Author Topic: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level  (Read 4001 times)

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Rebel7284

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Re: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2009, 04:05:38 PM »
Really solid fog is as simple as divide and conquer.
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veekie

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Re: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level
« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2009, 10:41:32 PM »
Not dissin' the fogs, it's more of a party issue. I get the idea with the fogs and the "lock down" part is very cool. Lovin' the idea that I can dictate which enemies can attack (or have reduced effectiveness outside the fog, etc...) but what I don't see happening is my party being able to actually do much to the critters that are in the fogs / clouds (at least the fogs / clouds that obscure vision). Obviously I'll have means to damage whatever is in the clouds / fogs!

I ust need to spend a bit more time reading / thinking about how to creatively use the spells.

Thanks again everyone.



This depends a lot on party composition, but generally speaking, enemies outnumber you, and fogging them into immobility goes a long long way towards preventing them from using those extra actions against you. Also, any melee oriented party highly appreciates such things, drop a fog when a melee spec and a ranged spec are in it, and theres no question who comes out ahead. Remember, you don't need to be able to attack ALL the enemies at the same time, removing a number of them from the fight while your buddies polish off those outside the fog is one of the main basis's of the GOD wizard's battlefield control. Turn group combats into gankfests where the fighter and rogue flank and take out enemies that escape from your corralling spells.
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mans0011

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Re: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level
« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2009, 12:46:32 AM »
Initiate of the Seven-fold Veil is a great prestige class from Complete Mage. Probably the best in that book if you're going for a full PrC. It requires a few useless feats but it's an amazingly defensive class. Its abilities are pretty much unparalleled. If you can... ask your DM if you can use the Alternative Class Feature from Complete Divine called Spontaneous Divination. It's SO worth it. Other than that... dunno what to tell you.
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Soda

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Re: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level
« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2009, 10:08:31 AM »
Initiate of the Seven-fold Veil is a great prestige class from Complete Mage. Probably the best in that book if you're going for a full PrC. It requires a few useless feats but it's an amazingly defensive class. Its abilities are pretty much unparalleled. If you can... ask your DM if you can use the Alternative Class Feature from Complete Divine called Spontaneous Divination. It's SO worth it. Other than that... dunno what to tell you.
Initiate7F is Comp Arcane, I think. And spont divination comp Champ.

RobbyPants

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Re: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2009, 10:23:53 AM »
Not dissin' the fogs, it's more of a party issue. I get the idea with the fogs and the "lock down" part is very cool. Lovin' the idea that I can dictate which enemies can attack (or have reduced effectiveness outside the fog, etc...) but what I don't see happening is my party being able to actually do much to the critters that are in the fogs / clouds (at least the fogs / clouds that obscure vision).
While it is often hard for non-casters to do much to people in the fog clouds, it's not always an issue.  Just a few examples:

Obscuring Mist - This is really used mostly for defensive maneuvering than anything else.  Not directly offensive.

Fog Cloud - This is more to simply confuse your enemies and restrict what they can do.  It's not much of an offense, and unless you're looking to buy time, it's not very useful against a single enemy.  It's more to confound a few enemies while you deal with the rest.  As Rebel said: divide and conquer

Stinking Cloud - This is probably your first "offensive" cloud spell.  It has all the benifits of Fog Cloud, plus it forces repeated Fort saves to avoid being nauseated.  Nauseated opponents can only take move actions!  So, they're probably going to do everything they can to get out ASAP.  This helps the non-casters in that they can ready actions to target people as they leave the cloud, if they're on the right side of it.  If you're lucky, they will have failed a save in the cloud and be shut down for several rounds after they immerge.

Solid Fog - As mentioned earlier, simple divide and conqure.  Two very important things of note: no spell resistance and no save!  So, barring any form of teleportation or etheral travel, someone caught in the middle of this thing will stay inside for three rounds and there's nothing they can do about it.

Cloudkill - All the benifits of Fog Cloud, plus it really kills things quite nicely.  Even more powerful foes risk Con damage, which deals more HP damage the more hit dice they have.  Also, it makes them increasingly more likely to fail future saves.  The only downside is that this fog moves, so you can't stick guys in place with Web and hit them with this cloud for more than a few rounds, unless you find a way to contain the fog.

Acid Fog - All the goodies of Solid Fog plus some great damage.

Also, note that many other good Conjuration spells have similar 20-foot radius area of effects, and they work well together.  Web and Black Tenticles are two great examples.  Glitterdust is rediculously cool, but it only has a 10-foot radius.  It's too bad you don't have access to Complete Arcane, because the Sculpt Spell feat is really wonderful for these types of things.
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Eldariel

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Re: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2009, 10:57:55 AM »
Master Specialist isn't really that impressive a PrC here. It's a great "filler" PrC in that it offers a bunch of handy stuff (it's a great main if you build a counterspeller, but beyond that...) for very little cost and is enterable early, but you'll want a main PrC that gives you some bang - Master Conjurer's level 10 ability is fairly awesome (it's like a free Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken), but other than that it's kinda mehhish. If you're limited to one PrC, I'd ride those Wizard bonus feats/ACFs instead and go for a bigger PrC. In this case, I'd go Loremaster. Can't overemphasize the ability to give your familiar max UMD ranks in an environment without the "Imbue Familiar with Spell Ability"-spell. Of course, if you pick Improved Familiar, you can also have all manners of fun with Polymorph.

Furthermore, you'll get a feat-free entry (as you get a feat right into the class) and get a "free" Skill Focus: Knowledge in the process. This is handy 'cause succeeding that Knowledge-check can be the most important thing you do in any given encounter - knowing what you're up against means you know how to make that ticking stop. Of course, the best PrC in the books allowed is Red Wizard of Thay, but I have a sneaking suspicion your DM will be vetoing that one.


If Polymorphing is allowed, I'd go good ol' Transmuter, mostly for the Spell Versatility ACF on level 5. You could even go Focused Transmuter and utilize that free spell to gain the clinch spell from whatever school you're giving up ((Greater) Dispel Magic from Abjuration, Enervation from Necromancy, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere/Contingency from Evocation or (Greater) Heroism from Enchantment, for example). Abjuration has maybe two worthwhile spells, something you can easily pick up with Spell Versatility, so just ban Abjuration (picking Greater Dispel Magic & maybe Anti-Magic Field for Spell Versatility eventually), Enchantment and Evocation (provided you use Shadow Evocation-line to replicate your Contingencies, Walls of Force, Resilient Spheres and so on).

Hell, even Transmutable Memory isn't all that bad. If you're a Focused Specialist, you're still getting some extra slots, and the ability to effectively prepare only higher level slots when that suits your purposes is pretty handy to be honest. The uninterrupted concentration-bit can be a bit annoying though, but you can lose specialist slots to prepare non-specialist spells.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2009, 10:59:48 AM by Eldariel »

woodenbandman

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Re: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level
« Reply #26 on: April 17, 2009, 11:02:24 AM »
Since you're going mostly core, don't forget to get a way to get those really important evocation spells: Forcecage, Contingency, and I think Prismatic Sphere, though that one could be abjuration.

For your party, I suggest a Transmutation focus with secondary Conjuration and Abjuration. You could drop any number of schools, I suggest Necromancy, because you'll likely have enough debuffs with Transmutation, and then pick one or two of the following: Evocation, Enchantment, Illusion. I suggest keeping illusion since it has great buffs, and more importantly it has Shadow Evocation and Shades. That'll help you get some good evocations. It's sad to lose enchantment, but eh.

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Re: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level
« Reply #27 on: April 17, 2009, 12:37:03 PM »
Wow, the great advice continues! I need to split for bit and will read it all more carefully but I have real quick question....

What is ACF (as mentioned by Eldariel in the sentence)?

"If Polymorphing is allowed, I'd go good ol' Transmuter, mostly for the Spell Versatility ACF on level 5..."

FYI, I am really leaning towards Focused Transmuter that bars evo/ech/nec. I can use spells CM, PBHII and SpC.

Anyway, gotta head out, thanks again!

Thanks again, more to follow I am sure :)

Risada

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Re: Need help w/ severely restricted Wizard build, starting at 9th level
« Reply #28 on: April 17, 2009, 12:39:31 PM »
Wow, the great advice continues! I need to split for bit and will read it all more carefully but I have real quick question....

What is ACF (as mentioned by Eldariel in the sentence)?

Alternate Class Feature... the one mentioned can be found here...