Author Topic: metamagic specialist + metaspells for many slots & other coolness  (Read 4687 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

DavidWL

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
    • Email
--------Fundamental Idea--------
- If you spam enough metamagic with arcane thesis/improved metamagic, etc. some spells are very good
   - evocation spells become useful
   - healing spells become useful
   - debuffs become incredibly dangerous
   - action multipliers (celerity, arcane fusion, etc.) are insane
   - Spells that grant spells!  (I'm focusing on this one)
- You have to be a little careful with the wording (spells slots, Spell Level, prepared spells, you can cast, etc.)

I've seen a lot of threads on this topic, but never one that looked at it holistically.  (Arcane Thesis Abuse, Celerity Abuse, Arcane Fusion Abuse, etc.).

--------Metamagic Altering--------
Adroit Casting (Repeat, Twin, or Echoing)
Improved Metamagic
Practiced Spellcaster (Repeat, Twin, or Echoing)
Arcane Thesis (Spell in Question)
Metamagic School Focus

--------Meta Effects----------------Feats / select abilities--------
- Repeat Spell
- Twin Spell
- Share Spells ability of a familiar
- Echoing Spell - "cast as normal, returns *as if it had been prepared again* [aka, into a spell slot] at -4 CL in 1 hour"
- Residual Metamagic
- Sanctum Spell - a sanctum spell has an *effective spell level* 1 higher than its normal level if cast in your sanctum, but if not cast in the sanctum, the spell has an *effective spell level* 1 lower than normal.  It uses a spell slot of the spells normal level.
- Circle Magic (from Ghostwalk or Prestige Class - for use with Echoing Spell)
- Heighten
- Versatile Caster - you can use two *spell slots* of the same level to cast a spell you know that is one level higher)
- Arcane Preparation for a Sorcerer (to qualify as a prepared caster)
- Spontaneous Divination for a Wizard (to qualify as a spontaneous caster)

--------Some Key Thoughts--------

--------Generic Build repeat/echoing specialist--------

Human
Wizard (Spontaneous Divination) 5/Incantatrix 10/Halruaan Elder 5

Feats:
1 Halruaan Adept
1 Spell Thematics (Bonus Human)
1 Scribe Scroll (Bonus Wizard)
3 Extend Spell
6 ... Any ...
6 Iron Will (Magical Location)
6 Persistant Spell (Bonus Incantatrix)
9 Practiced Spellcaster (Echoing)
9 Echoing Spell (Bonus Incantatrix)
12 Practiced Spellcaster (Repeat)
12 Repeat Spell (Bonus Incantatrix)
15 ... Any Metamagic ... (Bonus Incantatrix)
15 Versatile Caster
18 Sanctum Spell

Abilities of Note:

Adroit Casting (Echoing, Repeat)
Practiced Spellcaster (Echoing, Repeat)
Improved Metamagic
Versatile Spellcaster / Sanctum Spell
Circle Magic

So, you can have as many spells as you want (depending on your level of cheese). 

An Echoed, Repeated, Extended buff that is 1 min/level will have an effective duration of 14 hours!

EDIT:  You can also cast _every_ spell as a Repeat, Echo spell.  Meaning every spell prepared becomes prepared twice, and each of these 2 preparations recovers 1 hour after cast => ~ each slot is like have a spell prepared ~14 times.

Best,
David
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 04:57:51 PM by DavidWL »
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

Quote from: Runestar / skydragonknight
The most powerful character is the one that you actually get to play.

Quote from: Operation Shoestring
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
DavidWL's Random Build Archive

DavidWL

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
    • Email
Re: metamagic specialist + metaspells for many slots & other coolness
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 09:29:31 AM »
Saved.

Your thoughts? 

I've seen a large number of abuses (Twinned / Repeated with Celerity and Arcane Fusion, Maximized Twinned Empowered Energy-Admixtured Explosive Blasters and debuffers, etc.).

I haven't seen that much discussion about optimizing it so that it was generic (most builds focused on arcane thesis).

I haven't seen that much discussion about focusing on getting the most out of your spell slots.  (Some, but not as much).

Best,
David
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

Quote from: Runestar / skydragonknight
The most powerful character is the one that you actually get to play.

Quote from: Operation Shoestring
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
DavidWL's Random Build Archive

Emy

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
Re: metamagic specialist + metaspells for many slots & other coolness
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 10:11:08 AM »
- Residual Metamagic

To clarify, the feat is called Residual Magic, and it's a [tactical] feat, which means it has multiple uses. The applicable use here is called Lingering Metamagic.

The_Mad_Linguist

  • Organ Grinder
  • *****
  • Posts: 8780
  • Simulated Thing
Re: metamagic specialist + metaspells for many slots & other coolness
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 04:15:58 PM »
Didn't T_G end up getting an infinite number of spell slots with a similar combo?
Linguist, Mad, Unique, none of these things am I
My custom class: The Priest of the Unseen Host
Planetouched Handbook
Want to improve your character?  Then die.

DavidWL

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
    • Email
Re: metamagic specialist + metaspells for many slots & other coolness
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 04:56:16 PM »
Didn't T_G end up getting an infinite number of spell slots with a similar combo?

I've seen a couple of different tricks for getting infinite spell slots.  I guess my point is that there are probably a stupidly large number of such tricks.

Also, that there are a number of distinct flavors for metamagic specialists, some of which probably haven't been as well explored as they should be.

Finally, that Echoing is a great metamagic which doesn't get as much attention as it deserves.

Best,
David
« Last Edit: May 18, 2009, 04:58:47 PM by DavidWL »
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

Quote from: Runestar / skydragonknight
The most powerful character is the one that you actually get to play.

Quote from: Operation Shoestring
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
DavidWL's Random Build Archive

DavidWL

  • Bi-Curious George
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
    • Email
Re: metamagic specialist + metaspells for many slots & other coolness
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 04:56:34 PM »
- Residual Metamagic

To clarify, the feat is called Residual Magic, and it's a [tactical] feat, which means it has multiple uses. The applicable use here is called Lingering Metamagic.

Oh, ok - my bad.
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

Quote from: Runestar / skydragonknight
The most powerful character is the one that you actually get to play.

Quote from: Operation Shoestring
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
DavidWL's Random Build Archive