Friend needs caster redesign help

[jameswilliamogle]

He feels extremely underpowered. 

Here's the campaign -
32 pb / standard WBL / ECL 8
all WotC and 3rd party (yes, everything)
UA rules are fine (LA Buyoff, bloodlines).  Spontaneous Casting variant is available (if you played DDO, its like that).
Weird crit rules (% crit on each hit = difference between target AC and what you rolled multiplied by the crit range, super crits happen, too)
We have been working through some overpowered Monte Cook shit where we routinely are facing CR 2-3 higher than ECL monsters.
No NI or true I tricks.
Forgotten Realms standard setting in Athkatla (which makes item acquisition ridiculously difficult).

Currently he's playing a Spellthief 1 / Wizard 5 / Unseen Seer 2.  I helped him design it, but its kind of a classic standard for roguie casters.  Also, this is before I realized how high-powered the game would be.

Here's the rest of the party.
Cleric w/ DMM Persist.  Spontaneous casting of all his spells anytime he wants.  DM runs this guy.

Bard / Druid going for Arcane Hieromphant / Sublime Chord / Fochlucan Lyricist.  Currently sucks, but he's waiting it out until power goes up, and is quite happy w/ the build.  I helped him with the build.

Phrenic Magic in the Blood Binder 8.  Currently abusing Otiax's touch attack w/ Power Attack to super crit about once every other round, and doing about 40-60 damage outside of that.  Uses 3rd party Villains of Pact Magic and Secrets of Pact Magic feats and vestiges to get 3 vestiges bound daily.  That's me.  I'm kicking ass and taking names, as usual.

We're currently on the chaotic side of neutral; alignment isn't really a huge issue.

What he wants
He's looking to bring in a brand new character.  His current one might as well auto-fail any non-reflex save he has to make.  He's been turned to stone, been nauseated, been dropped to less than 0 multiple times...  By comparison, the rest of us have not been anywhere near as bad.

For the party, we still need a dedicated arcane caster.  There have been traps, but we can bypass them fairly easily at this level.

Because of the item acquisition issues, I was thinking a caster that doesn't need to buy scrolls etc.  Warmage sucks.  Dread Necromancer isn't strong enough, plus it gets a bit boring past 12th or so.  Beguiler might work, but this is a heavy combat game (luckily, we're at the level where their spells start kicking arse).  Sorcerer could work too.  Also thinking about Incanatrix, since its available...  Maybe MotAO...  Maybe Iot7V / Master Abjurist for survivability...

Also was thinking about having him apply the half-fey template with Magic in the Blood, just to get a ton of SLAs as well. 

Perhaps we could use a dedicated melee'r, too...  Shocktrooper type?  Those are easy, but with so much open up I'm a bit lost on the 3rd party material...

Any further ideas?

[Lycanthromancer]

What about a whispergnome focused specialist illusionist/shadowcraft mage? It'd let him be crazy-go-nuts imaginative with his illusion spells, and he could get rid of conjuration, evocation, and some third school (enchantment?). [edit] Maybe add on some red wizard of Thay or archmage. [/edit]

Alternately, maybe a shaper psion/anarchic initiate (see Complete Psionic), or a shaper psion/constructor, or a 100% psychic warrior.

[jameswilliamogle]

ScM isn't a bad idea...  We need immediate and consistent power, though.

[InnaBinder]

Venerable Desert Kobold Sorcerer 5/Wild Soul (Unseelie Soul) 3 with the Greater Draconic Right of Passage, aiming at Sorc 5/WldSl 8/Iot7V 7.  Some nifty defenses all along the way, rocking illusions and abjurations and the ability to summon (elder?) Redcaps for giggles when you need another beatstick.

[Eldariel]

How about going with Archivist instead? With enough sources, he can replicate most of what a Wizard does, while wearing Medium Armor, having high Fort-saves and "enjoying" a d6 HD. Rogue 1/Archivist X would be just fine as a Rogue-proxy (with Able Learner) while passing for an arcane caster just fine and having access to the divine side of things too (including protective magic). Next level he could dip Sacred Exorcist for DMM.

Other than that, Wizard with Abrupt Jaunt could be a lot more survivable. Wizard 5/Incantatrix 3 would already be persisting everything and would pack quite the wallop.  I'm sure I don't need to recount the awesome Incantatrix and Conjurer provide, so I'll leave it at that.

Finally, Artificer. Out-of-the-box Rogue proxy with the ability to persist buffs (on this level, he can already pack a fuckton of Metamagic Items for Eternal Wands hell, he can use Metamagic Spell Trigger with divine wands if he feels so inclined), multiplying the party's WBL and overall, being insane.


Either way, I'd probably look into something that can persist a lot of buffs as that's very friendly for people not experienced in keeping themselves alive; being immune to half the stuff thrown at you and having saving throws & AC 10 points higher than usual for your level vs. the rest is a good place to be at.

If interested in reworking his present character, you could use Faerie Mysteries Initiate [DRSomething Something] Wizard (or Necropolitan; being Undead would fix the HD and get you nice Fort-immunities vs. most things) applying Int to Will-saves with Keen Intellect, and maneuvering around Fort-saves (mayhap using Mind over Body through Martial Study to Concentration them instead? Or just using Necropolitan as above). It seems like survivability is the issue, so spend more-than-usual resources on it could be the key.

[Lycanthromancer]

Or, you could have him take levels in (cloistered) cleric of Mystra with knowledge devotion and the spell domain, with Heighten Spell, the Domain Spontaneity feat, and greater/anyspell.

All the goodness of both a cleric and wizard, without the wizard.

[edit] Actually, I'm not sure this would work... [/edit]

[Lycanthromancer]

Hmm. What about bard/sublime chord 1/any full-casting PrC?

Nets you full casting and other goodies, to boot.

Or better yet, bard 1/wizard 5/sublime chord 1/casting PrC X.

[Havok4]

Or better yet, bard 1/wizard 5/sublime chord 1/casting PrC X.

Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage would work well in that build.

[Lycanthromancer]

Or better yet, bard 1/wizard 5/sublime chord 1/casting PrC X.

Ultimate Magus from Complete Mage would work well in that build.

Ooh. Wizard casting + sublime chord casting FTW.

[Eldariel]

Or, you could have him take levels in (cloistered) cleric of Mystra with knowledge devotion and the spell domain, with Heighten Spell, the Domain Spontaneity feat, and greater/anyspell.

All the goodness of both a cleric and wizard, without the wizard.

[edit] Actually, I'm not sure this would work... [/edit]

Well, such stuff is no good until you have Domain-slots of the appropriate level. That said, Anyspell is already available, and Dweomerkeeper [CDiv] of Mystra is certainly a fine choice of class; could go very Cheater of Mystraish here. Especially is DMM: Persisting with Initiate of Mystra-backup. Couple of levels from now, persistent AMF with buffs within and he's good to go. Right now, just Persistent Everything.

[PhaedrusXY]

Necropolitan (or bone creature) Spell-to-Power Erudite/Thrallherd that heavily abuses the synergy available from having a horde of psionic followers + Feat Leech and Bestow Power (on a follower). Make sure his Thrall has Expanded Knowledge, so he can use Feat Leech to access any level 3 power or spell whenever he wants, regardless of whether he's ever heard of it before or not.

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Race: Unseelie Fey (dragon compendium) Dragonwrought magic-blooded (dragon 306) venerable kobold Ghost 2 (using the ghost savage progression (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040117a), LA bought off every three levels: IE, you get level of savage progression before level three, buy it off, get your second level before level six, buy it off, et cetra.  More levels of Ghost can be picked up later following the same pattern - rejuvenation makes you literally invincible at level fifteen, so long as you're sticking around for a big enough reason (something that will end the campaign once you accomplish it). 

 Dread necromancer 1 / Rainbow Servant 10 / motUH 7 / Foo 2

All cleric spells spontaneously castable, all wizard/sorc spells in the PHB spontaneously castable, all dread necromancer spells spontaneously castable, and with versatile spellcaster you're able to trade two slots for a slot a single level higher.  Combine with heighten spell, and you can get access to second level spells at first level, third level spells when you'd normally get second, et cetra.  Dig out the -foo- heritage feats from dragon compendium to flesh out your list a little more in exchange for some trivial restriction like not being able to cast [water] spells or something.

Even if your DM follows the table instead of the text for Rainbow Servant (in violation of the official rules on hierarchy - text always trumps tables), you'll still get ninth level spell access.  You're like a mystic theurge, but functional.


And you don't have to worry about getting boring after 12th or so, because that's when you get all cleric spells available.

Basically, you'll be able to keep up with the cheese cleric spell-wise, heal yourself infinitely for free, shoot people with 45d6 worth of really big greatswords every d4+1 rounds, phase through walls, fly with perfect maneuverability, make an army, drop an opponent's saves to nothing, qualify for epic feats, and much much more.  At level six. 

[jameswilliamogle]

I'll make sure he reads these options.

We already have a Cleric (of Mystra).  So, its less likely he'll go that route.  I'm pretty sure we use the nerfed version of anyspell from SpC, which sucks balls.  Plus, there's the scroll access issue.

Scroll access is a big deal already.  So, Archivist is probably not a good idea.

Thrallherd abuse is cool; nice combo there!  And not infinite, just god-awful powerful.  Which is just fine for this campaign.  Plus, Leadership is actually encouraged.  Would Erudite or Psion be better?

Kobold Sorcerer of doom ideas may work, too.  I just have to see what he's into.  I can sell just about anything, but I don't want to promote something that he isn't enthusiastic about right away.  I think ghost might be too weird, though.  Where is the Loredrake cheese found?

How does that Rainbow Servant build work?  How is access that early?

[The_Mad_Linguist]

Rainbow servant's level 10 capstone adds all cleric spells to your class list.  Warmage/beguiler/dread necro automatically learn all spells on their spell list when they gain access to that spell level.  Ca Ching!

Rainbow servant's spellcasting progression says "Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new rainbow servant level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which she could cast 3rd-level arcane spells before she added the prestige class." 
Based on the rules laid out by WotC, this is considered the primary source over the table, which loses a level of spellcasting at levels 1, 4, 7, and 10. 

The early entry is made possible by picking up "eldritch corruption", a feat that has a taint prerequisite, and lets you sacrifice constitution from allies (like, say, some chickens that you've used handle animal on) to get free metamagic, including a two-level heighten.  Since heighten increases the spell that the spell is considered being for all purposes, this makes you technically capable of casting third level spells. 

Becoming undead gives you a fixed taint score of half your charisma, and causes you to take no penalties from being tainted.  Getting moderate taint gives you a free feat - so when you become undead you get a free feat!  Excellent!

You can do the same trick with necropolitan, but since necropolitan requires you to be level three and then delevels you, you end up needing to have two levels of dread necromancer instead of one, and miss out on the nifty ghost abilities.

[InnaBinder]

Loredrake is Dragons of Eberron, page 31.

[Caelic]

Rainbow servant's spellcasting progression says "Spells per Day/Spells Known: When a new rainbow servant level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class in which she could cast 3rd-level arcane spells before she added the prestige class." 
Based on the rules laid out by WotC, this is considered the primary source over the table, which loses a level of spellcasting at levels 1, 4, 7, and 10. 

Note, however, that later editions (the German edition, for instance) do not have this ambiguity; the text and table both confirm that Rainbow Servant is not a 10-level class.

RAW (as long as you persuade yourself that later printings in foreign languages don't count) you can argue that it's a 10-level class.  RAI, it has been made abundantly, abundantly clear that it was never meant to be one, and that the text is simply a case of lazy cut-and-pasting.

[Hazren]

Hmm. What about bard/sublime chord 1/any full-casting PrC?

Nets you full casting and other goodies, to boot.

Or better yet, bard 1/wizard 5/sublime chord 1/casting PrC X.

I like it , but how do you get sublime chord with a 6th level character (Bard 1/ Wizard 5) when you need 13 skill ranks in Knowledge Arcana and Listen?

[jameswilliamogle]

I have no idea how the DM would interpret the Rainbow Servant.  Plus, he's slow w/ email, so lets forget about it for now.

Sublime Chord early entry is a myth.  You can enter it at L10 w/ super cheese, but then the build is so tight on feats its not worth it.

[Caelic]

Well, here's a question nobody seems to have asked yet:

What is the player like?

Some builds work very well...in the hands of the right player.  In the hands of a player who doesn't understand them/isn't good at resource management, they're awful.

Would this player be better suited with a simple character, or something more powerful but also more complex in how it functions?

[jameswilliamogle]

He's pretty familiar w/ the precepts of 3.5, but has primarily played in low-optimization games.  He's running his current character just fine, currently, so I know he's just fine playing spellcasters.

Whats the best way to combine some of the Sorcerer tricks w/ the Incanatrix for the most rapid entry and using Loredrake / White Dragonspawn cheese?