Author Topic: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again  (Read 2740 times)

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Agita

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Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« on: March 29, 2009, 04:39:29 PM »
The deal is the following: The PCs are a group of ordinary people who have been exiled to a remote island for having magic run through their veins. This is being represented as a gestalt game where you have to pick one of the following classes for one side of your gestalt:
[spoiler]   1. Sorcerer
   2. Warmage
   3. Beguiler
   4. Dread Necromancer
   5. Spellthief
   6. Warlock
   7. Dragonfire Adept
   8. Shadowcaster
   9. Favored Soul
  10. Psion
  11. Wilder
  12. Soulknife[/spoiler]

Characters start at first level, Attributes are determined through 36 point buy, and there are some other house rules concerning the gestalt:
[spoiler]
Quote
Once selected, the character's secondary class* may not be changed (with the exception of certain prestige classes; see below). Characters do not gain any weapon or armor proficiencies from their secondary class, and use the base attack bonus of their primary class, even if the secondary class provides a more favorable base attack bonus. The character still uses the more favorable progression of the two classes for all saving throws, and any weapon- or armor-related class features gained by the secondary class (such as a warmage's armored mage class feature) still function normally, however a character may require certain weapon or armor proficiencies from their primary class in order to utilize these abilities.

Characters may take levels in certain prestige classes on their secondary class. These prestige classes must advance the class' basic abilities (for example, a character with sorcerer as his or her secondary class must take a prestige class which advances arcane spellcasting, a warlock must take a class which advances invocations - or one of the arcane spellcasting PrCs for which a warlock qualifies - and a favored soul must take a prestige class which advances divine spellcasting). The character must fulfill any class-based requirements with his or her secondary class alone. Theurge-style prestige classes (those which advance two forms of spellcasting) are allowed, but they count as both the character's primary and secondary classes, they must advance the character's secondary class' abilities, and they may be edited before play.
*The secondary class here referring to the "magic-blooded" gestalt side.[/spoiler]
Starting wealth is essentially nil, save for a set of clothes and perhaps a few small, easily concealed items. The DM has expressed a desire that characters should be young, preferably in their teens.
Magic/Psionics transparency doesn't apply. *shudder*
We can take our choice of one trait or one flaw (haha, yeah, like that's a choice).

Now, the build I am considering is an Azurin Law Incarnate//Psion (Shaper), with the Psion side possibly going into Constructor later.
The idea behind this build is that he would be very self-sustaining, essentially providing his own equipment and weapons. At first level, I can see this guy being a combat machine between summoned Astral Constructs, Incarnate Weapon, and Astral Vambraces.
[spoiler=Eww, you got your flavor in my CO!]The contrast of destruction and creation will be a recurring concept of this character. Astral Constructs are, by definition, usually created to destroy, as are offensive soulmelds. He'll be prone to philosophize about the gods' creations destroying each other by nature.[/spoiler]

I'm still undecided about the point buy, but stat order would probably be Int=Con>Str>Wis>Dex>Cha. Wis needs to be 13 for Psionic Meditation, so it takes precedence over Dex and Cha. After that, it's probably useless. Something like 14/11/16/16/13/10, perhaps.
Feat makeup at level 1 would be something like this:
[spoiler]Lvl 1: Boost Construct
Human: Expanded Soulmeld Capacity
Psion: Psicrystal Affinity (?)
Flaw: Azure Talent (?)

Should one of the feats be swapped for Overchannel, so Talented can be taken at level 3?[/spoiler]

Powers known: Astral Construct, Ecto Protection (prereq for Constructor. Choose later?), Minor Creation

Soulmelds typically shaped:
Astral Vambraces (DR 2/magic +2 per essentia invested seems pretty awesome at 1st level. With Expanded Soulmeld Capacity, this can become 6/magic)
Incarnate Weapon (Look ma, I've got a magic weapon at level 1! Even though the DM said we can't have equipment! And it can't be disarmed! I may have to start with something else though, it might be awkward for a prisoner to be carrying around a longsword that returns to him when it's taken away.)

Also, someone will have to explain that winsometastic Midnight Augmentation combo to me. As far as I can recall, it goes something like "spend your psionic focus on Psycarnum Infusion to max the essentia in MA".

For a more comprehensive summary:
[spoiler=What I've got for now]Azurin Incarnate//Psion 1

Str 14, Dex 11, Con 16, Wis 13, Int 16, Cha 10

Power points: 3(5)
Powers known: Astral Construct, Ecto Protection (?), Minor Creation

Essentia: 3
Chakra Binds: 0
Soulmelds shaped: Astral Vambraces (pending DM approval), Incarnate Weapon

Feats:
Lvl 1: Boost Construct
Human: Expanded Soulmeld Capacity
Psion: Psicrystal Affinity (?)
Flaw: Azure Talent (?)

I rarely bother to map out progression for more than a few levels at best, since I play by post exclusively and those campaigns have a very high mortality rate.[/spoiler]

So, comments, advice, flames? Anything is welcome, except perhaps flames. ;) The post is probably a mess because I wrote it as I went, sorry for that.
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jameswilliamogle

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2009, 05:12:44 PM »
The general concept looks like it'll be fine.  A couple of general notes:
Incarnates are very strong at low level, but become rather boring to play past mid-levels (thought they're still strong, even then).  You'll be very strongly setup to play a melee or ranged combatant with the Incarnate.  If you want diversity, the Binder builds are much nicer.

I'm not a fan of the Constructor; I'd try to get into Slayer, and lose 1 ML for good BAB and class abilities.

The psion is not quite as limited as the Incarnate; the choice of powers is pretty critical.  The Psychic Warrior would be a little more synergistic w/ the Incarnate.

Overall, I don't think you'll have the diversity that you may be looking for.

Some options might include getting the adaptation section of the Anima Mage to use a "psionic" Anima Mage, then to use a Psionic Anima Mage on one side and full Incarnum on the other, and either stick w/ Incarnate, or do something else.

Will this game allow for the cheese to get infinite power points or anything like that?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 05:14:16 PM by jameswilliamogle »

Agita

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2009, 05:39:09 PM »
That's great. This is a Pbp campaign starting at level 1, I'm pretty sure we'll be stuck at low levels forever. I'm a realist like that. ;)

Quote
I'm not a fan of the Constructor; I'd try to get into Slayer, and lose 1 ML for good BAB and class abilities.
The BAB would be useless by my interpretation, since the "magic" side of the gestalt's doesn't influence BAB. The abilities are nice, but the Constructor's augment to get more constructs with each manifestation is just plain awesome, especially combined with Midnight Augmentation. Of course, if we happen to run across a lot of Mind Flayers/other psionic creatures, I'll reconsider.

Quote
That may be, but note that I'm actually not allowed to take Psychic Warrior with Incarnate, since neither is on the list of classes that must be on one side of my gestalt.
I'm not really trying to be the ultra-versatile skillmonkey. I'll gladly leave that to the Factotums, Binders, and more dedicated Incarnates. I'm trying to be the guy who makes shit to do shit for him. :D

Quote
Some options might include getting the adaptation section of the Anima Mage to use a "psionic" Anima Mage, then to use a Psionic Anima Mage on one side and full Incarnum on the other, and either stick w/ Incarnate, or do something else.
That sounds like a very interesting idea, but I'm not sure it's what I'm trying to do with this character.
EDIT: Further, double progression classes make up both sides of the gestalt here, so full incarnum on the other side wouldn't be possible.

Quote
Will this game allow for the cheese to get infinite power points or anything like that?
I highly doubt it.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 06:22:34 PM by Agita »
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Bozwevial

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2009, 12:07:54 AM »
One piece of advice off the top of my head: Don't bother with stuff like Dispel Psionics unless you know or suspect that there will be enough psionics in the campaign to make it worthwhile, since psi/magic transparency isn't in effect.

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2009, 08:25:13 AM »
Azure talent is a poor feat unless you really need the PP or your DM lets you abuse it with psycarnum infusion.

Midnight Aug is just plain good,.  You don't need psycarnum infusion to make it so... though the method you suggest is legit.  You may want to grab psicrystal containment to go with psycarnum infusion though.  Also note that Psycarnum infusion is avilable at level 1 and is perfectly usable from there... you just wont get to use it more than 1/encounter.

Agita

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2009, 09:35:17 AM »
One piece of advice off the top of my head: Don't bother with stuff like Dispel Psionics unless you know or suspect that there will be enough psionics in the campaign to make it worthwhile, since psi/magic transparency isn't in effect.
Yeah, I figured as much. Would Spellward Shirt be worth it?

Azure talent is a poor feat unless you really need the PP or your DM lets you abuse it with psycarnum infusion.

Midnight Aug is just plain good,.  You don't need psycarnum infusion to make it so... though the method you suggest is legit.  You may want to grab psicrystal containment to go with psycarnum infusion though.  Also note that Psycarnum infusion is avilable at level 1 and is perfectly usable from there... you just wont get to use it more than 1/encounter.
A thought I had: Midnight Augmentation+Constructor 9+Astral Construct=4 9th level astral constructs for 12 pp?

I dunno if Psycarnum Infusion would be that great at a level where I have essentially (heh) two essentia and need only three to make everything I can use them on full, though. Hmm... Anything else I could take in Azure Talent's place?
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2009, 12:10:31 PM »
Too bad Erudite isn't on that list, otherwise you could get Divine Power and go to town as a better Cleric.


Spellward Shirt is always a worthwhile investment. Incarnate Weapon and Avatar are a good thing if you plan on smashing face without spending PP. Let your Psion side (and Schism'ed mind) deal with buffing/debuffing, but be sure everything you have stacks with your soulmelds.

The Astral Construct is a good idea. Too bad you can't share your Soulmelds with it (that would be awesome).


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2009, 02:56:47 PM »
Yeah, at first level I'll only have 3 pp, so I'm not counting on being able to summon an AC to smash face for (or with!) me. Depending on whether I can spend the last 8 hours before arriving at the island resting and then shape new soulmelds after the ship has taken off, I'll probably start with Incarnate Weapon and either Astral Vambraces (still in love with DR 4/magic) or Incarnate Avatar up. Weapon+Avy would get me an attack of +5 for 1d8+5, assuming three essentia from an Incarnum feat and that I can two-hand the sword. If we're not allowed to do that, I'll go AV (with Expanded Capacity for DR 6/magic) and Spellward Shirt, or something like that. If AV isn't allowed, I'll have to think of something else.

Now, what flaw to take? Vulnerable is almost always negligible, but I dunno when there's no armor available to offset it. There's some pretty good defensive soulmelds, though. Murky-eyed almost never comes into play, and with Diadem of Purelight I could ensure that it will never come into play, barring incorporeal creatures.
Also, any thoughts on what to take instead of Azure Talent, if anything?

Also, Constructor has been allowed (if we get that far), so I'll be maxxing one Craft skill. Any suggestions on which? Leatherworking or whatever is used with cloth might be useful with the raw materials (read: clothing) we start with, but something to make use of stuff I'm more likely to find on the island migth be better. Sculpting can be used with Astral Constructs. What skill is used for making tools? >_>
EDIT: Apparently, to get on the island we'll be teleported into a small stone room (about 40x40x20). There has got to be something I can do with all that stone... :plot
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 03:02:32 PM by Agita »
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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2009, 03:14:52 PM »
Yeah, at first level I'll only have 3 pp, so I'm not counting on being able to summon an AC to smash face for (or with!) me. Depending on whether I can spend the last 8 hours before arriving at the island resting and then shape new soulmelds after the ship has taken off, I'll probably start with Incarnate Weapon and either Astral Vambraces (still in love with DR 4/magic) or Incarnate Avatar up. Weapon+Avy would get me an attack of +5 for 1d8+5, assuming three essentia from an Incarnum feat and that I can two-hand the sword. If we're not allowed to do that, I'll go AV (with Expanded Capacity for DR 6/magic) and Spellward Shirt, or something like that. If AV isn't allowed, I'll have to think of something else.

That's a good line of thought there.
Quote
Now, what flaw to take? Vulnerable is almost always negligible, but I dunno when there's no armor available to offset it. There's some pretty good defensive soulmelds, though. Murky-eyed almost never comes into play, and with Diadem of Purelight I could ensure that it will never come into play, barring incorporeal creatures.

You have armor if you need it (Inertial Armor, Shape Soulmeld (Anheg Breastplate or whatever the hell it's called). The Diadem is a bad idea, as Fellmist Robe becomes obsolete. Fellmist Robe does not like being obsolete.
Quote
Also, any thoughts on what to take instead of Azure Talent, if anything?

Track, and work on entering Illithid Slayer to get a better BAB?

Quote
Also, Constructor has been allowed (if we get that far), so I'll be maxxing one Craft skill. Any suggestions on which? Leatherworking or whatever is used with cloth might be useful with the raw materials (read: clothing) we start with, but something to make use of stuff I'm more likely to find on the island migth be better. Sculpting can be used with Astral Constructs. What skill is used for making tools? >_>
EDIT: Apparently, to get on the island we'll be teleported into a small stone room (about 40x40x20). There has got to be something I can do with all that stone... :plot

I'd honestly just stick with Sculpting, and use powers like Fabricate or Stone Shape (then fuck with people). That, or Alchemy and rule the world by bathing it in fire regularly. Nothing says world domination like gratuitous amounts of fire. Just ask the Imperium!


[spoiler][/spoiler]

Agita

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2009, 03:24:14 PM »
Quote
Quote
Also, any thoughts on what to take instead of Azure Talent, if anything?

Track, and work on entering Illithid Slayer to get a better BAB?
As noted before, BAB on the psion side doesn't affect the rest of the build. If I want better BAB, I'd have to enter something on the incarnum side. :-\
Quote
Quote
Also, Constructor has been allowed (if we get that far), so I'll be maxxing one Craft skill. Any suggestions on which? Leatherworking or whatever is used with cloth might be useful with the raw materials (read: clothing) we start with, but something to make use of stuff I'm more likely to find on the island migth be better. Sculpting can be used with Astral Constructs. What skill is used for making tools? >_>
EDIT: Apparently, to get on the island we'll be teleported into a small stone room (about 40x40x20). There has got to be something I can do with all that stone... :plot

I'd honestly just stick with Sculpting, and use powers like Fabricate or Stone Shape (then fuck with people). That, or Alchemy and rule the world by bathing it in fire regularly. Nothing says world domination like gratuitous amounts of fire. Just ask the Imperium!
Sounds good. Can Psions take Craft (Alchemy)?

Also, I just failed at English. "40 feet square" means 40 square feet, so something like 5x8, not 40x40, does it?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2009, 03:25:48 PM by Agita »
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Sinfire Titan

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2009, 03:40:43 PM »
Yes, but I'm not sure if they can use it. They need to be able to cast spells or use SLAs to use the skill, so the DM may have to house rule it.


[spoiler][/spoiler]

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2009, 12:41:22 AM »
One piece of advice off the top of my head: Don't bother with stuff like Dispel Psionics unless you know or suspect that there will be enough psionics in the campaign to make it worthwhile, since psi/magic transparency isn't in effect.
Yeah, I figured as much. Would Spellward Shirt be worth it?

Azure talent is a poor feat unless you really need the PP or your DM lets you abuse it with psycarnum infusion.

Midnight Aug is just plain good,.  You don't need psycarnum infusion to make it so... though the method you suggest is legit.  You may want to grab psicrystal containment to go with psycarnum infusion though.  Also note that Psycarnum infusion is avilable at level 1 and is perfectly usable from there... you just wont get to use it more than 1/encounter.
A thought I had: Midnight Augmentation+Constructor 9+Astral Construct=4 9th level astral constructs for 12 pp?

I dunno if Psycarnum Infusion would be that great at a level where I have essentially (heh) two essentia and need only three to make everything I can use them on full, though. Hmm... Anything else I could take in Azure Talent's place?

Psicrystal containment.  Improved soulmeld capacity.  i think both work at level 1

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2009, 11:37:14 AM »
Charming veil's a bit borked. +6 insight bonus to save DC of your powers as a few levels of dip, even if it's a specific type of power, is way too awesome.

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2009, 07:15:27 AM »
Charming veil's a bit borked. +6 insight bonus to save DC of your powers as a few levels of dip, even if it's a specific type of power, is way too awesome.

1 level of dip and 3 feats, plus a few levels of PRC to get the essentia you need.

Alternatively, something like 6 or so feats.

That's a heavy investment.  Keep in mind that essentia is hard to get.  Plus, you can't get the +6 until level 17, and then only if you spend a feat to improve charming Veil's capacity.

So it's quite fair for normal play.

Gestalt play handily removes the difficulty in stockpiling essentia however, making charming veil very good for this build.

Agita

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Re: Agita's playing in a weird campaign again
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2009, 04:21:24 PM »
Hey, guesswut? We're using the Astral Construct nerf. Yay.  :banghead
I did, naturally, comment on the Summon Monster line. Let's see what he says.
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