Hey I really need help with this one (Requested Dante build)

[woodenbandman]

Starting level is 6, so capstones are less important. I'll print out the maneuvers and explain them all to him, so that he's not horribly confused. I'm the DM, so if you want something allowed, run it by me. Avoid using Roundhouse Kick and Lightning Maces shenanigans because I have a group that I want to show that ToB isn't totally wtfbroken and I don't want to do that shit.

Flaws are in, Traits are in, 2 of each. Anyone with DMC experience would be helpful, I'm looking at good old Youtube, and it's helpful. so far, I'm liking the possibility of a lot of Tiger Claw, Diamond Mind, maybe a bit of Desert Wind and Setting Sun. So Swordsage might actually be better for this guy, but we shall see.

DANTEDIT: Crossbow archery is officially impossible. Period. I've told the guy that he needs to choose between being very good at one or the other. I'm editing in right now with a full progression, tell me what you guys think.

He's decided that melee >> close combat. I'm trying to work out how Battle Jump's going to work out. Right now, he should have the jump check to battle jump on most things, with his 9 ranks + 4 strength + 2 synergy + a ring of Jumping. Battle Jump is mostly a useful tactic for closing the distance, because he doesn't have Acrobatic Charge, meaning he wouldn't be able to avoid any AoOs he might provoke if he tried to battle jump in close quarters. So right now his tactics look like Battle Jump in, open up with a x2 damage charge, then rip on the enemy with a Flashing Sun full attack OR a Rabid Wolf Strike or something. At higher levels, Time Standing Still will activate and do good things.

[spoiler]
Human or Tiefling(LA bought off) Swordsage 5: 18 12(16) 14 10 16 8(6) (weird point buy with a 1 to 1 ratio)

Feats

Maneuvers(Stances):
Desert Wind
Diamond Mind
Setting Sun
Shadow Hand
Stone Dragon
Tiger Claw

Progression:
Swordsage 1 Weapon Focus Diamond Mind, Adaptive Style(Or Leap of Heavens), Battle Jump, Power Attack Burning Blade, Counter Charge, Mighty Throw, Charging Minotaur, Sudden Leap, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Blood In The Water
Swordsage 2 Stone Bones, Island of Blades
Swordsage 3 Improved Bull Rush, Baffling Defense
Swordsage 4 STR + 1 Flashing Sun, Charging Minotaur -> Rabid Wolf Strike
Swordsage 5 Insightful Strike, Leaping Dragon Stance
Swordsage 6 Leap AttackMighty Throw -> Devastating Throw, Soaring Raptor Strike

Planned for the future:

Swordsage 7 Bounding Assault
Swordsage 8 STR +1, Burning Blade -> Searing Blade,
Swordsage 9 Unnerving Calm, Improved Two Weapon Fighting Pouncing Charge,
Swordsage 10 Rabid Wolf Strike -> Dancing Mongoose, Pearl of Black Doubt or Leaping Dragon or Dancing Blade Form[/i]
Swordsage 11 Rabid Bear Strike
Swordsage 12 STR+1, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Insightful Strike -> Greater Insightful Strike
Swordsage 13 Run, Hamstring Attack
Swordsage 14 Sudden Leap -> Quicksilver Motion
Swordsage 15 Robilar's Gambit, Adamantine Hurricane
Swordsage 16 STR+1, Dancing Mongoose -> Raging Mongoose, Wolf Pack Tactics
Swordsage 17 Iron Will, Time Stands Still
Swordsage 18 Double Hit, Moment of Perfect Mind -> Diamond Defense
Swordsage 19 Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip
Swordsage 20 STR+1, Exorcism of Steel -> Lightning Throw

This is shaping up to be a bit of a 'hood build, but without the complicated multiclassing. Battle Jump is an obvious choice, with shock trooper and shit like that. I'm not going to do the whole "multipouncer" thing unless the rest of the party gets way way way OP, which is very unlikely. Multiple charges would be possible, though, if he used Sudden Leap. A ring/boots of jumping is in this guy's future, because jumping is awesome. Battle Jump, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, and maneuvers. [/spoiler]

[Operation Shoestring]

capeable of dual wield with guns and use one long sword
use guns in long range and will use a long sword when the enemy is 20 feet close "

This sounds like the worst idea ever.  TWF ranged *and* THF a sword?  That's a lot of feats.  *sigh*  maybe some screwy mix of Artificer or Binder (for the twin wand action) and Warblade?

[fliprushman]

I don't know if you have enough feats or abilities to get the best out of dual wielding guns and getting the best out of their range, especially with a ToB class.  Maybe two levels of Ranger, two levels of Fighter, and the rest Warblade to make sure he has enough room to work with.

Progression:
Str 15+ Dex 15+
1) Warblade 1: Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus(hand crossbow)(b), Point Blank Shot(Flaw), Rapid Reload
2) Fighter 1: Quick Draw
3) Ranger 1: Precise Shot
4) Ranger 2: Rapid Shot
5) Fighter 2: Evasive Reflexes
6) Warblade 2: Manyshot

Maneuvers and stances
Wolf Fang strike
Sudden Leap
Moment of Perfect Mind
Punishing Stance

Now I apologize for the not to great use of feats and maneuvers, but this is what I could come up with on short notice.  But I think it lays out a good frame to work with and that is what I was really after.

[Straw_Man]

  Why don't you give us an idea of how your treating guns in your world Band. Are they single shot, how long to reload and what range. Would you use bow/crossbow feats on them? And I'd ixnay the ranger, gets one relevant feat and skills vs. lots of feats.

  Something like this maybe, Warblade 1/ Drow ACF Fighter 1/ major Demon bloodline 1/ Fighter +1/ Warblade 1/ Bloodline +1

  Only 4th level due to Bloodline but TOB synergizes well it it, especially if you multiclass more, but right now you have a MIL of 6 and Power Attack, +1 Strength and a ton of flavour.

  Cheers!

[woodenbandman]

Ah, how'd I forget. Guns = Crossbows, but downsized one category. Hand crossbow is still a light weapon, Light crossbow is one handed, heavy is two handed and works like a light crossbow. Same feats, same stuff. I have one character in the world who quick draws pistols on round one with Sneak Attack and/or Iaijutsu for megadamage.

Indeed it does look impossible to make the dual-wielding of guns functional with the swordage. He could actually take his iterative attacks without technically two weapon fighting, and have Quick Draw so he could reload his guns. And I note the Warblade love for Dante, but I think that his character is actually fit better with a swordsage, because as a swordsage he uses all 6 swordsage schools to some degree. Shadow Hand a bit, Setting Sun, Diamond Mind, Desert Wind, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw. Warblade gets White Raven, which he wouldn't use, and Iron Heart, which has Iron Heart Surge, but not much else a Swordsage doesn't get. Plus the swordsage gets more maneuvers.

I think I'd like to request a swordsage build for this. Drop the Two weapon fighting, that's impossible to swing with such low BAB and such.

I'll post my idea of the build, and see what you all think about it.

[Brainpiercing]

Hmm... I think if you want to make Dante you can do it as a factotum/something, but it won't be a continuous hitter.

The question is always where to get the damage, and as you said yourself, you could do the gun thing with quickdraw and Iajutsu focus. Now the sword part of that also only needs quickdraw for one decisive attack at least.
Of course, extra actions go a long way into doing more iajutsu attacks, so it'll be possible for him to also be quite good in melee.

So the build looks something like this:

Human(or whatever bonus feat race) Factotum 6, Int>Dex=con>everything else.
TWF, quickdraw, FOI, FOI (flaws),
FOI,
FOI
Everything else is entirely open, since that'll be easily enough IP to last a normal fight. All the combat things are covered, IMHO, because all you can do everything on your terms.

[jameswilliamogle]

Dante, L3 Aristocrat...  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Hicks

[woodenbandman]

That was... truly... the most helpful thing I've heard all day. Really.

Thanks for the idea Brainpiercing but I don't think it quite covers the flavor of Dante, with his airjuggles and such.

[Brainpiercing]

That was... truly... the most helpful thing I've heard all day. Really.

Thanks for the idea Brainpiercing but I don't think it quite covers the flavor of Dante, with his airjuggles and such.

Oh, certainly not at THIS point, but you know, Initiator classes really like being dipped or entered late. All you need is the Factotum base up to Lvl8. I would think that you can't expect a L6 character to portrait him correctly. You can still be a Factotum8/Warblade12, which is arguably just as strong as getting Time Stands Still occasionally .

[woodenbandman]

Possibly, but this way is simpler. I'm looking for a way to capture the essence of dante's high-flying fighting style. It looks like it's turning into a 'hood' build, with some battle jump charges, some maneuvers that add some damage, and such. Maneuvers are here mainly for defense (counters), mobility (boosts), and added damage (more boosts). A few strikes are here for getting a bunch of attacks; I'm aiming at Adamantine Hurricane, Time Standing Still, Raging Mongoose, Flashing Sun.

I'm trying to get a versatile build here. Shock Trooper kicks in at level 9, and until then we have Battle Jump.

[Prime32]

Thanks for the idea Brainpiercing but I don't think it quite covers the flavor of Dante, with his airjuggles and such.

For airjuggles...

Enter the Island of Blades stance and use a Setting Sun throw to send an enemy 10ft up. This movement provokes an AoO from you.

[Risada]

Thanks for the idea Brainpiercing but I don't think it quite covers the flavor of Dante, with his airjuggles and such.

For airjuggles...

Enter the Island of Blades stance and use a Setting Sun throw to send an enemy 10ft up. This movement provokes an AoO from you.

Island of Blades? Isn't it Thicket of blades? 

Anyway, would Improved Trip's extra attack kick in as well?

[woodenbandman]

That's a funny tactic. I might use that.

Everything after level 8 is a leftover from another build. Levels 7 and before are the actual plan of the build. Can I have some comments on the stuff under the spoiler?

[Prime32]

Thanks for the idea Brainpiercing but I don't think it quite covers the flavor of Dante, with his airjuggles and such.

For airjuggles...

Enter the Island of Blades stance and use a Setting Sun throw to send an enemy 10ft up. This movement provokes an AoO from you.

Island of Blades? Isn't it Thicket of blades? 

Anyway, would Improved Trip's extra attack kick in as well?

You are correct, and yes. The Battle Jump build in my sig abuses this extensively.