Paladins: Battle Blessing + Sword of the Arcane Order?

[duncandun]

I just realized(possibly discussed to death before?) that mixing Battle blessing and sword of the arcane order as a paladin would be a pretty potent combination.

The ability to cast by far most spells as a swift action is pretty tempting, even if it is only up to 4th level spells.

Is there any abusing this combination? Throw in Mystic Fire Knight for the paladin equiv of shoot star substitution levels for more possible win.

[Risada]

I just realized(possibly discussed to death before?) that mixing Battle blessing and sword of the arcane order as a paladin would be a pretty potent combination.

The ability to cast by far most spells as a swift action is pretty tempting, even if it is only up to 4th level spells.

Is there any abusing this combination? Throw in Mystic Fire Knight for the paladin equiv of shoot star substitution levels for more possible win.

One word: wraithstrike. 

[jameswilliamogle]

I'm not sure that casting Wiz spells as swift actions works.
Does SotAO turn Wizard spells into Paladin spells, or does it just allow one to cross-prepare spells in each other's slots?
Doesn't Battle Blessing only work with Paladin spells?

Still a great feat, but I'm not sure its as potent as all that.

Here's a trick, though -
Swift action cast of Dispel Evil, then cast Whirling Blade with Sculpt Spell attached.  Dispel Evil on a huge area effect, targeting who you want.  Great on demons .

[ErhnamDJ]

I'm not sure that casting Wiz spells as swift actions works.
Does SotAO turn Wizard spells into Paladin spells, or does it just allow one to cross-prepare spells in each other's slots?
Doesn't Battle Blessing only work with Paladin spells?

The way I see it, spells you prepare using Paladin spell slots are Paladin spells.

Anyway, there are some interesting options if they count as wizard i.e. arcane spells.

[jameswilliamogle]

Not trying to be a doubting thomas or anything, but where does it say that about the spell slot thingie?  That'd be awesome, if it did work!

[duncandun]

Not trying to be a doubting thomas or anything, but where does it say that about the spell slot thingie?  That'd be awesome, if it did work!

Under sword of the arcane order, It says you can cast wizard spells using paladin/ranger spell slots.

Oh well:\ Too bad I guess.

[JaronK]

Archivist/PrC Paladin with Battle Blessing.  Wheeeee!

JaronK

[ninjarabbit]

If the wizard spells from SotAO are considered paladin spells then obviously yes, if not then that possibly opens up silly things like paladin/abjurantchampions.

[ErhnamDJ]

Okay, I looked back over the feats. SotAO specifically says you are casting wizard spells.

Are they paladin spells too? Who knows? What qualifies as a 'paladin spell?' Is it a spell on the paladin spell list? Is it a spell prepared in a paladin spell slot?

Unfortunately, Wizards never gave us that answer. I don't think anyone was willing to put their own ass on the line and take the blame for all the resulting interactions, as was so often the case whenever we had a question about things handled differently in different books.

What if the spell appears on both spell lists? And is prepared in a paladin spell slot? Would that be a paladin and a wizard spell?

Eh, there's really no answer. I don't think there's supposed to be an answer.

[woodenbandman]

Just take 4 levels of Geomancer. Double whee!

[duncandun]

If the wizard spells from SotAO are considered paladin spells then obviously yes, if not then that possibly opens up silly things like paladin/abjurantchampions.

I'm going to go with this... because if they are indeed not paladin spells, then they are still arcane and will allow you to qualify for arcane prestiges like abjurant champion.

It can't be either... has to be one of them.

[Rymosrac]

I'm going with the SotAO spells in paladin spell slots count as paladin spells, but I'm doing so because paladins need a couple dirty tricks more than archivists do.

[duncandun]

I'm going with the SotAO spells in paladin spell slots count as paladin spells, but I'm doing so because paladins need a couple dirty tricks more than archivists do.

Yeah, but that would be pretty game breaking. Especially if theres a paladin substitution like mystic ranger that increases spell progression by a ton... casting two wizard 4ths a round by level 8 would be pretty wicked.

Also, unless this is really clear cut and this combination wouldn't work, how would one figure out if it is? Just talk to your DM?

[Salt_Crow]

I just realized(possibly discussed to death before?) that mixing Battle blessing and sword of the arcane order as a paladin would be a pretty potent combination.

The ability to cast by far most spells as a swift action is pretty tempting, even if it is only up to 4th level spells.

Is there any abusing this combination? Throw in Mystic Fire Knight for the paladin equiv of shoot star substitution levels for more possible win.

One word: wraithstrike. 

Nah wraithstrike's already swift action casting iirc.

[duncandun]

I can see using this with a leap attack pouncer build, before pouncing(and smiting chargeing) hit him with a spell in the same round. Maybe an Ennervate, or some other debilitating spell.

Or hell, just double empowered ennervate him every round.

Thats pretty weak, I know. I'm not knowledgeable enough with spell casters to really take advantage of something like that.

[jameswilliamogle]

Swift casting Polymorph on a Paladin is pretty strong, imo.  They already benefit a ton from having ridiculous Str.  Combining that with the ability to dump Str at the start...  Well, its very strong.

Swift casting of Evard', to keep mobs away, swift solid fog, swift haste, swift mirror image (at relatively low levels), swift True Strike(!!!NO NEED FOR SHOCKTROOPER ANYMORE, WITH ONE FEAT!!!), etc etc...

It takes a Wizard in 3.5 a lot of levels of some specific PrCs and feats to reduce Quicken spell by that much.

[Risada]

I just realized(possibly discussed to death before?) that mixing Battle blessing and sword of the arcane order as a paladin would be a pretty potent combination.

The ability to cast by far most spells as a swift action is pretty tempting, even if it is only up to 4th level spells.

Is there any abusing this combination? Throw in Mystic Fire Knight for the paladin equiv of shoot star substitution levels for more possible win.

One word: wraithstrike. 

Nah wraithstrike's already swift action casting iirc.

But it is a great Wizard spell to have anyway 

[Emy]

It takes a Wizard in 3.5 a lot of levels of some specific PrCs and feats to reduce Quicken spell by that much.

Arcane spellsurge, you say?

[Salt_Crow]

I just realized(possibly discussed to death before?) that mixing Battle blessing and sword of the arcane order as a paladin would be a pretty potent combination.

The ability to cast by far most spells as a swift action is pretty tempting, even if it is only up to 4th level spells.

Is there any abusing this combination? Throw in Mystic Fire Knight for the paladin equiv of shoot star substitution levels for more possible win.

One word: wraithstrike. 

Nah wraithstrike's already swift action casting iirc.

But it is a great Wizard spell to have anyway 

Preach it, bro!

[GawainBS]

The exact wording of the feat gives you no caster level, unless you have levels in Wizard.
What do you guys do?