending that.  I just like build challenges, especially ones involving weaker classes, so the idea of figuring out a Fighter that could keep going without support from other classes indefinitely sounded fun.  It is doable, with some effort.

JaronK

Well, you really didn't because you have to fight through 9 levels of no healing and sleeping. If you dip one level in Crusader, well, you are really just showing how a Crusader and some friends and a DM who doesn't get pissy can do.

If he didn't have such a fighter bias, the same guy who's telling us that druids can never spend an hour communing with nature would be jumping through hoops making up bullshit houserule versions of why crusaders can't punch each other non lethally.

BowenSilverclaw

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #58 on: July 21, 2009, 07:01:20 AM »
If he didn't have such a fighter bias

Now it's starting to sound like we're dealing with Aelryinth here...:twitch
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: WLD: Most balanced campaign?
« Reply #59 on: July 21, 2009, 07:02:42 AM »
note that the WLD has a fixed levelling rate- they mention that if you don't follow it you'd be level 8, when if you followed it you'd be level two.
Thus, xp components are, practically speaking, free
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