CO Challenge : The Tier 1 of Tier 1 Wizards..."The Ultimate Magus"

[Sinfire Titan]

Nope. Any True Dragon can be a Loredrake, even if they can't cast spells yet. It's a Sovereign Archetype, so the only real requirement is that they 'Follow the Thir faith' and try to embody either Aureon or The Shadow.

It does require the ability cast Arcane Spells at a certain level (caster or otherwise I don't remember).

[spoiler]SOVEREIGN ARCHETYPES
(snip) All true dragons have the potential to use arcane
magic. Most have the ability to select spells from the
cleric spell list and certain domains. This variant rule
instead provides a dragon with a special ability based on
the Sovereign archetype it chooses to follow. This special
ability replaces the optional spell selection abilities a
dragon normally possesses; as such, a silver dragon that
adopts the child of Eberron archetype can no longer
cast cleric spells or those from the Air, Good, Law, and
Sun domains. Those wholly unable to cast cleric spells
(black, green, and white) lose nothing when they adopt a
Sovereign archetype. (snip)


LOREDRAKESovereigns: Aureon, The Shadow.
Benefit:

Once the dragon has the ability to cast spells, his effective sorcerer level is increased by two.

From the same rules quote. Otherwise you just get Spellcraft as a class skill. So yes, you do need some spellcasting to get a good benefit from this ability.

[KellKheraptis]

Ok, so for dirty arcane tricks we have :

-Dark chaos shuffle (in the 25th level game, these spells will be vanguard, along with #2)
-Heroism + Unfettered Heroism
-Arcane Spellsurge + the fusion twins, combined with Triadspell for some REAL novas
-Everybody's favorite one-two combo of Polymorph school + fucking with time (TS/Celerity, etc)

There are infinitely more, but the main ones I'm after are the really nasty ones.  AftS with it's other crap to make a nuke go here too, as I want it within this little gecko's capability

And to end Loredrake debating, he gets a base sorc level from the Greater Rite of Passage and being a White Dragonspawn (which I guess could be traded up for a different dragon, given LA buyoff).

[The_Mad_Linguist]

It just says the ability to cast spells, not neccessarily sorcerer spells, so it kicks in at wizard1.

[Dictum Mortuum]

Don't forget of manifesting psychic reformation on the familiar

[altpersona]

two things, one nearly on topic , the other... not so much..

how does 'pre epic' apply to a cheesewroght kobold? as they are dragons , they are epic...

that was the nearly on topic part..

the less on topic is..

IF, cheesewrought quals for UM w/ out class's.. and you do UM 10, does that qual you for the epic spellcasting feat

"Improved Spell Capacity [Epic]
Prerequisite Ability to cast spells of the normal maximum spell level in at least one spellcasting class. 

Benefit When you select this feat, you gain one spell slot per day of any level up to one level higher than the highest-level spell you can already cast in a particular class. You must still have the requisite ability score (10 + spell level) in order to cast any spell stored in this slot. If you have a high enough ability modifier to gain one or more bonus spells for this spell level, you also gain the bonus spells for this spell level. You must use the spell slot as a member of the class in which you can already cast spells of the normal maximum spell level."

a slight third point..

it was mentioned about getting an IL and an ML... dosnt everyone have an IL?

[KellKheraptis]

two things, one nearly on topic , the other... not so much..

how does 'pre epic' apply to a cheesewroght kobold? as they are dragons , they are epic...

that was the nearly on topic part..

the less on topic is..

IF, cheesewrought quals for UM w/ out class's.. and you do UM 10, does that qual you for the epic spellcasting feat

"Improved Spell Capacity [Epic]

Prerequisite Ability to cast spells of the normal maximum spell level in at least one spellcasting class. 

Benefit When you select this feat, you gain one spell slot per day of any level up to one level higher than the highest-level spell you can already cast in a particular class. You must still have the requisite ability score (10 + spell level) in order to cast any spell stored in this slot. If you have a high enough ability modifier to gain one or more bonus spells for this spell level, you also gain the bonus spells for this spell level. You must use the spell slot as a member of the class in which you can already cast spells of the normal maximum spell level."

a slight third point..

it was mentioned about getting an IL and an ML... doesn't everyone have an IL?

Hmm...technically due to how Ardent works, doesn't everyone have an ML too?  Secondly, so much for NOT being a kobold...epic spells pre-epic is too good to pass up.  Third, before I forget, don't forget the possibility of custom bloodline work, as he needs one to bump 9th level spells into the tapestry (through use of Sanctum Spell for 9th ones).

[The_Mad_Linguist]

UM10 doesn't qualify you for improved spell capacity any more than IotSV7 qualifies you. 

And you can't get epic spellcasting without 24 ranks of spellcraft anyway, so that's a limiter.

[KellKheraptis]

UM10 doesn't qualify you for improved spell capacity any more than IotSV7 qualifies you. 

And you can't get epic spellcasting without 24 ranks of spellcraft anyway, so that's a limiter.

That part is easy enough, assuming we get a metamagic feat at level 20, since Cityscape gave us a way to slip in a level early on skill requirements.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

We need uncanny forethought.  You know why?

Casting Geas as a full-round action, that's why.  Then lower it to a standard action with the chronocharm of the uncaring archmage, then quicken it.

[KellKheraptis]

We need uncanny forethought.  You know why?

Casting Geas as a full-round action, that's why.  Then lower it to a standard action with the chronocharm of the uncaring archmage, then quicken it.

Correction : We need a way to get NI Spell Mastery.  Having basically full spontaneous Wizard slots is the absolute height of versatility, especially when combined with Arcane Spellsurge and how metamagic'ed spontaneous spells work.

Another quick list, and later I will consolidate :
-Uncanny Forethought
-NI Spell Mastery
-Signature Spell if possible
-Chain/Reach trick for offensive tapestry
-Embrace/Shun shenanigans on tap 24/7
-Mirror Move if it's allowed (what the hell)

[Negative Zero]

Don't forget Arcane Thesis and +0 metamagic.

[Suzerain]

Full spontaneity for wizards can be achieved with one level of Hathran and an Acorn of Far Travel.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Full spontaneity for wizards can be achieved with one level of Hathran and an Acorn of Far Travel.

Or for an even cheesier answer, take 4 points of profession: diplomat, use the Stronghold Builder's Guide for a "living in a flying box" setup, and declare the castle your embassy.

[Naldor]

Very nice, very cheesy build.  I highly suggest grabbing the Uncanny Forethought feat from Exemplars of evil, as spontaneous Wizard spells are ever so delightful to add to spontaneous sorcerer spells.  That, and the old favourite of Dweomerkeeper 4 if you can squeeze it in.  It would compromise your arcane casting a bit to take the Cleric dip required for Magic domain, but wish / etc. as SU abilities, and the ability to pull ridiculous cheese with spontaneously casting high-component cost Epic spells would be worth it in my opinion.

And since we have Epic Spellcasting from that wonderful Cityscape feat, Dweomerkepper + Uncanny Forethought + Arcane Spellsurge should allow us to cast a 100-day casting time, 30,000 XP, artifact-consuming Epic Spell at 20th level for free.

 

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Actually, as a dragon you automatically qualify for singer of concordance, which is full casting progression and gives you the magic domain at level two.  You're also immune to one compulsion/day, which is somewhat useful.

[Naldor]

You know, with all these random feats we have lying around, and the ability to perform the Dark Chaos shuffle AND get Epic feats, wouldn't it be possible to get the epic improved spell capacity feats and/or lvl 6 miracle cheese, nab an 18th level spell slot, then use that feat in Complete Arcane that gives us an at-will SLA in exchange for permanently sacrificing a slot nine levels higher?  Timestop at-will anyone? 

[KellKheraptis]

You know, with all these random feats we have lying around, and the ability to perform the Dark Chaos shuffle AND get Epic feats, wouldn't it be possible to get the epic improved spell capacity feats and/or lvl 6 miracle cheese, nab an 18th level spell slot, then use that feat in Complete Arcane that gives us an at-will SLA in exchange for permanently sacrificing a slot nine levels higher?  Timestop at-will anyone? 

Almost makes me wanna make it a SCM for a shadow illusion Miracle to emulate 9th level spells at will >.>

[KellKheraptis]

Ok, I was going to go with kobold for the cheese trick, but then I remembered my SS-fu...the Ritual of Association can make you into anything you want from a crunch standpoint : 56,000gp later, and I'm a dragon.  Going off a conservative estimate of 20 item creation feats and 10 bardic music feats (and 9 listed perform skills), assume we have 55 feats tallying 253,000gp to play with.  As in above and beyond anything from race, class, or level.  That's a running total of 309,000gp before buying gear at 20th level, with the usual bottomless gp pool should we need it actually in game, and since we can Dark Chaos shuffle into any Item Creation feat, we can also assume all our gear is self-made.  A major bloodline will augment the Tapestry, and the current incarnation of the build I'm toying with is not only built for spamability but also longevity (i.e. never runs out of ammo...EVER).

Wizard 3/War Weaver 5/Incantatrix 3/Hathran 1/Spellguard of Silverymoon 5/Primal Scholar 2/Mindbender 1

The mindbender at the end is probably negotiable, but I really like the utility of telepathy, and at 21 it can always be retrained out when Epic Spellcasting allows us to make Telepathy+Detect Thoughts+Mindsight without a save or SR anyway.  The fifth level of SoS gives us CL 20, before bloodline augmentation (52 afterwards), and that bloodline also allows for up to 8 spell levels to be recovered from one action point via Primal Scholar.  In short, you have the mana regen of an ES Sorc (D2 reference...).  More later, but there he is!

[Naldor]

Very nice build there, but I had a few questions:

Where did the bloodline levels go?  When you have a major bloodline, you've got to dump three levels into it to get the benefits, and I don't see that here.  Could you also explain in a little more detail how bloodline augmentation works to get you that CL 52?  I'd also argue that relying overmuch upon feats acquired via magical locations is problematic at best, since they mostly last for only a year.

Additionally, I'd still argue for Dweomerkeeper over War Weaver for 4 levels at least, maybe swapping out the Mindbender level for the Cleric 1 dip required.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Ritual of association can't make you a true dragon, though.  It just gives subtypes, so you don't get the age categories necessary, and you still aren't the dragon type.  I don't think there's a kobold subtype, so...