Author Topic: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster  (Read 84695 times)

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Tshern

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #300 on: May 24, 2009, 02:25:01 PM »
I've heard a wild rumour that CO challenges tend to steer away from infinity loops.

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Negative Zero

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #301 on: May 30, 2009, 06:59:48 PM »
I just found a very interesting resource. A creature called a Balhannoth from MM4. 14 HD. Su Dimensional Lock in a 20-foot radius. Further, any creature grappled by it cannot cast spells, SLAs, or Supernatural abilities. Even more than that, the grappled creature's magic items are suppressed. Someone's got to be able to use that.

woodenbandman

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #302 on: May 30, 2009, 09:00:17 PM »
What's the ECL? A Balhannoth Fighter 1 might have a shot.

Perhaps what could work is a Figher/Ranger/Horizon Walker who gets the DDoor ability and gets polymorphed/shapechanged/assume Supernatural Ability to that thing and grapples the caster. Not sure whether or not the caster would always have Freedom of Movement prepared.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #303 on: May 30, 2009, 10:04:55 PM »
I just found a very interesting resource. A creature called a Balhannoth from MM4. 14 HD. Su Dimensional Lock in a 20-foot radius. Further, any creature grappled by it cannot cast spells, SLAs, or Supernatural abilities. Even more than that, the grappled creature's magic items are suppressed. Someone's got to be able to use that.
Holy freakin' crap. Now we're talking! A psiwarrior with Expanded Knowledge: Metamorphosis,  Metamorphic Transfer, and spec'd for grappling would be horrifying if metamorphed into that. What kind of ability is the one that prevents spellcasting?
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

Bozwevial

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #304 on: May 30, 2009, 10:08:44 PM »
I just found a very interesting resource. A creature called a Balhannoth from MM4. 14 HD. Su Dimensional Lock in a 20-foot radius. Further, any creature grappled by it cannot cast spells, SLAs, or Supernatural abilities. Even more than that, the grappled creature's magic items are suppressed. Someone's got to be able to use that.
Holy freakin' crap. Now we're talking! A psiwarrior with Expanded Knowledge: Metamorphosis,  Metamorphic Transfer, and spec'd for grappling would be horrifying if metamorphed into that. What kind of ability is the one that prevents spellcasting?

That would also be Supernatural.

woodenbandman

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #305 on: May 31, 2009, 01:15:34 AM »
Hello to Assume Supernatural Ability!

I thought the point was not to use manifesting/casting though.

PhaedrusXY

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #306 on: May 31, 2009, 01:30:30 AM »
Hello to Assume Supernatural Ability!

I thought the point was not to use manifesting/casting though.
It's impossible if you don't use something. Since you can do this with a psiwarrior, I think it counts as a non-caster. It's also doable with only two books outside core. The XPH and MM4. Behold the power of Polymorph/Metamorphosis! :P
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

ErhnamDJ

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #307 on: May 31, 2009, 02:53:10 AM »

What does this get us that we didn't have before? Sunder his ring of FoM? See how that goes.

Tshern

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #308 on: May 31, 2009, 08:45:33 AM »
And one would also have to be able to grapple the Wizard, which requires a touch attack. After this fails, the Wizard calmly walks away (using Armband of elusive action if he wants to avoid the AoO) and teleports. Or just kills the bPsychic Warrior.

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juton

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #309 on: May 31, 2009, 10:02:04 AM »
And one would also have to be able to grapple the Wizard, which requires a touch attack. After this fails, the Wizard calmly walks away (using Armband of elusive action if he wants to avoid the AoO) and teleports. Or just kills the bPsychic Warrior.

I'm curious what the touch AC of this TO wizard is, off the top of my head I have trouble getting past the 30s. The psychic warrior may have mageslayer, standstill and what ever a lockdown fighter uses.

Tshern

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #310 on: May 31, 2009, 10:26:43 AM »
Supposing that Mageslayer doesn't drop his manifester level. Under psionic/magic transparency, I am fairly sure exactly that would happen.

And huge natural armor+Scintillating scales helps a lot. Then the Wizard might be under Superior invisibility, have misschance out of wazoo and your sunder attempt is likely to launch around two dozen contingencies. Have nice dealing with the called in reinforcements.

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juton

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #311 on: May 31, 2009, 11:14:19 AM »
So the Wizard is going to spend two dozen contingencies to make sure his FoM goes unmolested? It could happen, but I don't think it's likely. A Wizard could be doing A, he could be doing B, since we never get a definitive build we have to deal with anything every Wizard could possibly do, not just everything one Wizard can do (which is bad enough but perhaps not insurmountable by itself).

Tshern

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #312 on: May 31, 2009, 02:02:24 PM »
Only a single Contingency is necessary and it does not necessarily have to be against the sundering of a specific object. At least I'd protect myself against attacks.

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PhaedrusXY

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #313 on: May 31, 2009, 02:59:05 PM »
The psiwarrior's psicrystal takes Mage Slayer, Pierce Magical Protection, and Pierce Magical Concealment. It also takes Sunder based feats. It walks up, and sunders whatever is producing a FoM effect (along with other troublesome pieces of equipment). It's Metamorphed into a 12 headed hydra, and has Boots of Speed. So that's at least 13 sunder attempts.

The Psiwarrior himself has EK: Schism, Quicken Power, Practiced Manifester, knows Dispel Psionics, has dipped into cleric for the Inquisition domain, and has a Dispelling Cord. He hits the caster with a couple of Dispels targetting whatever is producing the FoM before he grapples him.

I think I might actually make an anti-mage build now. Then I'll fight myself to the death.  :lmao

And I don't know about you, but my contingencies usually trigger some kind of teleportation effect... which would fail against this psiwarrior due to the Balhannoth form's Dimension Lock effect. Too bad the radius is so small. I guess we could take Widen Su ability from the Tome of Magic.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2009, 03:02:09 PM by PhaedrusXY »
[spoiler]
A couple of water benders, a dike, a flaming arrow, and a few barrels of blasting jelly?

Sounds like the makings of a gay porn film.
...thanks
[/spoiler]

ReaderOfPosts

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #314 on: May 31, 2009, 05:04:49 PM »
Mindsight can easily bypass superior invisibility, and could be gotten by making our psi-warrior a ghostwise halfling and taking the Improved Speak without Sound Feat for 20 ft telepathy. Then the mageslayer feats+antimagic grapple...

Hmm. Is there a reliable way to plant a spellblade (freedom of movement) on the mage?

ErhnamDJ

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #315 on: May 31, 2009, 06:34:17 PM »

Contingencies for teleports? No, no, no.

The correct answer is: Contingencies for Miracle (easy for wizards to get, right?). Or, failing that, make most of them Celerity. No reason to pick teleports. Those suck.

juton

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #316 on: May 31, 2009, 07:05:53 PM »
If a Contingent Spell:Celerity goes off are you dazed after?

ErhnamDJ

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #317 on: May 31, 2009, 07:21:21 PM »

Not if you're immune to daze (there are ways bwahaha).

Negative Zero

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #318 on: May 31, 2009, 07:28:51 PM »
Well, the question isn't if it's possible, but if it would happen. I don't think either of the sample builds have FoM all the time and contingent celerities and contingent miracles and immunity to daze.

juton

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Re: Anti-caster build ideas 3: Beating the Caster
« Reply #319 on: May 31, 2009, 07:31:02 PM »
Sure, for one feat you can make a will save on your round, for two feats there's a dragonmark you can get out of Eberron. I don't know of any spells or magic items that do it off hand. Like we've been saying, a Wizard may have these feat, but then again he may not, without a build we can't say.