Author Topic: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey  (Read 6788 times)

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Heliomance

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How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« on: May 03, 2009, 10:36:10 PM »
It seems an awful lot of optimisation threads focus on personal power. But everyone doing that leads to a lack of party cohesion. I've never seen any threads dedicated to being a kickass buffbot. What's the best way to go about it? Bard with Inspire Courage optimisation? Cleric? War Weaver? Some combination?

It would be nice if the information obtained here could be turned into a handbook at some point, though I don't know how feasible that would be. Anyway, fire away: what's the best character build to make the rest of your party utterly terrifying?

Takanaki

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2009, 10:52:39 PM »
Archivist with DMM build and reach spell with easy metamagic to lower th cost... or maybe rods of reach/chanining.

I reach/chain/buff a hell of a lot with my Archivist, there's not many spells I can't cast either.

Operation Shoestring

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2009, 10:55:12 PM »
A lot of builds can be very good buffers.  A plain jane Cloistered Cleric can do it very well with the right spell selection.

There's always the Words of HAX Bard, or the Wizard/Warweaver/Spellguard of Silverymoon/Recaster too.

Midnight_v

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2009, 10:58:04 PM »
Yeah... I think the "Song of death: The bardic badass" was the best one I've seen for a long long time.
I think JJ made that.
Inspire courage + Song of the white raven + Words of creation and dragonfire inspiration.
Its savage for all the party members.
and you can do it either as a Crusader or Warblade so its awsome that it has multiple paths is never useless and makes everyone in you're party frikken Haus.
I'd find and link it but I'm sure you can just google that...
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sonofzeal

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2009, 12:27:12 AM »
This calls for Kale the Auramaster (I really need to update my page for the build some day, so I can actually link it without embarresment)


Saint (+2 LA), Marshal 2 / Bard 1 / Divine Mind 10 / Paladin 3 / Dragon Shaman 1 / Dread Commando 1

Items: Horn of Goodness, Admiral's Bicorn, Regalia of the Hero


I've played this guy in a lvl8 game, and he was terrifyingly effective.  His horse could outfight Ogres, and every party member was so far more effective that the DM had to start throwing utterly ridiculous encounters at us.  I voluntarily retired him, but he remains by far the most powerful character I've played.  And he couldn't even do much by himself!

Concept: Buffs are decent, sometimes.  But unless your buff increases the buffee's power by a sizeable fraction, it's not worth the combat round.  Also, making only one party member uber leaves others feeling left out... assuming that the buff has an impressive impact, and if it doesn't then what's the point?  The Auramaster bypasses both these problems by relying on a host of minor, passive buffs that affect many people and don't require an action to activate.  A +2 bonus to saves is generally not worth a combat turn even at low levels, but a constant, permanent +2 saves is actually a pretty sweet thing to have.  And +2 saves for everyone in the party might be a lifesaver.  Combine a variety of defensive and utility auras (Motivate Dex is good here) with Inspire Courage cheese, and the Auramaster becomes rather gamebreaking.  His boosts, while individually small, are numerous and are multiplied for each member of the party.  Only use this guy with experienced DMs though, as balancing for a party with an Auramaster is a difficult task indeed.

Akalsaris

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2009, 12:42:05 AM »
Just to sum up:

Bard: just optimize inspire courage and cast lots of Buff spells.  Can be combined with other stuff easily enough to be the party skills or tank or damage or whatever.

War weaver: lets you dump a ton of buffs simultaneously, though without reach spell or the 5th level in the class it's not that great for touch-based buffs.

Aura users: auras generally suck, but stack enough of them on together and they can be pretty effective. 

Artificer: hasn't been mentioned yet, but making items for other players is effectively buffing them without wasting combat rounds, and a lot of armor/shield/weapon infusions are good buffs on their own, especially with preparation. 

Surreal

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2009, 01:16:20 AM »
Here's one of my passive buff builds back on 339: Reikhardt is your buddy - http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-977299
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Generic_PC

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2009, 01:34:01 AM »
War Weaver is a really good idea for the ultimate buffmonkey. prepare 1 Persisted(Or extended) Mage armour and hit every single caster or lightly armoured dude with it.
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DavidWL

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2009, 05:38:11 AM »
Here's another build which uses heartfire fanner (great buffer):

Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobold Sorcerer

BUILD:
Marshall 1/Sorcerer 4/Heartfire Fanner 5/Mythic Exemplar 10/

PROGRESSION:
Marshall 1/Sorcerer 4/Mythic Exemplar 2/Heartfire Fanner 5/Mythic Exemplar 3-10

FEATS:
1  Dragonwrought, Skill Focus(Diplomacy) -> Negotiator [via Psychic Reformation]

6  Draconic Reservoir
6  Skill Focus (Perform) - [From Magical Location - Heward's Hall]
9  Words of Creation
12 Song of the Heart
15 Extend Song
18

Abilities of Note:
- Sorcerer CL = 16 (including Wings of Cover)
- Use Inpsired fight + Song of the Heart => 4 bonus fighter feats
- Marshall => +Cha to allies Dex checks (including initiative, and some combat manuevers)
- Inspire Courage / Inspire Greatness as a 19th level bard (9 levels from Heartfire Fanner 5 + 10 from Mythic Exemplar) => ~ +10 from Inspire Courage and + ~ 3 HD from Inspire Greatness when various perks are included
- Finally:  We have Reikhardt's Archetype advancement, and can add +4 to any Ex bonus.
- Note:  It would be nice to fit in 1 level of warblade for white raven tactics / iron heart surge
- Note2:  Can take draconic auras if desired, although the spells are probably preferrable.

=>
+4 fighter feats to all allies
+10 to hit and to damage to all allies
+Cha (~ +12) to Initiative / Dex based rolls
+Cha to Reflex or Will Save
+4 to stack with some ability ... ?

Best,
David
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

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I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
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Heliomance

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2009, 08:32:38 AM »
Where are Heartfire Fanner and Mythic Exemplar from?

Omen of Peace

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2009, 08:59:53 AM »
It's out of the scope of this thread, but I figure Gestalt builds are worth mentioning:
- one Wizard/War Weaver/X // Archivist/Geomancer/Y : you persist both arcane and divine spells ; the ones you can't persist you store in the tapestry. This one really plays off of Gestalt strengths - two standard builds can't quite provide the same abilities.
- one Inspire Courage/Dragonfire Inspiration Bard with Marshal and other aura providers (see posts above) on the other side. This one can be emulated by 2 standard builds, but the aura build would be pretty boring to play IMO. Make it a cohort instead.

edit: Mythic Exemplar is in Complete Champion.
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Suzerain

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2009, 10:43:41 AM »
Regarding Gestalt play, just keep in mind there can't be a level with prestige classes on both sides.

So that'd be Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Wizard 10 // Archivist 10/Geomancer 10 under strict Gestalt rules. Much more is possible if your DM bends the rules, of course.

Caelic

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2009, 02:50:34 PM »
One of my favorites has always been Bard 8/Sublime Chord 2/War Weaver 5/Recaster 5, taking the first levels of War Weaver and Recaster at levels 9 and 10.

If you want to keep things simpler, ditch the Recaster.  You lose the ability to cherry-pick spells (and the ability to cast Heal through your eldritch tapestry is just nice,) but you gain Bard 9, and thus Inspire Greatness.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2009, 02:55:22 PM »
Wiz5/Incantatrix10/War Weaver5 (not in that order).

Incantatrix gets a lot of attention as a self-centered blaster PrC, but it is actually one of the best PrCs there is for party enablement. You only really need 3 levels of it for this, though. So it might be possible to squeeze something else in, like Spellguard of Silverymoon.

Master Specialist (Abjurer) might be something to consider, also, for the ability to stick personal spells on other people (IIRC).
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Heliomance

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2009, 07:33:54 PM »
Where's Recaster from? I've heard quite a lot about it on various CO boards, but not come across it in any books.

Emy

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2009, 07:47:28 PM »
Where's Recaster from? I've heard quite a lot about it on various CO boards, but not come across it in any books.

Races of Eberron

I find this page very handy for answering these sorts of questions.

woodenbandman

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2009, 07:59:15 PM »
I'm doing just fine with an Archivist10/Contemplative3/Sacred Exorcist 1. Get cool shit like Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Chained GMW, Reached Chained MV, as well as lower levels on spells like Divination, Greater Scrying, as WELL as Holy Sword. Archivist is a great all around buffer and debuffer. It's got a great selection of excellent buffs, and the domains offer a slew of debuffs, and BC. I also love Radiant Assault and Rejection for great lols.

DavidWL

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2009, 05:15:46 AM »
Where are Heartfire Fanner and Mythic Exemplar from?

heartfire fanner is from Dragon Magazine, issue 314

Best,
David
Some Cool Quotes:  [spoiler]
Quote from: unknown
Non-PC activities like out of combat healing should be left to wands and NPCs. It's not fun to play a walking wand of CLW. Likewise, being a combat wall is not a viable PC role. A Wall of Force could do that.

-Sort of, but you left out the important note that a Wall of Force does it better.

Quote from: Runestar / skydragonknight
The most powerful character is the one that you actually get to play.

Quote from: Operation Shoestring
I often have to remind people not to underrate divination.  The ability to effectively metagame without actually metagaming beats the ability to set things on fire more times than not.
[/spoiler]
DavidWL's Random Build Archive

Omen of Peace

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2009, 07:16:29 AM »
Regarding Gestalt play, just keep in mind there can't be a level with prestige classes on both sides.

So that'd be Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/Wizard 10 // Archivist 10/Geomancer 10 under strict Gestalt rules. Much more is possible if your DM bends the rules, of course.
Sure, that's why I didn't indicate levels - every DM does Gestalt differently. Note that you can do
Wizard 5/War Weaver 5/X // Archivist 3/Geomancer 2/Archivist +5/Geomancer +8
which blooms earlier.

I'm doing just fine with an Archivist10/Contemplative3/Sacred Exorcist 1. Get cool shit like Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Chained GMW, Reached Chained MV, as well as lower levels on spells like Divination, Greater Scrying, as WELL as Holy Sword. Archivist is a great all around buffer and debuffer. It's got a great selection of excellent buffs, and the domains offer a slew of debuffs, and BC. I also love Radiant Assault and Rejection for great lols.
Missing out on Dread Secret (Archivist 11) when you went all the way to Archivist 10 is a shame though ; but otherwise I agree with your post.

@Caelic: I've always loved that Weaver-Recaster build of yours - very elegant. It does get the WW goodies a lot later than a straight Wizard 5/WW 5 unfortunately.
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Caelic

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Re: How to be the ultimate party buffmonkey
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2009, 02:26:48 PM »
If I recall correctly, wasn't it you who pointed out the possibility of casting Heal through the tapestry, Omen?  One of the great things about the board is the way other people find nuances you may have overlooked in your own builds...