Author Topic: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources  (Read 4499 times)

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Negative Zero

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2009, 12:45:14 AM »
That sounds like it has a lot of synergy with the Cloud of Knives / Hunter's Eye thing.

anomalousman

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2009, 07:54:18 AM »
Sure you want a Sorc? My own creation is a monster at arena fights and Gestalt makes it even more evil.

Wizard(with Evocation as a known school)//Factotum(DS) with Manyjaws(SpC), Knowledge Devotion(CC), Eager weapons(MIC). Also Either Quicken Spell or Circlet of Rapid Casting(MIC).

Font of Inspiration is not necessary: even one extra standard action in an encounter should be enough against any opponent. Empowered Spell Shards are also optional, but don't cost an extra source.

You'll be using Quickened Magic Missles and Manyjaws as your main offensive.

Confused? Read Manyjaws. Notice there's up to 10 separate damage rolls. Read Magic Missle: 5 separate damage rolls. Knowledge Devotion can give up to +5 damage to every damage roll you make. Eager weapons can give +2 damage to every damage roll you make in the surprise round and the first round of combat in addition to the nice initiative bonus. So each of those d6s are 1d6+7 and each of those d4s are 1d4+8.

Also, your Int goes to Initiative in addition to your Dex thanks to Factotum so you're almost guaranteed to win initiative and deal 9d6+63 damage with your standard actions and 5d4+40 damage with your swift action. Manyjaws allows a save for half...which is why you have the backup of three Magic Missle castings which deal a combined total of 15d4+120 without worrying about Evasion.

That sounds good.  It would take quite a few of those to deal the damage - HD are maximised, and monsters are *big*.  I'm not sure magic missile would be a great idea most of the time - most combatants have some access to the shield spell.  And globes of invulnerability are cheap.  With direct damage it's also hard to get enough done per round to beat clerics with huge amounts of healing.   For the mid levels, the manyjaws approach looks like a good idea.  Whomever doesn't have evasion will die quickly.

The combination of wizard and factotum could be used in a lot of combos.  The only disadvantage to that approach is missing out on big LA to get various defensive boosts like SR, or huge stat boosts, or NA or whatever.

skydragonknight

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2009, 02:04:31 PM »
Max Hitpoints? That's harsh. Well there's always my backup plan...and it's pure evil. Tainted Scholar(Heroes of Horror).
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The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2009, 03:17:58 PM »
Max Hitpoints? That's harsh. Well there's always my backup plan...and it's pure evil. Tainted Scholar(Heroes of Horror).
Taint isn't allowed.
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anomalousman

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2009, 07:45:35 PM »
There may indeed be some of the classic "campaign breakers" left, but many of them have been trimmed out of the ruleset already.

I'm pretty sure that save-or-dies are a viable way to go, and one of the few ways not already being attempted.  Immense defenses are common (in other words, there are many near-maximal concepts running already and there will be some rock-paper-scissors effect), but in the end, you've got to be able to punch through one defense somehow.  Gishes can do that with natural 20s and time.  Gishes can also probably be crunched by a pure caster.  I have a plan now, but I'm wondering whether I can do better with a second attempt.

So, is there any way to match or beat roughly +2 Cha/level for a large number of levels?  (That's the bar set by the evolved template.)  Or failing that, what's the highest Cha/LA entry into any undead class?

Negative Zero

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2009, 08:49:26 PM »
I wouldn't rely on Save or Dies in an Arena game. I mean, if I was making an Arena character, the first defensive buff I'd put on him is something for saves. Orbs of Force are very rarely resisted (force damage, no save, SR no), and sufficient metamagic can make them very threatening (a Split Ray Twin Ocular Empowered Orb of Force is a level 6 spell, given Incantatrix 10 and Arcane Thesis). That's probably what I'd go for, anyway.

anomalousman

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2009, 08:54:43 AM »
I hear you.  Two problems:

1) A Split Ray Twin Ocular Empowered Orb of Force with Incantatrix and Arcane Thesis
requires 4 extra sources outside core.  That means no SpC, no MIC, no exotic races, etc. 

2) A typical level top tier 9-12 touch AC is around 45.  The split, twinned ocular orbs could easily all miss, even in the absence of Wall of Blades/Abrupt Jaunt/Wings of Cover.

The problem with the save-or-die attempt (and yes, I'll have a lot of direct damage handy as well) is that you have to go all out.  Either you're shooting to crest the crazy gestalt saves, or you're going to have a useless weapon.  My current character will have a level 20 Cha of 75, which is enough to make a save DC of 51.  That's not going to fail all the time.

Negative Zero

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2009, 04:20:03 PM »
Agh, I forgot the source restriction. On the other hand, yeah, that's a pretty nice save. Ow.

anomalousman

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2009, 10:19:52 PM »
Yep.  Any ideas for making it better?  :)

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2009, 03:04:13 PM »
A common bit of knowledge that seems not to have been mentioned:  It is often easier to debuff your enemie's saves, than to buff your DC's.  Using things that don't allow saves (like the Hexblade's dark companion, certain Vestiges, etc.) you can easily drop your foe's Saves and/or AC by several points.
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anomalousman

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Re: Gestalt Dragonwrought Sorcerer but with limited number of sources
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2009, 09:38:00 AM »
They're all source requiring, though.  I'm quite impressed at how your source restrictions have become the principle limitation.  It's nice.

I think I'll just try my pair of kobolds, and see if they've got the legs to last four matches each.  It's not looking good so far - although I submit that you can't beat the Lady of the Dice in any match.