Author Topic: Gatling Shuriken Cannon  (Read 3568 times)

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woodenbandman

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Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« on: May 02, 2009, 01:53:14 PM »
I'm tossing this around in my head. Some guy over at GitP asked about the BSB. Master Thrower was brought up. I got to thinking about the Thunderous Throw ability. I think this could require a bit of interpretation, but it does say "treat your ranged attack rols as melee attacks."

Build skeleton:
Warblade5/Bloodstorm Blade4/Master Thrower 1/Warblade +10(Not necessarily in that order).

End result, if this works:

Palm Throw, use a swift action to treat all your ranged attacks as melee attacks, which qualifies you for Stormguard Warrior's Combat Rhythm ability. Net of 28 touch attacks (spread 'em around) at max iteratives. More if Targetteer cheese is added in. Targetteer would bring this up to 36. Rapid Shot (if you can combine the two) gets you 38. Get some +1 Splitting Shuriken and this becomes 74, but save this for an extreme emergency.

Next round: Palm Throw, whatever else, hopefully with some TSS, to make 74 attacks. Splitting for 148. Each one deals 1d2 + whatever amount of touch attacks you made last round times 5. assuming that you did 38 last round, each one deals 191.5 average damage (on a single opponent. Against multiple opponents, the damage/attack equation is divided up). Let's say you fight 5 guys, so you spread out your 38 attacks evenly, and you did 7 attacks on each. Each one of your potential 148 attacks will deal 36.5 damage. Or, if you used Splitting Shuriken (of Elhona, while we're cheesing, and let's assume that Splitting doesn't destroy the shuriken), they'll do 70.5 damage.

Now this turn you get to make 74 (or 148) attacks, each of which deals 35 (or 70) damage. Assuming you didn't go for splitting, you'll deal (74 x 36.5) = 2701 damage, split 5 ways, or 540 damage (almost absolute) to anything, assuming all attacks hit (yeah, right, right?)

Now that we're done with this little thought experiment, let's imagine, for a moment, the cheese possible with the combination of Blood in the Water, Roundabout Kick, and Lightning Maces. Combine with a single Keen Talenta Sharrash boomerangs, sized for a tiny creature, so that they'll qualify for "small" weapons required for Master Thrower. Those Throwing Wedges Thri-Kreen have would also do good. Assume a 15-20 crit rating. With 74 attacks, and 30% of these attacks creating 2 more attacks, which *MAY* allow you to do another palm throw, you will definitely achieve infinite attacks. Each critical threat and/or hit gives you 4 more attacks.

So, does this beat the 1d2 Crusader? It's accessible at level 10, but go to level 20 for maximum effect.

The one hiccup in this build is the exact wording on Thunderous Throw. I can't tell if it actually allows you to make melee attacks at a range, or if it just uses your melee attack bonus at a range. The way I see it, it goes Palm Throw and all that ranged jazz to double the attacks you can make, and then you use the swift action to turn them into melee attacks (which may or may not invalidate the "no Strength bonus" on Palm Throw, meaning that you actually deal 2701 damage + 74 times your strength bonus).

Final thought: Assuming you went toe to toe with the tarrasque and you won initiative and had a surprise round, and you went all out on your attack (Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, splitting, palm throw, etc), you would deal, after 2 rounds, enough damage to cause the tarrasque to go back to sleep for just under 4 minutes. After damage reduction.

EDIT: Palm Throw is a single attack. I didn't realize this. This could change the calculations. Each one of the attacks is resolved seperately, so they each get the damage bonus, but for actually MAKING the damage bonus, the calculations are reduced by a half. Also, I've stumbled on some Boomerang related feats. Feats that Weapon Aptitude would help out with a LOT. Overall, this looks like it'll just result in the same number of things being thrown but the damage boost being split between 2 people, and each one of them will take full damage. Awesome.

EDIT: Throwing Crescent knives is the order of the day. A crescent knife gets two attacks in melee (based on the information in the 1.6million attacks thread). Palm throwing these raises the number of touch attacks you can make to 74 with TSS. The next round you resolve damage 74 times. 74^2 x 5 = 27380, or if you split up the damage 5 ways, 5476 damage to 5 enemies. You can't get them to be splitting, but you double the number of touch attacks you make, which is what you really want to do.

Kuroimaken

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2009, 03:03:03 PM »
I believe there's a build named the Shuriken Storm over at 339 which does something similar, but uses less Dragon material and combines Bullrush, Shocktrooper and the Dungeoncrasher Fighter variant to great effect.
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woodenbandman

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2009, 03:38:11 PM »
Targetteer is not required at all. It just adds 8 attacks total.

Tshern

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2009, 04:54:16 PM »
Palm Throw, use a swift action to treat all your ranged attacks as melee attacks, which qualifies you for Stormguard Warrior's Combat Rhythm ability. Net of 28 touch attacks (spread 'em around) at max iteratives. More if Targetteer cheese is added in. Targetteer would bring this up to 36. Rapid Shot (if you can combine the two) gets you 38. Get some +1 Splitting Shuriken and this becomes 74, but save this for an extreme emergency.

Next round: Palm Throw, whatever else, hopefully with some TSS, to make 74 attacks. Splitting for 148.
Splitting twice?

Also, this does not beat the 1d2 Crusader.

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Operation Shoestring

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2009, 06:30:57 PM »
Need fire shuriken.  Preferably heavily metamagiced fire shuriken.  That guy Tarrasque you just hit 50+ times?  He's a wight now.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2009, 12:11:34 AM »
Need fire shuriken.  Preferably heavily metamagiced fire shuriken.  That guy Tarrasque you just hit 50+ times?  He's a wight now.
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Negative Zero

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2009, 12:13:59 AM »

The_Mad_Linguist

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2009, 12:59:08 AM »
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woodenbandman

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2009, 11:44:11 AM »
Splitting's not added twice. TSS stands for Time Stands Still, which also doubles the # of attacks. All those calculations should technically be halved, and then the attacks each do their damage twice.

Wouldn't fire shurikens get expensive after a while?

Kuroimaken

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2009, 01:37:40 PM »
Splitting's not added twice. TSS stands for Time Stands Still, which also doubles the # of attacks. All those calculations should technically be halved, and then the attacks each do their damage twice.

Wouldn't fire shurikens get expensive after a while?

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Gendou Ikari is basically Gregory House in Kaminashades. This is FACT.

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Get yours.[/SPOILER]

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Operation Shoestring

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2009, 04:35:08 PM »
Splitting's not added twice. TSS stands for Time Stands Still, which also doubles the # of attacks. All those calculations should technically be halved, and then the attacks each do their damage twice.

Wouldn't fire shurikens get expensive after a while?

No material components.

Yep, and INSTANTANEOUS duration, too, which is why they're broken.  Especially if you have Bot3T on them  With 80+ attacks, even the tarrasque is bound to roll a natural 1 and be stunned
« Last Edit: May 05, 2009, 07:25:33 AM by Operation Shoestring »

woodenbandman

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2009, 03:00:58 PM »
Hey guys. What about throwing Crescent Knives? Throw two at once, and get two attacks with each... That just about quadrupled the damage of this build.

Editing main post.

skydragonknight

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2009, 03:14:11 PM »
Splitting is very specifically for bows only. Let's not stretch the rules past their defined limits, only their undefined limits ;)
It always seems like the barrels around here have something in them.

woodenbandman

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Re: Gatling Shuriken Cannon
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2009, 08:08:49 PM »
Hmm. Thanks' i'd forgotten/didn't know that. It doesn't matter, a pair of crescent knives is enough.