Author Topic: Arcane Dweomerkeeper  (Read 12172 times)

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Archmage Joda

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Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« on: April 03, 2009, 05:02:24 AM »
I have seen much of the Dweomerkeeper PrC, but every time I see it it's used for cleric casting, even though it has the option of being arcane or divine. 1. Why is this? 2. Is it just as optimal to make a wizard based dweomerkeeper? 3. Is this class considered to be more or less absurdly powerful than Incantatrix?
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Salt_Crow

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2009, 08:39:36 AM »
A main attraction of the Dweomerkeepr is its ability to convert spells into Supernatural ability certain number of times per day (max 4/day at 10th level).

This synergises particularly well with DMM(persistent) cleric because then 4 of your daily buffs are in no danger of being dispelled, ever. As arcane spellcasters do not enjoy as much cheese with persistent metmagic as clerics and other divine casters (+ sacred exorcist) do, it may be considered suboptimal to use primary arcane spellcasting in conjunction with the PrC.

However, the wording of the ability also enables you to ignore any components when casting a spell converted with the Supernatural Spell ability- meaning no costly material component *cough* forcecage *cough* or xp cost (as it's a component of spellcasting).

Yeah, and the capstone ability (Cloak of Mystery) is just the same ability as Incantatrix's.

In short, it's about as much cheese as Incantatrix and perhaps more! Except for its requirements perhaps :(

Tshern

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2009, 09:10:49 AM »
Actually one of the best reasons to enter as a Cleric is the fact that you can acquire the mandatory arcane casting with a feat called Magical training.

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Salt_Crow

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2009, 09:24:37 AM »
Actually one of the best reasons to enter as a Cleric is the fact that you can acquire the mandatory arcane casting with a feat called Magical training.

Again my Cheese-fu proves inadequate and I bow in the presence of a master  :clap. May I ask where the feat is from?

Edit: PGtF, found it! And even RAI it does allow one to take Dweomerkeeper without multiclassing... whoa

« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 09:27:43 AM by Salt_Crow »

Arcane-surge

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2009, 10:20:42 AM »
That said, a 1 level cleric dip (Cloistered Cleric, of course) isn't terrible. For domains, I recommend Magic (For Dweomerkeeper), and either Inquisition or something fun to trade for a Devotion feat, as well as Knowledge Devotion.
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Tshern

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2009, 10:58:25 AM »
Both Celerity and Time domain are very valid choices. +10 unnamed bonus to movement speed or free Improved initiative. The former only applies to landspeed though, which can be considered a hinderance, especially at higher levels. That said, a level of Cloistered Cleric in the beginning is excellent for the skills too.

A lot of domains could be taken just for the domain granted power. Inquisition is a good idea as said above, then there is Planning for Extend spell, Pride for rerolling natural ones on saves (an awesome passive defense) and Oracle for +2 CL to divination spells...

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Rebel7284

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2009, 12:31:16 PM »
Neutral (Cloistered) Cleric with a Dread Necromancer dip entry into Dweomerkeeper is fun as it gives you TWO pools of turning. :)
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2009, 12:32:26 PM »
is there a way to qualify with a feat that isn't in a setting specific book.  I've been wanting to play one for a while and never could because i didn't want to be that far behind in spell casting.
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Rebel7284

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2009, 12:43:59 PM »
is there a way to qualify with a feat that isn't in a setting specific book.  I've been wanting to play one for a while and never could because i didn't want to be that far behind in spell casting.

10 levels of Rainbow Servant?  I dunno, I don't think there is an easy way.  As I mentioned before, the benefits of the PrC combined with two turning pools makes it worth it for Clerics even if you lose 1 caster level.
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woodenbandman

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2009, 01:18:44 PM »
I personally don't touch cheese like Dweomerkeeper or Incantatrix. From what I understand it allows you to get XP free wishes, which is never a good idea.

archangel.arcanis

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2009, 01:39:12 PM »
yes up to 4 per day at that.  The supernatural spell ability eliminates the need for components including xp.  It is actually more often used for Miracle since that is pretty open ended and you progress your divine casting with the class instead.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

Archmage Joda

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2009, 04:18:08 PM »
So, in theory, I suppose that an Archivist Dweomerkeeper would be a much better alternative. On this line of thought, are there any already posted builds of such? If there isn't, then I'll figure it out myself, I just think that if there's already something there to look at it would help me crib ideas from it, but I'm not asking anyone to just give me something from scratch.
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archangel.arcanis

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2009, 05:36:48 PM »
archivist doesn't get domains to qualify so you would have to snag those somehow.
Clerics and Druids are like the 4 and 2 in 42. Together they are the answer to the ultimate question in D&D.
Retire the character before the DM smacks you with the Table as the book will feel totally inadequate now.-Hazren

AfterCrescent

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2009, 05:54:44 PM »
Archivist 11 is a great breaking point, but not for this build. I'd recommend 8th level. Grab Magical Training as your first feat.  You'll need the Magic domain somehow. Not too many free domain ways to get it before level 10. One is the Sovereign Speaker (Faiths of Eberron). Dip into that and any other dip you want (Divine Oracle, Church Inquisitor, etc). So Archivist 8/SS1/X1/Dwk10 is basic enough.  You can switch things around from there, as need be.
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Archmage Joda

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2009, 06:16:57 PM »
Well, a simple foundation is all I really asked for there, so thank you very much AC.
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Tshern

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2009, 08:04:42 PM »
If the sheer ability to be abusive is enough to keep one away from a class, why play casters at all? You don't have to use Supernatural spell for Miracles...

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Endarire

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2009, 10:12:03 PM »
LG or LN Archivist4/Church Inquisitor1 gets you the Inquisition domain which you can swap for Magic via substitute domain.  You also need Magical Training.
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Takanaki

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2009, 10:41:07 PM »
Contemplative is easy to qualify for and gives a free domain.

AfterCrescent

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2009, 12:28:47 AM »
Contemplative is easy to qualify for and gives a free domain.
Also requires you to be level 10, so you wouldn't be able to take all 10 levels pre-epic. :)
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Amadi

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Re: Arcane Dweomerkeeper
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2009, 03:45:08 PM »
Wouldn't Southern Magicial work out for qualification without wizard?
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