Critique the Ascetic Ambusher

[Rebel7284]

Looking for critique and suggestions

I was looking at the Invisible Fist alternate class feature for monks in exemplars of evil.

Relevant parts:
[spoiler]
Replaces: If you select this class feature, you do not gain
the evasion ability, nor do you gain improved evasion at
9th level.
Benefit: As an immediate action, you can become invisible
for 1 round. You must wait 3 rounds before you can use this
ability again.
[/spoiler]

This seems pretty damned good ability for a rogue to have.
This is the build I created to use this ability:

[spoiler]
1 Rogue 1: Two Weapon Fighting
2 (Ex) Monk 1
3 (Ex) Monk 2: Weapon Finesse
4 Scout 1
5 Scout 2
6 Barbarian (Lion Totem, Whirling Frenzy) 1: Ascetic Rogue (Text trumps table, but that only costs us 1d6 sneak attack)
7 Scout 3
8 Rogue 2
9 Rogue 3: Swift Ambusher
10 Rogue 4
11 Rogue 5
12 Rogue 6: Snap Kick
13 Rogue 7
14 Rogue 8
15 Rogue 9: Improved Skirmish
16 Rogue 10
17 Rogue 11
18 Rogue 12: Craven
19 Rogue 13
20 Rogue 14
[/spoiler]

Final Attributes:
HD: 1d12 + 5d8 + 14d6
Saves: +10/+15/+8
Wis+1 to AC
9d6+20 Sneak Attack
7d6/+4 Skirmish (9d6/+6 if you move at least 20 feet.)
Unarmed damage of a level 21 Monk (2d10 for medium, 4d8 for large)

Attack Routine:
+13/+8/+3 or
+11/+6/+1/+11/+6 (TWF)
+9/+9/+4/-1/+9/+4 (Flurry, TWF) or
+7/+7/+7/+2/-3/+7/+2 (Flurry, Snap Kick, TWF) or
+5/+5/+5/+5/+0/-5/+5/+0 (Flurry, Snap Kick, Whirling Frenzy, TWF)

Strategy:
[spoiler]
First round of combat:
Charge the biggest threat, full attack
Second Round:
Turn invisible and charge the next target
[/spoiler]


Edit, changed around feats to add TWF, now assuming gloves of the balanced hand (MIC) and Monk's Belt as equipment.

[BowenSilverclaw]

Wait, there's no limit on how many times per day you can use that ability?


BTW, Weapon Finesse requires BAB+1, the reason Rogues everywhere hate that feat for the first 1 or 2 levels of there career



Aside from that, looks like a good build

[Rebel7284]

Wait, there's no limit on how many times per day you can use that ability?

Nope! No limit! Just the 3 round cooldown.  Anyone know of a way to extend a supernatural ability? 

BTW, Weapon Finesse requires BAB+1, the reason Rogues everywhere hate that feat for the first 1 or 2 levels of there career

Thanks, changed to put in TWF instead for a better attack routine.

By the way, anyone know of a way to make attacks into touch attacks outside of UMDing Wraithstrike?  I sense a flurry of misses phenomena.

[Arcane-surge]

Out of curiousity, does it specify invisibility as the spell, or what? Because if it does, then wouldn't you become visible after your first attack?

[VennDygrem]

Out of curiousity, does it specify invisibility as the spell, or what? Because if it does, then wouldn't you become visible after your first attack?

I don't think it matters. It only lasts one round anyway, so if he tries staying invisible longer than that there's no benefit. I think he's using it to reliably get sneak attack damage every 3 rounds at the very least.
------------

The real downside, I think is that this won't help you against opponents with See Invisiblity or True Seeing, so be careful at higher levels.

[Agita]

Wait, there's no limit on how many times per day you can use that ability?

Nope! No limit! Just the 3 round cooldown.  Anyone know of a way to extend a supernatural ability? 

As a matter of fact, yes. Extend Supernatural Ability, from Tome of Magic. Only works 1/day, though.

[ninjarabbit]

Invisible fist is nice but hardly broken

Trip attacks are touch AC attacks, use the passive way monk to get improved trip at level 2 and use kamas to do the trip attacks

[Rebel7284]

Invisible fist is nice but hardly broken

Right, it's not a caster.

Trip attacks are touch AC attacks, use the passive way monk to get improved trip at level 2 and use kamas to do the trip attacks

That requires optimizing Str checks and you still need to make normal attacks (albeit at a +4 bonus).

[Prime32]

Wait, there's no limit on how many times per day you can use that ability?

Nope! No limit! Just the 3 round cooldown.  Anyone know of a way to extend a supernatural ability? 

As a matter of fact, yes. Extend Supernatural Ability, from Tome of Magic. Only works 1/day, though.

If there's something similar to Recover Breath... and you use that weapon which turns you invisible for 1 round after you sneak attack someone with it...

[woodenbandman]

This hardly compares to a Wand of Greater Invisibility.

[Rebel7284]

This hardly compares to a Wand of Greater Invisibility.

Immediate action is nice, wand of Greater Invisibility not only costs a lot but also requires a standard action and lasts for only one combat.

[Alastar]

This hardly compares to the cloak of deception maneuver then.


Seriously, i don't think that:

A- this works, considering that it works like invisibility, meaning you only get ONE sneak attack
B- There are far less farfetched ways to get in the sneak attack, feinting, flanking and hitting the grappled/blinded target from your wizard's control spells being chief among them.
C- Sneak attack is often impaired by a lot of things, even in low levels, elementals, plants, undeads, and constructs figuring chief among them.
D- There are many ways other than 2 monk levels to get greater invisibility, cloak of deception maneuver or the hereby mentionned wand of greater invisibility being only some of them.

My 2 cents.

[Negative Zero]

It doesn't say 'as the spell'. It just says 'become invisible for one round'. Ergo, attacking doesn't break it.

[Brainpiercing]

It doesn't say 'as the spell'. It just says 'become invisible for one round'. Ergo, attacking doesn't break it.

If that's the precise wording it could be right.

I would contend that this build NEEDS UMD a LOT, because your BAB is pathetic, and the attack progression even more so. You need either Divine Power or a Wand of Wraithstrike fired from a wand-holding weapon. And then you still need Gravestrike or something and Plantstrike and the thingy for constructs.

[Operation Shoestring]

It doesn't say 'as the spell'. It just says 'become invisible for one round'. Ergo, attacking doesn't break it.

If that's the precise wording it could be right.

I would contend that this build NEEDS UMD a LOT, because your BAB is pathetic, and the attack progression even more so. You need either Divine Power or a Wand of Wraithstrike fired from a wand-holding weapon. And then you still need Gravestrike or something and Plantstrike and the thingy for constructs.

Razing Strike.

This is a bit better than a Binder's invisibility /5 rounds with malphas, but malphas has better fringe benefits.

[woodenbandman]

^Such as being a Binder and not a monk.